bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Why not send him an email asking why he believes his articles should be above scrutiny?
A Prison of Measured Time...blog update (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Danceswithhorses
- Start date
Why not send him an email asking why he believes his articles should be above scrutiny?
Skybluesquirrel
New Member
I've just sent you a test comment
Thanks Dave Miller Band. Northern wisdom sent it as if from the labour leaders email address. Done it again with an unprofessional and largely unfunny play on words. Apologies in advance to Torch. I mean Torchomatic.
So someone is going to great lengths to justify Les's standpoint and entering his email address as a reference. Or it is Les writing the replies. His first comment about the lack of apostrophes is so from a journalist.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm not saying it isn't him... just some things in life are never certain until you ask
MichaelCCFC
New Member
Thanks Dave Miller Band. Northern wisdom sent it as if from the labour leaders email address. Done it again with an unprofessional and largely unfunny play on words. Apologies in advance to Torch. I mean Torchomatic.
So someone is going to great lengths to justify Les's standpoint and entering his email address as a reference. Or it is Les writing the replies. His first comment about the lack of apostrophes is so from a journalist.
Squirrel, it's all just a sign that your excellent blog is hitting nerves. As I said in a previous post, I've put my head ever so slightly above the parapet and get all sorts of crap plus some really weird stuff. The worst stuff is usually confirmation you've got something spot on
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Hmm, given some stuff that gets thrown about, then an awful lot of us get stuff spot on from all kinds of perspectives then...
Or there are a fair few mentalists in this world.
Or just one.
With lots of pseudonyms.
hill83
Well-Known Member
Ha ha! Brilliant.
Who could possibly argue that the bloke who organised a weekend protest at the empty Sisu head office was anything other than 'spot on'?
duffer
Well-Known Member
SBS - As I've said before I really like your blog, but I thought the criticism was a bit personal.
If you don't like what the guy has done then why not dispute it in a more measured way. You've shown you're entirely capable of putting together a good argument based on the facts, what's Reid done to provoke your ire?
About the worst thing you can accuse a journo of is acting as someone's puppet. It's the equivalent of accusing a cowboy of cheating at cards, it's bound to draw a reaction.
I don't know how the interview went, but if you look elsewhere on here for the reaction it appears that a lot of people have drawn a very negative picture of JS as a result. So it's hardly a puff piece in that sense.
Again, SBS, just my opinion offered without the intent to offend. For what it's worth I think both you and Reid have a lot to offer in terms of challenging peoples' thoughts on the whole SISU/ACL omnishambles.
If you don't like what the guy has done then why not dispute it in a more measured way. You've shown you're entirely capable of putting together a good argument based on the facts, what's Reid done to provoke your ire?
About the worst thing you can accuse a journo of is acting as someone's puppet. It's the equivalent of accusing a cowboy of cheating at cards, it's bound to draw a reaction.
I don't know how the interview went, but if you look elsewhere on here for the reaction it appears that a lot of people have drawn a very negative picture of JS as a result. So it's hardly a puff piece in that sense.
Again, SBS, just my opinion offered without the intent to offend. For what it's worth I think both you and Reid have a lot to offer in terms of challenging peoples' thoughts on the whole SISU/ACL omnishambles.
duffer
Well-Known Member
'Head slightly above the parapet'? I think you've gone a bit beyond that mate.
Personally speaking, I salute you for having the bottle and determination to keep at it. I've given up doing anything beyond not going and complaining on here!
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I have to say les Reids initial story did point towards the council should sell the whole lot to SISU.
This is clearly what he now thinks is the only solution. If that is the case why did he in reply to the blog suggest he was not intimating that?
Also having done that blog which I do believe probably smoothed his access to Joy ( not that this is why he did it)
I feel if he genuinely wants Joy to buy the Ricoh he should have maybe pushed her a bit more on why isn't she making attempts to buy it.
Why is she ruling out buying the Higgs share then proving themselves with a view to buying the lot.
Does she honestly think she will achieve her aims with blackmail and ransom?
This is clearly what he now thinks is the only solution. If that is the case why did he in reply to the blog suggest he was not intimating that?
Also having done that blog which I do believe probably smoothed his access to Joy ( not that this is why he did it)
I feel if he genuinely wants Joy to buy the Ricoh he should have maybe pushed her a bit more on why isn't she making attempts to buy it.
Why is she ruling out buying the Higgs share then proving themselves with a view to buying the lot.
Does she honestly think she will achieve her aims with blackmail and ransom?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It that case I must always be 100% right. Weird stuff? How about Sky Blue Kid asking you on a date? Nothing weirder than that.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Because they have tried that, agreed the deal with Highs only for the council to veto it:
“Then, at the end of November, we were told the council wouldn’t approve the deal over the 50 per cent Higgs share.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Because they have tried that, agreed the deal with Highs only for the council to veto it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
My understanding is it could only have been vetoed at a full council vote, something that would have been public knowledge.
If sisu have evidence of this secret, cross party meeting then they should release it.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, not all council business is public knowledge
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I seen that it would have to go to full council, I'll admit I'm not 100% certain on that, just something I seem to remember Mutton mumbling.
As we all know it required a full council to allow Higgs to buy into it, so you would assume the same would apply to sisu?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, they may have delegated responsibility to senior officers to do that. The Higgs deal was a fair few years ago.
Also even some business discussed and voted by full council is private
Astute
Well-Known Member
You are always on the side of SISU whilst saying your thoughts are neutral.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Because they have tried that, agreed the deal with Highs only for the council to veto it:
“Then, at the end of November, we were told the council wouldn’t approve the deal over the 50 per cent Higgs share.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
She says that ACL claim she never came back to complete the deal.
She now thinks she has the upper hand by kidnapping the club.
If she really wants the Ricoh why not go back to the HOT and try again buy offer a little less.
Then prove themselves responsible owners so the council have no reason to say no to the rest
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Les Reid clearly doesn't understand the fans feelings on this. He accuses John Fletcher of being "dogmatically hostile to the club’s owners. No good misleading by pretending otherwise".
I think Les will find the overwhelming majority of city fans are hostile to the clubs owners. They have taken our club from us.
I for one am proud of my hostility towards them.
I think Les will find the overwhelming majority of city fans are hostile to the clubs owners. They have taken our club from us.
I for one am proud of my hostility towards them.
The AEHC had signed an HoT with Sisu Capital in June 2012. This was not taken forward by Sisu Capital and no agreement to sell could therefore be reached. There was no request by the AEHC to the Council to sell to Sisu Capital and there was therefore no veto exercised by the Council. What may or may not have been said informally to Seppala by somebody from the Council has not been shared with the AEHC by either the Council or Sisu Capital. It requires a decision by the full Council to agree or veto a sale of the AEHC shares in ACL, and for that matter the sale of the Council's shares similarly requires a decision of the Trustees of the AEHC.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No reason to doubt pwkh facts and les Reid. to be taken seriously, should have asked the question of seppalla. It is so frustrating to go over old ground when we have a problem that needs resolving!!
Coventry City to be Coventry city need to play in Coventry, absolute non negotiable for 90% of current/former fans.
Just asking the question but what would people class as in coventry.if it was brandon I'd glady travel there . It's ok for coventry bees.? Land up by warwick uni is where coventy sporting used to play.if we don't get the ricoh then you'll have a choice to make, stop going to home games all together or go to the new ground.if it is built say at brandon then for the sake of a few more minutes travelling would you stop going ? Club and ground as one makes a better prospect to sell and the club would be better off than we were at the ricoh.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Thanks PWKH
So Joy Seppala failed to buy half because the council would not agree to it
Even though that takes a full council vote so that never happened.
Also did SISU deny that Joy Seppala said she would only return to the Ricoh on her terms by buying it at that last meeting?
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think you have to bear in mind a few points when considering a new ground owned by the Club
- yes it gives the club more income streams but it also gives them more costs some of which are fixed others that are variable. It might improve the FFP but the logic of having 60% of say £1m increase in Turnover is you can only spend it if the net profit on the new turnovers is 60% also. If net profit is say 40% there would be a funding gap of £200k if you want to maximise the FFP.
- Freehold never has been an absolute necessity for this or many other clubs... income streams are
- any assets in Otium or CCFC H or SBS&L are subject to a charge in one way or another to ARVO. Thats present and future assets.
- if the club buys or builds it means more debt for the Club. We are told they already owe £60m now
- If we get extra income say £2m from different sources then say some is sponsorhip (no major costs) some is F&B's 60% costs, some shop sales etc. then just for example can we estimate the cost of that sales mix is 30% and we max out FFP at 60% of Turnover that leaves 10% to pay interest on loans and to pay down those loans - £200k to pay interest and capital on £60m+ loans.
You cant change the cost of sales by much or the interest and loan repayments so the only controllable is the player budget - and that affects the chances of success doesn't it? No increase in budget at all means £1.7m to pay interest and capital on £60m+. Dont see the debt levels coming down very quickly do you?
- So does it work to buy or build freehold for the club?
So is the search for sites really going to achieve the clubs future or is it a way to get freehold to remortgage and repay ARVO?
As for the articles, posts etc. I have always found that they stand or fall on content. You can't always get it right but it doesn't help if you then get in to a battle of ego's if you are challenged..... that actually weakens what you have put out in my opinion. The value is in the content of the post, blog, article, statement etc not in assertions of being important, or of superiority or reputation
- yes it gives the club more income streams but it also gives them more costs some of which are fixed others that are variable. It might improve the FFP but the logic of having 60% of say £1m increase in Turnover is you can only spend it if the net profit on the new turnovers is 60% also. If net profit is say 40% there would be a funding gap of £200k if you want to maximise the FFP.
- Freehold never has been an absolute necessity for this or many other clubs... income streams are
- any assets in Otium or CCFC H or SBS&L are subject to a charge in one way or another to ARVO. Thats present and future assets.
- if the club buys or builds it means more debt for the Club. We are told they already owe £60m now
- If we get extra income say £2m from different sources then say some is sponsorhip (no major costs) some is F&B's 60% costs, some shop sales etc. then just for example can we estimate the cost of that sales mix is 30% and we max out FFP at 60% of Turnover that leaves 10% to pay interest on loans and to pay down those loans - £200k to pay interest and capital on £60m+ loans.
You cant change the cost of sales by much or the interest and loan repayments so the only controllable is the player budget - and that affects the chances of success doesn't it? No increase in budget at all means £1.7m to pay interest and capital on £60m+. Dont see the debt levels coming down very quickly do you?
- So does it work to buy or build freehold for the club?
So is the search for sites really going to achieve the clubs future or is it a way to get freehold to remortgage and repay ARVO?
As for the articles, posts etc. I have always found that they stand or fall on content. You can't always get it right but it doesn't help if you then get in to a battle of ego's if you are challenged..... that actually weakens what you have put out in my opinion. The value is in the content of the post, blog, article, statement etc not in assertions of being important, or of superiority or reputation
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Grenduffy......It that case I must always be 100% right. Weird stuff? How about Sky Blue Kid asking you on a date? Nothing weirder than that.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Or Grenduffy stop being a nobhead...Now that would be weird.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
He's already answered that, he wasn't there, he doesn't know.
You also ignore that he said that councl May or may not have told her informally it was a no goer. She didn't say the veto word, I and others did
She said "“Then, at the end of November, we were told the council wouldn’t approve the deal over the 50 per cent Higgs share.”
Tbf that could have been informal discussions.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
He's already answered that, he wasn't there, he doesn't know.
You also ignore that he said that councl May or may not have told her informally it was a no goer. She didn't say the veto word, I and others did
She said "“Then, at the end of November, we were told the council wouldn’t approve the deal over the 50 per cent Higgs share.”
Tbf that could have been informal discussions.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors
You would put the offer in and force the vote.
Imagine the PR for SISU if they had submitted the agreed HoT then a full council vote vetoed it.
A fair few more fans would have supported their following actions.
It was a win win scenario to have the vote.
If you win the vote you get your deal if you don't you get more fan support and genuinely know where you stand.
If she really wanted it they would have had the vote rather than pulling out on a rumour
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Thanks Dave Miller Band. Northern wisdom sent it as if from the labour leaders email address. Done it again with an unprofessional and largely unfunny play on words. Apologies in advance to Torch. I mean Torchomatic.
So someone is going to great lengths to justify Les's standpoint and entering his email address as a reference. Or it is Les writing the replies. His first comment about the lack of apostrophes is so from a journalist.
OK, it was from him for sure
It wasn't an interview was it? It comes over as a PR monologue that was probably edited by JS and approved by her before publication. If it was genuinely an interview, then Les missed the opportunity to ask the searching and challenging questions that the blog highlighted - and many more.
thaiskyblue
New Member
what comments ?
thaiskyblue
New Member
be careful he might do a sisu and threaten " liquidation ".
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I hadn't read the thread comments until this morning and I am quite shocked. I have left a comment this morning (currently awaiting moderation) which states:
"Les I appreciate that you have done a lot in the saga that is now our beloved Coventry City FC. However surely you realise that this is just a blog and you are a Professional Journalist. People are entitled to challenge your opinion and work. I for one have been following your stuff on CET and twitter since this all started, but lately I definitely think you have gone off on a tangent slightly and are leaning more towards 1 side. I was dissapointed with your JS interview. I didn’t feel that you “grilled” her as much as you could have. You have also not directly answered if you raised the questions above and if not why not? It is no good circling the answer we want it straight and true please. I have also been dissapointed in your story with regards to the “fighting” outside sixfields where you near as damn it completely blame people on the hill. There have been several different versions of the story yet you decided to stick with one. Why is that? Why have you also decided that is it fair to attack Michael about his KCIC/NOPM page stating that it promotes bullying/trolling? Like you have asked others, please be transparent. Nobody seems to be in this whole saga so it would be nice if you could be."
If anyone has any views on this please comment.
"Les I appreciate that you have done a lot in the saga that is now our beloved Coventry City FC. However surely you realise that this is just a blog and you are a Professional Journalist. People are entitled to challenge your opinion and work. I for one have been following your stuff on CET and twitter since this all started, but lately I definitely think you have gone off on a tangent slightly and are leaning more towards 1 side. I was dissapointed with your JS interview. I didn’t feel that you “grilled” her as much as you could have. You have also not directly answered if you raised the questions above and if not why not? It is no good circling the answer we want it straight and true please. I have also been dissapointed in your story with regards to the “fighting” outside sixfields where you near as damn it completely blame people on the hill. There have been several different versions of the story yet you decided to stick with one. Why is that? Why have you also decided that is it fair to attack Michael about his KCIC/NOPM page stating that it promotes bullying/trolling? Like you have asked others, please be transparent. Nobody seems to be in this whole saga so it would be nice if you could be."
If anyone has any views on this please comment.
The Bear
New Member
Because some comments weren't published and personal attacks were made against Les Reid. The first paragraph goes into the whole 'Less Read' idiocy and ends with allusion to the idea that he is supporting JS's points of view. There's a good case for defamation &/or libel and bloggers in general really need to wise up to the reality of publishing laws in the UK.
The ultimate problem is that far too many people haven't read and properly understood Les's column before holding forth on what they think he's saying.
He poses the question of what can be done, based on the current situation, to get CCFC back to the Ricoh and goes I to a lot of detail to provide background for the answer which culminates in:
'The fans and the city must decide if they can stomach an Otium/Sisu triumphant return to the Ricoh. Of course, Sisu always wanted to acquire the Ricoh for as cheap a price as possible. I said as much in my column a year ago. Acquiring distressed businesses and seeking to turn them round for a profit is what they do. They are less than ideal, their practices do not suggest sustainability. But in the word of international property investment and crazy football finances, neither do any alternatives.
A sale to Otium/Sisu may seem unpalatable. In the acrimonious climate, some fans no doubt fear reprisals if they dare utter those words as an option to be considered.
But it may also represent the best way of seeing Sisu/Otium ultimately exit the club and the city in the medium term. It would still appear to represent Sisu's best hope of a return on investment.'
'But it may...' is hardly a ringing endorsement for SISU but ultimately he's committed the cardinal sin of questioning from all sides rather than digging further down into an entrenched position.
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