Transfer Rumour 25/26 Summer Transfer Window (156 Viewers)

[Gibbo]

I can see post up on post of mea culpas coming up if either Bauer or bamford sign

"I thought (enter name) was a crap signing but am happy to eat humble" ... or something like that

The Waghorn Exemption does apply though.

 

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[SkyBlueSteve81]

To be honest, none of our strikers are particularly proficient against teams which deploy a low block.

Undoubtedly it's also something the coaching staff need to look at from a tactical standpoint as to break a low block ultimately you need to move the ball quickly using width to stretch the defence, exploiting overloads in wide areas taking on defenders and have your striker/s making runs in behind.

We don't do this which is why you often just get this side to side pendulum swing until we lose the ball and get caught on the counter - see Derby away.

Couldn't agree more. Too often we seem to be thinking that each of the back 4 need to touch the ball as it is moved from one side of the pitch over to the other. Surely there are times where we can miss out at least one of the 2 CB's and get it moving a bit quicker.

 

[David O'Day]

Couldn't agree more. Too often we seem to be thinking that each of the back 4 need to touch the ball as it is moved from one side of the pitch over to the other. Surely there are times where we can miss out at least one of the 2 CB's and get it moving a bit quicker.

the issue is that if you play the ball forward to quickly the defensive is still in shape, the idea is play it about an try and make a defender leave a gap

if we play too vertically we'll just find the defence sat in 2 banks of 4 or 5 and a 4. This means there is much less space to attack

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

the issue is that if you play the ball forward to quickly the defensive is still in shape, the idea is play it about an try and make a defender leave a gap

if we play too vertically we'll just find the defence sat in 2 banks of 4 or 5 and a 4. This means there is much less space to attack

There is again a distinction between just lumping it forward versus quick passes up the pitch with some off the ball movement.

Slow tempo sideways stuff just allows the opposition to sit and watch while nothing happens.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The circumstances of the Middlesbrough game suited him perfectly, where they'd pushed right up looking for an equaliser. More often than not we're playing against teams defending a lot deeper, and he just doesn't have the right skills to be particularly effective against that.

BTA really has to start to make a tangible contribution to a game. I can't be bothered to find the stats but I'd imagine he started the majority of games during that season for West Brom.

Apart from the Middlesbrough game at the end of last season I don't actually remember a time where he had any impact when coming off the bench. He's not clinical enough really to be that kind of player.

I don’t know too much about BTA from his WBA days but I agree with these assessments based on his time with us. In his and Simms’ defence, they formed a good partnership with a lot of goals in the Jan-Feb run where we played 5-3-2.

For me, given that all of our strikers have struggled in a 4-2-3-1 (including Wright), there’s clearly something tactical going on there.

We need more out wide in terms of goal contributions but even in our build up play, we often pass back rather than taking opposition fullbacks and it’s always going to hard for strikers if they’re surrounded by 2-4 players in the box when everyone is set.

 

[Winny the Bish]

I don’t know too much about BTA from his WBA days but I agree with these assessments based on his time with us. In his and Simms’ defence, they formed a good partnership with a lot of goals in the Jan-Feb run where we played 5-3-2.

For me, given that all of our strikers have struggled in a 4-2-3-1 (including Wright), there’s clearly something tactical going on there.

We need more out wide in terms of goal contributions but even in our build up play, we often pass back rather than taking opposition fullbacks and it’s always going to hard for strikers if they’re surrounded by 2-4 players in the box when everyone is set.

If we're going to play inverted wingers like we do, we absolutely need more goals from them. Saka's 4 goals in 42 league games isn't good enough at all if we're serious about being a real threat in the league this season.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I don’t know too much about BTA from his WBA days but I agree with these assessments based on his time with us. In his and Simms’ defence, they formed a good partnership with a lot of goals in the Jan-Feb run where we played 5-3-2.

For me, given that all of our strikers have struggled in a 4-2-3-1 (including Wright), there’s clearly something tactical going on there.

We need more out wide in terms of goal contributions but even in our build up play, we often pass back rather than taking opposition fullbacks and it’s always going to hard for strikers if they’re surrounded by 2-4 players in the box when everyone is set.

I've caveated this in my follow up post.

It's not the total reason as I do think the strikers we have naturally struggle when up against teams in a low block, but tactics will definitely have a role to play and it's something the coaching staff needs to review and address.

 

[David O'Day]

There is again a distinction between just lumping it forward versus quick passes up the pitch with some off the ball movement.

Slow tempo sideways stuff just allows the opposition to sit and watch while nothing happens.

not true, the issue isn't passing it sideways it is that the players in the attacking half don't move the defenders about with their runs

 

[CCFCSteve]

What game was that?

Think it was one where Mason Clark was struggling and ended up not starting. Meant a team rejig. Possibly Derby away but don’t quote me on that

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

not true, the issue isn't passing it sideways it is that the players in the attacking half don't move the defenders about with their runs

That, and if you look at the rate at which we move the ball it's painfully slow which just allows the opposition defence to position themselves accordingly, cut passing lanes and keep tight to our attacking players, ultimately squashing our ability to create opportunities.

A ball moves quicker than a player, so if our outlet is to push the ball wide, tempo is everything.

 

[David O'Day]

That, and if you look at the rate at which we move the ball it's painfully slow which just allows the opposition defence to position themselves accordingly, cut passing lanes and keep tight to our attacking players, ultimately squashing our ability to create opportunities.

A ball moves quicker than a player, so if our outlet is to push the ball wide, tempo is everything.

nah, we not that slow but we can seem it due to us having to play extra passes due to there being nothing open up front

 

[Flying Fokker]

That, and if you look at the rate at which we move the ball it's painfully slow which just allows the opposition defence to position themselves accordingly, cut passing lanes and keep tight to our attacking players, ultimately squashing our ability to create opportunities.

A ball moves quicker than a player, so if our outlet is to push the ball wide, tempo is everything.

Moved the ball quicker against BRFC. Sheaf seems to slow things down when he’s on the ball.

 

[Deity]

That, and if you look at the rate at which we move the ball it's painfully slow which just allows the opposition defence to position themselves accordingly, cut passing lanes and keep tight to our attacking players, ultimately squashing our ability to create opportunities.

A ball moves quicker than a player, so if our outlet is to push the ball wide, tempo is everything.

Tempo and diagonals and a centre forward who can link the play …

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

nah, we not that slow but we can seem it due to us having to play extra passes due to there being nothing open up front

Against Portsmouth, Plymouth and Derby - all teams that deployed low blocks against us - we were painfully slow on the ball and we were often just passing the ball in front of them not really doing anything with it.

The quicker you move the ball up the pitch, the easier you can can disrupt a defensive line, which can therefore lead to space being freed up for attacking players to exploit by making runs in behind.

Granted, lack of movement is definitely a general problem at times though. I also think there's a reluctance to play balls as well. There are times when a forward makes a run and whatever player will choose a safer option. I'd rather us lose a ball trying something than losing it by overplaying crap sideways passes.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t know too much about BTA from his WBA days but I agree with these assessments based on his time with us. In his and Simms’ defence, they formed a good partnership with a lot of goals in the Jan-Feb run where we played 5-3-2.

For me, given that all of our strikers have struggled in a 4-2-3-1 (including Wright), there’s clearly something tactical going on there.

We need more out wide in terms of goal contributions but even in our build up play, we often pass back rather than taking opposition fullbacks and it’s always going to hard for strikers if they’re surrounded by 2-4 players in the box when everyone is set.

not true, the issue isn't passing it sideways it is that the players in the attacking half don't move the defenders about with their runs

You need both the ball and the players to be moving to drag opponents out of position. The antidote to the Russell Martin type way of playing is to sit back and not take the bait.

 

[procdoc]

this is why Torp is an important player, he can quickly see a forward pass and can unlock the shit teams who put every fucker behind the ball

 

[CovLis86]

Think we've got to be more confident and take some more shots, too many times passing it round edge of opponents box, trying to get wide to put in a cross to a then absolutely jam packed area.

(I exclude Sheaf from the above opinion... Please stop)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Think we've got to be more confident and take some more shots, too many times passing it round edge of opponents box, trying to get wide to put in a cross to a then absolutely jam packed area.

(I exclude Sheaf from the above opinion... Please stop)

I mean we scored a ridiculous amount from crosses into the box to be fair.

 

[CovLis86]

I mean we scored a ridiculous amount from crosses into the box to be fair.

I guess I was thinking more especially against those teams mentioned above who just completely sat in. Derby, Plymouth and Portsmouth who no coincidence were some of our worst performances. Yet it feels like if we had snatched a goal early on we would have controlled each one of them very comfortably if they had to come out back at us.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I guess I was thinking more especially against those teams mentioned above who just completely sat in. Derby, Plymouth and Portsmouth who no coincidence were some of our worst performances. Yet it feels like if we had snatched a goal early on we would have controlled each one of them very comfortably if they had to come out back at us.

Derby and Plymouth we started strongly, didn’t capitalise, then got sucked in to a scrap from which the garbage opposition got what they wanted. Very similar narratives in both games

 

[David O'Day]

The "slowness" will be solve by better movement

Take for example the game vs Bristol Rovers, KKH inverts and makes a great run and grimes picks him out for the goal. Most of last season the forward 5 or 6 players are very static and at best run sideways in front of the defence. It was promising that instead of the full back continuing to always overlap they have started to sometimes invert and underlap as this just makes it much harder to defend.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I still think part of the better movement is that central forward being willing to drop off and get on the ball (a 'false 9' if you like). None of our forwards look like they'd be comfortable doing that though.

 

[Chicken Mcgraw]

I still think part of the better movement is that central forward being willing to drop off and get on the ball (a 'false 9' if you like). None of our forwards look like they'd be comfortable doing that though.

Not to take away from Rudoni as he’s brilliant at other things but this is what O’hare was great at. His first touch and ability to take the ball under pressure meant we could almost use him as a target man and hit his feet from basically anywhere. Even from stupid things like throw ins.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The "slowness" will be solve by better movement

Take for example the game vs Bristol Rovers, KKH inverts and makes a great run and grimes picks him out for the goal. Most of last season the forward 5 or 6 players are very static and at best run sideways in front of the defence. It was promising that instead of the full back continuing to always overlap they have started to sometimes invert and underlap as this just makes it much harder to defend.

That relied on a ridiculously good pass by Grimes to unlock the defence in a friendly against a vastly inferior team in all fairness. But yes it's something we do need to do more as we often look terrified to make a forward pass.

Fundamentally though, 'better movement' alone isn't going to unlock defences when they're set up in a low block, it needs to be combined with other elements otherwise your forward players will be making runs aimlessly.

With how we progress the ball up the pitch, moving it quickly is what will stretch the opposition defence for forward players to be able to make runs in behind and thread balls in or attempt a shot at goal.

The first goal against Bristol isn't an awful example of that.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I still think part of the better movement is that central forward being willing to drop off and get on the ball (a 'false 9' if you like). None of our forwards look like they'd be comfortable doing that though.

If McGoldrick was 7 years younger he'd be ideal. Someone of his mould really is what we should be looking for.

 

[Robinshio]

I love reading all of those who think they know better than Lampard on how we should set up

 

[procdoc]

I love reading all of those who think they know better than Lampard on how we should set up

Anyone would think this was a forum where you can discuss your opinions on players, tactics etc

 

[Jimmy87]

I don’t know too much about BTA from his WBA days but I agree with these assessments based on his time with us. In his and Simms’ defence, they formed a good partnership with a lot of goals in the Jan-Feb run where we played 5-3-2.

For me, given that all of our strikers have struggled in a 4-2-3-1 (including Wright), there’s clearly something tactical going on there.

We need more out wide in terms of goal contributions but even in our build up play, we often pass back rather than taking opposition fullbacks and it’s always going to hard for strikers if they’re surrounded by 2-4 players in the box when everyone is set.

Agree with this. I only managed to catch the second half of the Bristol Rovers game, but i noticed 3 occasions when we had to chance to pick a pass forward and they weren't executed. Twice Simms made good runs and once from Raphael, the ball to Raphael was played behind him which meant he had to check back, and the other two, we chose to turn and pass backwards. When Grimes eventually did try and break those lines, we score.
It's something that happened far too often last season. You're right in that all of our strikers have struggled with this way of play. They all are the type that prefer to be running on to a ball rather than coming deep, i don't think any of them are suited to the role with their backs to play.
This is why i think Torp is vital to the way we play, for me the starting midfield (from the current options) had to be Grimes, Rudoni and Torp. Of course there are games that aren't going to suit that, but he has that ability to pick those passes. We saw that Grimes is also capable of it when he comes forward a bit more.
We definitely need some competition for Tats, we need that extra contribution from our wingers.
If it is a tactical problem and they need to ship out one striker to bring in someone like Bertaccini, who can play multiple roles across the front then so be it, i'm sure it's something they'll have noticed and are hopefully addressing as we speak.

 

[quinn1971]

Going by the friendlies so far we’re setting up the same as last season, ball out wide and crosses into the box, hopefully we’ll bring a couple more in so we’ll have a plan b else we’ll be very predictable again , just sit deep against us and counter ?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Hopefully we can agree wages with Bertaccini quick and he can be in the squad for St Pauli

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

Hopefully we can agree wages with Bertaccini quick and he can be in the squad for St Pauli

If it’s happening

 

[Ccfcisparks]

If it’s happening

Jimmy has just said it is

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

Going by the friendlies so far we’re setting up the same as last season, ball out wide and crosses into the box, hopefully we’ll bring a couple more in so we’ll have a plan b else we’ll be very predictable again , just sit deep against us and counter ?

Think it doesn’t help we are yet to see Torp and Rudoni in the same line up for. What I can see, Torp‘s influence made a huge difference in the middle especially against Sunderland

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

Jimmy has just said it is

He didn’? Unless I’ve missed it just says someone like him

 

[Jimmy87]

Jimmy has just said it is

I haven't heard anything, was just using him as an example. He sounds like the type of player we would benefit from bringing in though. I hope it's something we are working on.