12 year old raped in nuneaton (20 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The pay and conditions immigrant workers put up with simply would not be accept by British workers.

Companies won't take a cut to their profits, look at the uproar every time minimum wage increases or there is the slightest increase in workers right, so you have to work out how you deal with price increases and the impact on inflation and the economy.

We've been reliant on labour paid poverty wages for so long we've back ourselves into a corner.

Which leaves us with two potential outcomes

Either we realise the current way we live is grossly unfair and change it, or we end up destroying ourselves pandering to the greedy, who not matter how much they get will always want more.

Basically we need to realise Enough is Enough.

 

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[CCFCSteve]

It should be possible to make the initial decision much quicker but even with the current process there's a huge shortage of qualified staff, this results in a large amount of wrong decisions, 48% of which get overturned at appeal.

It's the appeals process that takes forever as it's long and complex. The cost, in terms of keeping asylum seekers accommodated and fed during that period, providing the relevant legal assistance and the admin cost of the process itself must be huge.

Work out what is going wrong so that the vast majority of initial decisions are correct and you immediately relieve a large part of the system and free up staff.

Having said all that I wouldn't be surprised if it's policy to maximise how many applications are turned down at the initial stage and just hope people don't appeal. That certainly seems to be the case in the care system, at least from my experience.

Yeah, pretty much what I was saying yesterday Dave, with some shocking stats. Something like 55k currently in appeals process and it takes on average 54 weeks per appeal. 80k awaiting initial decision, loads will go into appeal process and new arrivals every day. Totally unsustainable

Cooper is trying to accelerate appeal process to a matter of weeks (got to happen). As I said I’d have used Rwanda for rejected males appealing and/or those committing any offence during process

 

[fatso]

Countries that do that do it in international waters to avoid international law. There’s no international water in the channel so if you want to “turn them back” without France agreeing you’re talking about invading France.

That's not a bad idea tbf.

Im sure if the will was there, we could temporarily stop all immigration, (the boats are just the tip of the iceberg)

The issue i see is that I really dont think the government have the will.

 

[shmmeee]

That's not a bad idea tbf.

Im sure if the will was there, we could temporarily stop all immigration, (the boats are just the tip of the iceberg)

The issue i see is that I really dont think the government have the will.

The will was there under the Tories. I think it is under Labour. It’s pretty clear a good 40-50% of the country have it as a top issue regardless. The options really aren’t straight forward. There’s a 2-1 majority for staying in the EHCR and that’s probably the bare minimum if you want to do more than legal routes and agreements with France. But then if you’re sticking two fingers up at France maybe they get even less helpful and start happily sending more our way?

Its easy if you’re an authoritarian gulf state and don’t give a fuck about killing a few in shithole prisons, or the Aussies and can just pop out to international waters cos there no fucker for miles you need to maintain a relationship with.

 

[rob9872]

Countries that do that do it in international waters to avoid international law. There’s no international water in the channel so if you want to “turn them back” without France agreeing you’re talking about invading France.

Option 1 - line up the navy 100m from the French coast and tow them back to the beach.

Option 2 - chum the channel

Solved!

 

[shmmeee]

Option 1 - line up the navy 100m from the French coast and tow them back to the beach.

Option 2 - chum the channel

Solved!

The fact that this clearly insane suggestion seems to be the closest to a serious answer kind of proves my point. People hopped up on one too many episodes of Dads Army.

Also:

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Man charged with sexual assault after Rugby incident

Ahmed Muhammad Almahi, 32, was charged following an incident in Rugby, Warwickshire Police says.

www.bbc.co.uk

And another one. Looks like he is staying in a Migrant hotel in Crick.

 

[wingy]

Man charged with sexual assault after Rugby incident

Ahmed Muhammad Almahi, 32, was charged following an incident in Rugby, Warwickshire Police says.

www.bbc.co.uk

And another one. Looks like he is staying in a Migrant hotel in Crick.

That's quite a way to travel by any transport and I doubt he had access to a car.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

That's quite a way to travel by any transport and I doubt he had access to a car.

Its only 5 or 6 miles from Crick to Rugby.

 

[wingy]

Its only 5 or 6 miles from Crick to Rugby.

Oh sorry it always seemed longer when I was travelling and trying to get home after working a long shift in London.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Tbf if it was an option I would. Say those who are here can stay, but no more.

I know there will be replies about needing them for the NHS and services, just pay those what they are worth and the shortage will diminish.

We have poor outdated infrastructure all over the country, creeping services, spiralling debt and not enough houses. Some will blame all of that on 14 years of Tory rule, but if they're honest it's much, much longer.

Spend a generation repairing what we have and preparing for the future. If we don't it will only get worse.

I mean at least you’re honest.

 

[wingy]

I mean at least you’re honest.

He's probably right tbf, trouble is economists will figure out a way to make all those gains for us disappear down some globalists throat.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He's probably right tbf, trouble is economists will figure out a way to make all those gains for us disappear down some globalists throat.

I agree with significantly improving pay and conditions in the sectors where we're relying too heavily on foreign labour. I don't agree with just ceasing all immigration overnight.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree with significantly improving pay and conditions in the sectors where we're relying too heavily on foreign labour. I don't agree with just ceasing all immigration overnight.

It’s the same thing. We need to spend more on care because we are older. We have fewer taxpayers per pensioner because we are older and not having kids. There’s no world where we can both increase spending on care and reduce immigration without such huge tax rises of working people they’d probably riot.

 

[wingy]

It’s the same thing. We need to spend more on care because we are older. We have fewer taxpayers per pensioner because we are older and not having kids. There’s no world where we can both increase spending on care and reduce immigration without such huge tax rises of working people they’d probably riot.

There may be if they introduce a radical scheme!

 

[shmmeee]

There may be if they introduce a radical scheme!

I think well before you got to zero immigration you’d have riots from businesses and anyone reliant on the care or healthcare sectors. While lower immigration is a top issue for a lot of voters the number who would be prepared to accept higher taxes or worse services to get it is a lot smaller.

 

[shmmeee]

Just made up politics for children…

 

[PVA]

Just made up politics for children…

That silly twat stood outside Downing Street on his first day as PM and said he was going to fix social care once and for all, and unsurprisingly did fuck all about it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think well before you got to zero immigration you’d have riots from businesses and anyone reliant on the care or healthcare sectors. While lower immigration is a top issue for a lot of voters the number who would be prepared to accept higher taxes or worse services to get it is a lot smaller.

Even Trump had to scale back his hired goons dragging immigrants off the street because of protests from his fellow capitalists.

 

[SBAndy]

Just made up politics for children…

Sorry.

Social care worker shortage

chatgpt.com

Edit: oh shit, even ChatGPT suggests more immigrants.

Immigration Policy Adjustments​

• Eased visa restrictions for care workers: Lower salary thresholds and simplify sponsorship processes.
• Retention incentives for overseas workers: Support with accommodation, integration programs, and indefinite leave to remain pathways.

 

[shmmeee]

Even Trump had to scale back his hired goons dragging immigrants off the street because of protests from his fellow capitalists.

The cost of enforcement is the other thing. Could you imagine what a Trump style ICE equivalent would cost here?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The cost of enforcement is the other thing. Could you imagine what a Trump style ICE equivalent would cost here?

The argument so far is just to not let any foreigners in, though I assume that also means you would need to not let in any tourists from overseas either, should they overstay their visas. Unless he also wants to stop tourism?

 

[rob9872]

Tourism spend money and they're not staying. Id happily pay more tax if it went on service and could be guaranteed not to administrators or going back overseas. Look after those we need to and in 2 generations with a declining birthrate we'll have less pensioners and less services required. Keep bringing people in with a population that continues to age and the spiral will never stop we'll continue to need more to service more.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Tourism spend money and they're not staying. Id happily pay more tax if it went on service and could be guaranteed not to administrators or going back overseas. Look after those we need to and in 2 generations with a declining birthrate we'll have less pensioners and less services required. Keep bringing people in with a population that continues to age and the spiral will never stop we'll continue to need more to service more.

You not concerned about people overstaying and becoming 'illegals' that way? Pretty common in the US.

 

[rob9872]

You not concerned about people overstaying and becoming 'illegals' that way? Pretty common in the US.

I'm sure if that was our issue it would have featured high in the numbers.

 

[Sick Boy]

Its only 5 or 6 miles from Crick to Rugby.

There’s likely a Northampton - Rugby bus that goes through Crick.

 

[shmmeee]

Tourism spend money and they're not staying. Id happily pay more tax if it went on service and could be guaranteed not to administrators or going back overseas. Look after those we need to and in 2 generations with a declining birthrate we'll have less pensioners and less services required. Keep bringing people in with a population that continues to age and the spiral will never stop we'll continue to need more to service more.

Data is short on it particularly recently but overstaying your visa is probably the number one source of illegal immigration with a majority being tourist visas:



For comparison this is refused asylum seekers:



from: Unauthorised migration in the UK - Migration Observatory

It’s the classic shark attack vs heart attack thing. Boats are visual and feel illegal. Mohammed visiting his cousins then sticking about to work in the shop happens at Heathrow and away from our eyes. So we worry about the first despite the second being an order of magnitude more of a problem.

 

[rob9872]

Data is short on it particularly recently but overstaying your visa is probably the number one source of illegal immigration with a majority being tourist visas:

View attachment 45030

For comparison this is refused asylum seekers:

View attachment 45031

from: Unauthorised migration in the UK - Migration Observatory

It’s the classic shark attack vs heart attack thing. Boats are visual and feel illegal. Mohammed visiting his cousins then sticking about to work in the shop happens at Heathrow and away from our eyes. So we worry about the first despite the second being an order of magnitude more of a problem.

I get that, but the point was about migration in general. The often quoted stat higher up here was how the illegal migration was only 4%. Can't have it both ways. I'm saying stop the 96% and even if the illegal creeps to 10% with overstayed visas, then of current we're 90% in front, it really isn't the biggest issue. Our services and housing are creeking.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I get that, but the point was about migration in general. The often quoted stat higher up here was how the illegal migration was only 4%. Can't have it both ways. I'm saying stop the 96% and even if the illegal creeps to 10% with overstayed visas, then of current we're 90% in front, it really isn't the biggest issue. Our services and housing are creeking.

Of course. So just ban students from coming here to study, ban professional athletes coming here to play sport, ban qualified professionals coming here to do research, to work in industry etc etc.

Make Britain look as unwelcoming and inward looking as possible for a few decades as you said, and by the end of it all will be well. I’m sure that tourism won’t take a hit either.

 

[shmmeee]

I get that, but the point was about migration in general. The often quoted stat higher up here was how the illegal migration was only 4%. Can't have it both ways. I'm saying stop the 96% and even if the illegal creeps to 10% with overstayed visas, then of current we're 90% in front, it really isn't the biggest issue. Our services and housing are creeking.

They really aren’t. We need people. If we cut immigration we’d have to massively raise taxes or cut services.

 

[shmmeee]

This thread really shows how muddled public thinking on immigration is. Half think there’s more illegal than legal.



And most change their mind when asked what tradeoffs they’d make to reduce it.



People on average seem to have no issue with legal immigration:



So basically a plurality are misinformed about the level of illegal immigration and that’s driving their views but they don’t actually want to reduce legal migration or if they do only if it won’t affect services or taxes.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This thread really shows how muddled public thinking on immigration is. Half think there’s more illegal than legal.



And most change their mind when asked what tradeoffs they’d make to reduce it.



People on average seem to have no issue with legal immigration:



So basically a plurality are misinformed about the level of illegal immigration and that’s driving their views but they don’t actually want to reduce legal migration or if they do only if it won’t affect services or taxes.

What are the official numbers on legal vs illegal migration?

 

[shmmeee]

What are the official numbers on legal vs illegal migration?

Well illegal is hard cos it’s illegal innit? But legal migration is over a million a year inwards. From the report I posted earlier estimates are maybe a tenth of that illegally. Total estimates of current illegal stayers is around a million I think and obviously foreign born total in the uk is something like 16% so what 10m or so? (Pre coffee mental maths)

 

[Nick]

This thread really shows how muddled public thinking on immigration is. Half think there’s more illegal than legal.



And most change their mind when asked what tradeoffs they’d make to reduce it.



People on average seem to have no issue with legal immigration:



So basically a plurality are misinformed about the level of illegal immigration and that’s driving their views but they don’t actually want to reduce legal migration or if they do only if it won’t affect services or taxes.

Who is actually being polled?

 

[shmmeee]

Who is actually being polled?

The UK public.