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  1. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Yep, but somehow in this distopian, Orwellian nightmare that another referendum, somehow, is ‘undemocratic’ and those arguing for another referendum are neo-Stalinist!
  2. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    How very condescending. You know full well I’m not using opinion polls as a justification for a second referendum. I consider it a very likely outcome given the political climate at hand. That is, a lack of support for May’s deal in parliament, the EU saying they won’t renegotiate and the...
  3. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    The poll by YouGov found 54% were in favour of remaining after Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement was published. YouGov is the independent pollster. So both independent and biased pollsters have found the same thing. 54% is still a larger margin than the 51.8% that voted for Brexit in 2016...
  4. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Whichever way you spin it, it appears the public opinion is turning against Brexit. Be it 54% or 64%, depending on circumstance, it seems fundamentally wrong to drag the public through the Brexit process without another say in the matter. Pollsters will track public opinion, that’s their job...
  5. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Keep up with my points, it’s the second time I’ve posted that link and quoted the 54% mark. Given that May’s deal is most likely going to get rejected in parliament, it poses an interesting question. So it’s not really a manipulation.
  6. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    I’m not a pollster, but here are their findings. ‘If Ms May’s deal is voted down by MPs, that gap widened to 64 per cent to 36 per cent, excluding don’t knows.’ Brexit poll shows voters back second referendum as Remain takes big lead over Leave
  7. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    I’ve answered most of these questions in previous posts, but for your benefit. The case for a second referendum is about deferring the decision to the electorate again because of the current dissatisfaction with May’s deal and the deadlock in parliament. It is entirely possible Leave wine...
  8. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    You asked me if I was willing to overturn a democratic vote with another, I said yes. That has been established and an increasing amount of others want to have the final day on a Brexit deal. It’s not about reversing the original referendum. This is about breaking a constitutional crisis by...
  9. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    I thought my posts made it clear where I stand on the issue of a second referendum. But, I’m not going to leave my words open to interpretation.
  10. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Actually, it’s the Brexit wing of the party that has been the staunchest critics of May’s deal. I respect your opinion that we should leave without a deal. But, no one voted for a no-deal Brexit in 2016, even the staunchest of Brexiteers have to acknowledge that. Imagine if Brexit goes badly...
  11. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Yes, 100%. I would not be in favour of reversing Brexit without the public’s consent.
  12. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    You’re right, they wouldn’t, but they occupy a small % of the vote, and an even smaller % of parliamentary seats. Whereas the Conservative and Labour would accept it completely to avoid alienating its core support. So, in that event, the Lib Dems/Greens could create a niche for applying for EU...
  13. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Old ground and you have taken the argument out of context. The larger issue at hand here is that the Government is deadlocked and the premise of a second referendum is to break that deadlock by deferring the question back to the electorate. You clearly want Brexit at any cost, bad deal, or no...
  14. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Agreed. About two-thirds (2/3) of immigration is non-EU anyway, and most of EU immigration is more professional European economic migrants that benefit the economy as opposed to hordes of Eastern European unskilled workers flooding the labour market. Even Nigel Farage explicitly said in many...
  15. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    You're entitled to that opinion, but it seems more and more people think it's a good idea -- 54% of those polled would be 'screaming babies', in fact, some of them would've voted leave in 2016. 64% of those polled favours Remain if May's deal is voted down in Parliament, and there's definitely...
  16. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Government forecasts can hardly be called 'inventions', including forecasts made by this Government who is negotiating this Brexit deal. That's just silly talk. A second referendum is actually in your interests. If you voted for Brexit, why do you want a Remainer negotiating the withdrawal deal...
  17. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Here we go again... Tell me how a referendum is undemocratic? You can't, unless you want to make an argument against referendums as a whole. Which, if you did, undermines your premise that the 2016 referendum is the be all and end all. The issue of EU membership won't go away whether or not we...
  18. Mucca Mad Boys

    Declan Drysdale

    Seems like a good signing to make, hopefully, another Hyam!
  19. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Nope. MPs are elected to represent their constituents, they've been elected to serve a term of 5 years and since the mandate for Brexit is unclear hence opposition to May's bill from Eurosceptics and Europhiles in the Commons. All that is needed to justify the legal basis of a second referendum...
  20. Mucca Mad Boys

    The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

    Wales, unbelievably, also voted to Leave. Agreed with the rest. This rhetoric that a second referendum is somehow a 'betrayal' of British democracy is Orwellian doublespeak. A referendum is a public vote and by definition cannot be considered 'undemocratic'. If the public is committed to Brexit...
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