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Wouldn't go as far as that, but I would say they don't care enough. Against Iceland we seemed to approach the game as if it was a training exercise and we strolled around, even when the clock was ticking down. Lack of spirit and fight and they didn't care nearly enough. Wales played the game...

You too, Daz! Off to the Godiva Festival today. You?

Belgium are ranked the 2nd best team in the world. Wales beat Belgium. We beat Wales. England are the greatest team in the world.

I was thinking more in terms of come round to fix a fuse.

Wel, yr wyf byth ! Fi jyst gwirio y llyfrau hanes a dim ond darganfod fy mod mod mewn gwirionedd yn y Gymraeg !

Lindsay Lohan agrees to turn on Kettering's Christmas lights. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-36682401

Just what sort of outcry do you think there would be if England picked Championship players! It would all be talk of how low England have fallen and the death of English football.

I think he was determined to play Rooney come what may (the Slovakia game apart when he of course rested players) and therefore felt he had to keep him in midfield if he had to play combinations of Kane, Vardy, Sturridge etc. up front. If we are to be a better team without Rooney then so be it...

Yep, exactly that. Though without the tea, sugar and milk of course.

Yep, become very apparent. As Shearer said, all through qualifying we had a plan and a system. As soon as we got to France we seemed to chuck that out the window and chop and change and play people out of position and not know what our best team was. The more you analyse it, the more you have...

Come on Iceland next! The year of the underdog.

Exactly! Bloody exactly! Belgium 's record is pretty dreadful and worse than England's. So many times they haven't even qualified. Look at those Belgium players tonight. But .....it is all about teams, NOT individuals. Think it is 8 in the Wales squad who play at Championship level or lower...

Hats off . Beaten a very talented bunch of individuals tonight. No luck about it really. Really deserved it.

I believe it, Nick and am in full agreement. Look at Leicester. It is all about picking 11 players who will fight for you, fit into a system and formatiin and not a scenario of it just be your picking your best players.

But tonight they have shown they are more than just Bale.

England should quite rightly be as sick as pigs tonight.

Totally deserve it.

Yep. It is about building a team that plays as a team, not just picking a group of the 11 best individuals.

Think this proves that some comment's on here are misplaced. It's all about teams not individuals. Wales have players playing in the Championship and lower too, yet look what they are doing tonight. This just proves England's mentality was wrong, their system was wrong, the spirit wasn't...

Nor the air that surrounds it.