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Exactly. I've got my opinions on how things will go, (and they're not very positive), but they've got 5 years to show they can do and I don't think even their most ardent critic expects miracles to happen straight away.

But it's irrelevant. Statmer won within in the boundaries of our electoral system. If people would prefer PR, vote for the Libs as its one of their policies, (though they didn't do too badly out of FPTP this time round). I say this as one of the disenfranchised who normally votes Labour and...

Same with the big majority, wasn't an issue when Johnson won with one.

Haha! They'll be in good company with this clown

I think you're right. They've also lost a few high profile one nation tories as well.

The tories conundrum is if they go further right and Starmer does manage to deal successfully, or is perceived to be successful with immigration issues they'll be in the wrong place next election. If they revert to a centre right party, (I say revert but I'm not sure where they are now), and...

I agree, though its going to be hilarious watching the mental gymnastics of the right wing press as they advocate supporting the tories for their tough stance on immigration while simultaneously disparaging reform for their tough stance on immigration.

Freudian slip but it might not be!

Have you been asleep for the last 2 years or did you miss what the Truss budget did to pensions and how peoples savings were depleted trying to meet massive hikes in mortgage payments? I've made my feelings on Starmer known on here but at least let's give him a few months to see if he can be...

Don't really see why people keep going on about this. Why not counter it with combining the Labour and Lib dem vote? There is nothing to suggest the tory and Conservative vote will be amalgamated behind a single party at the next election.

Am I the only one only just finding out Sunaks gone?!

I'm none the wiser, but if I had to guess, I'd say one of the Housemartins.

Fixed Edit - got that the wrong way round!

Sign me up!

There's a very important factor that plays in to the immigration debate and that's the demographic of the country, I think it may have been mentioned on here recently. We used to have 4 working people to every retired person, now it's 3 and soon it will be 2. It's a huge issue, and not just here.

Unless he's successful of course!

None of their tax pledges stand up to any scrutiny and certainly not the sort of scrutiny a major party would get. Like the greens, they can get away with it given their current status but as they grow they'll be put more and more in 5he spotlight. It's trussenomics and we saw how that ended.

There's a difference between being an echo chamber and not engaging in debate properly. And I'm sure we can find posts which are,shall we say, less than constructive, from all sides of the debate, including me and you!

He would have to be fiscally far more shrewd than he's currently demonstrating. Though I'm fairly sure he'd abandon his current principles at the drop of a hat!

It's not an echo chamber. There are more left leaning posters definitely, but there are a fair few right leaning, (yourself, Malc, Mucca, Grendel, Sir Ernie). And several on the left haven't voted Labour while several on the right haven't voted tory. Thats not an echo chamber.