The PR game (10 Viewers)

[oldskyblue58]

All through this dispute the various sides have used PR to try gain an advantage. Quite legitimate and probably to be expected. Certainly the contribution made by the PR issued should not be underestimated, the biggest effect has been to obscure the facts from the fans however. Say something enough times and it becomes "true" doesnt it?

I make no comment as to who did what and when. So where are we now in terms of the PR. Just my opinion

* edit am trying to highlight what is going on now not last month, it is not intended to be pro or anti SISU nor pro or anti ACL etc ...... it is just how i see what each is doing now I agree with the approach I see and detail below for each party, in the current situation i would advise the same for each*

The SISU perspective
Suddenly very active in their PR
Social media is targetted to get their view across - twitter, forums etc
Local media given more access and therefore more stories
Fans and some fans representative organisations (but not all) given access on a targetted basis
more recently targetted more at the Council than ACL. Higgs Trust not targetted at all
Focus on the football side and how Council have held team back because of points deduction
when discussing dispute the focus is on blaming the council
more emphasis on the positive things and being user friendly despite all the "obstacles" created by "others"
more focus on appearing reasonable
to some extent stuck in repeating the past to anyone who will listen
minimum aim is to change the perception of many from SISU all bad to at least it isnt just their fault and to galvanise support for them in their future actions

Council
Aside from the offer by Lucas to talk to Seppala very little
Clearly the JR appeal legal advice has been to stay quiet
Any PR they get is from local media and generally not positive
not sure they have any PR aim although you would expect a political one

ACL
Have chosen to stay mostly quiet now
any statements are short and to the point
nothing said means no room to be questioned and no "facts" to be challenged, and no information to the other side
Official policy seems to be draw a line under the past and get on with business so no public repeating of dispute history
not particularly open to the local media at the moment
Aim is not to disclose any information about their operation good or bad

I can understand each approach. SISU need to build empathy for whatever it is they have planned. The Council, legal advice says be quiet but generally local government PR only comes out bad. ACL well the aim is not to give anything away about their operation, to frustrate the need to know.

The only thing for certain is that the PR has a purpose for each party, and that it serves to obscure.

one final point all sides have employed PR professionals to handle their PR. Are they worth the money?

 

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[fernandopartridge]

While the council may be quiet officially they do provide 50% of the instruction to ACL's PR firm (in theory).

 

[torchomatic]

Engaging in a little PR yourself there, OSB!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Engaging in a little PR yourself there, OSB!

no not at all torch.

Personally I think SISU are playing a good and clever PR game. Whether it will be effective who knows only time will tell

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd seriously dispute that, ACL have been particularly active in their PR, channelling every statement (and there have been many!) through a PR company engaged for that very purpose!

Often with key bits missed off, to skew a statement in a far more positive light than the actuality would otherwise say...

Quieter recentl;y indeed, but that's as much to be hypothesised because they've pushed public opinion in their direction through the use of PR where SISu didn't use it earlier on!

To say SISu's PR game has been good or clever is also somewhat erroneous in my view, as it's the very lack of PR as opposed to their 'opponents' that meant they lost the battle for hearts and minds early on.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I'd seriously dispute that, ACL have been particularly active in their PR, channelling every statement (and there have been many!) through a PR company engaged for that very purpose!

Often with key bits missed off, to skew a statement in a far more positive light than the actuality would otherwise say...

Quieter recentl;y indeed, but that's as much to be hypothesised because they've pushed public opinion in their direction through the use of PR where SISu didn't use it earlier on!

I Know NW ................ACL used weber shandwick to portray things in the light they wanted................ But my point is what is going on now today with the PR

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I Know NW ................ACL used weber shandwick to portray things in the light they wanted................ But my point is what is going on now today with the PR

It's not all the picture though, and distorts it to suggest it's SISu and SISU only that are trying to manipulate public opinion.

Whereas if anything they're reacting (over belatedly) to that which was put in front of them initially.

The silence from ACL atm is as much because of the effect of what has gone before, as any conscious strategy. Watch it start up again in earnest if public opinion looks like shifting.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Norman says...Often with key bits missed off, to skew a statement in a far more positive light than the actuality would otherwise say...>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Would that be like TF saying were going to Sixfields, but will be back in 3 years.....................Rather than saying "I doubt we'll be back before 10 years are up, or never be back, take your pick!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Norman says...Often with key bits missed off, to skew a statement in a far more positive light than the actuality would otherwise say...>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Would that be like TF saying were going to Sixfields, but will be back in 3 years.....................Rather than saying "I doubt we'll be back before 10 years are up, or never be back, take your pick!

Doesn;t stop the intial point being entirely valid however.

And, indeed, far more successful, showing ACL's more effective and concerted use of PR, that their statements have been naturalised far more effectively to appear 'neutral' whereas in fact a particular, partial message is given out at every opportunity.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

OSB asked "one final point all sides have employed PR professionals to handle their PR. Are they worth the money?"

I've said for a long time that the rival acl-sisu pr teams have been successful in dividing supporters. Both sides would have liked to have 'won' the pr fight outright but keeping fans divided has at least stopped either side getting a clear upper hand and meaning the fanbase/wider public opinion swings firmly behind/against one party or other. This may suit the interests of acl and sisu but in terms of the team and fans it is very destructive. What critics on here call '5 blokes outside an empty office in London' is able to generate national media coverage at no cost - I suspect the acl-sisu pr bill equates to a sizeable chunk of the budget needed for the immediate strengthening the team.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I've said for a long time that the rival acl-sisu pr teams have been successful in dividing supporters. Both sides would have liked to have 'won' the pr fight outright but keeping fans divided has at least stopped either side getting a clear upper hand and meaning the fanbase/wider public opinion swings firmly behind/against one party or other.

Indeed, to an extent.

ACL's PR has however been undeniably more successful than SISU's. It's not just what's said, but how it's said. Successful PR isn't obvious, as it were, it offers a message that makes something appear entirely natural, skews public opinion almost imperceptably... and it's something ACL have been particularly adept at, as opposed to SISU's rather blunderbus approach.

You can see in some of the statements that are taken as read and still repeated on this board, such as the offer of the £150k rent (which in the best traditions of spin is true... but they really have never bothered to say if they'd offer it direct to SISU, or even if they'd speak to SISU, until the Trust's attempts at mediation recently). It's not what's said that's important however, it's how it's said, and ACL's statements are certainly better crafted, more subtle, more effective than SISU's. They also show a better awareness of tapping into that which is most important in terms of a football club... it's consumers (God I hate that word! AKA fans in days gone by!). It's also noticable that much of what SISU have said has been in response to statements by ACL. ACL have, generally, been the proactive ones in the PR war... they also pick their language far more appropriately.

Now what that does indeed show is that arguably ACL have a better understanding of what's important in such a business as football... namely the fans, the people who you need if you want to sell something that's ultimately subjective, doesn;t satisfy a need but a want. Arguably SISU's PR failings are a fine example as to why they are in the wrong area by far, owning a football club...

But it's been a PR strategy led, and controlled, by ACL for a long time now.

 

[oldskyblue58]

personally I think that some of the PR issued by ACL via weber shandwick has been pretty poor. I also think that there are signs that public opinion has shifted

Seriously I was only seeking to highlight what the strategy on PR for each was now. SISU are active and quite rightly in my opinion, i would advise them to do the same. ACL have gone quiet and again if advising them I would tell them exactly the same.

Wasnt making out that either was right or wrong

 

[RPHunt]

Doing PR for SISU is, perhaps, a bit like polishing a turd.

 

[stupot07]

I Know NW ................ACL used weber shandwick to portray things in the light they wanted................ But my point is what is going on now today with the PR

Sorry liked that post by accident.

I agree that's what you were trying to do OSB, but in a way your post is suggesting that sisu are exploiting PR whilst ACL,etc aren't.

ACL have won the PR battle for the majority of this sad story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

 

[torchomatic]

Yep, that's what I was getting at with my comment.

Sorry liked that post by accident.

I agree that's what you were trying to do OSB, but in a way your post is suggesting that sisu are exploiting PR whilst ACL,etc aren't.

ACL have won the PR battle for the majority of this sad story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

 

[oldskyblue58]

sometimes the strongest thing you can do is to say nothing, let others say things for you or make assumptions....... isnt that using PR too? So ACL saying nothing is still using PR, maybe even still leading PR if you want to see it that way. I never said they had stopped using PR only that recently they had said nothing - which appears to be their current strategy now

SISU have chosen to change their strategy to be more proactive now

 

[Ashdown1]

Isn't one side being quiet because of a judicial review appeal??

 

[lordsummerisle]

Isn't one side being quiet because of a judicial review appeal??

Seems to be the "one-size fits all" answer to reasons why ACL/CCC are being quiet.

Though would have thought that would have also applied when the original papers were filed in the High Court for JR originally, yet they were anything but quiet during all that time.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What was the "One-size fits all" answer from TF when SISU took CCFC away from Coventry???...."We can't afford the rent"...but we can afford to pay Barristers millions of pounds to keep taking ACL to a JR...We can afford to pay PA and his firm over a Million pounds to award SISU the Club...We can afford to pay the FL £1m(Which they will be doing) for NOT building a stadium inside 3 years...We can afford to NOT make any money for 3 years at Sixfields...getting tired now, but loads more "One Size fits all" can be attached to SISU

 

[theferret]

What was the "One-size fits all" answer from TF when SISU took CCFC away from Coventry???...."We can't afford the rent"...but we can afford to pay Barristers millions of pounds to keep taking ACL to a JR...We can afford to pay PA and his firm over a Million pounds to award SISU the Club...We can afford to pay the FL £1m(Which they will be doing) for NOT building a stadium inside 3 years...We can afford to NOT make any money for 3 years at Sixfields...getting tired now, but loads more "One Size fits all" can be attached to SISU

The argument was surely that CCFC could not afford the rent. SISU clearly can (in the short term at least), but a football club cannot be subsidised by its owners forever - there's comes a point that it has to be self-sufficient and finance itself, and their argument (and I'm not suggesting it is water-tight) is that the crippling rent coupled with lack of revenue streams made it unviable.

 

[fernandopartridge]

What was the "One-size fits all" answer from TF when SISU took CCFC away from Coventry???...."We can't afford the rent"...but we can afford to pay Barristers millions of pounds to keep taking ACL to a JR...We can afford to pay PA and his firm over a Million pounds to award SISU the Club...We can afford to pay the FL £1m(Which they will be doing) for NOT building a stadium inside 3 years...We can afford to NOT make any money for 3 years at Sixfields...getting tired now, but loads more "One Size fits all" can be attached to SISU

It doesn't cost millions to take a public body to Judicial Review. Particularly where SISU have been so 'close' to it.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ "Canyouhearthedrums"....Ok!....now take me to task on my other statements!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@"Canyouhearthedrums"....One more tiny, little, minute, miniscule thing to finish........."We can't afford the rent"....but we will come up with £25-35m for a Stadium!

 

[theferret]

@"Canyouhearthedrums"....One more tiny, little, minute, miniscule thing to finish........."We can't afford the rent"....but we will come up with £25-35m for a Stadium!

Again, you are missing the point. CCFC could not afford the rent. Do you not get that distinction? Or are you saying it is the duty of the owners of a football club to continually subsidise it and not wish for it to become self-sufficient and self-financing?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Again, you are missing the point. CCFC could not afford the rent. Do you not get that distinction? Or are you saying it is the duty of the owners of a football club to continually subsidise it and not wish for it to become self-sufficient and self-financing?

If they can't afford it how can they afford to pay Northampton rent on 2k gates?

 

[DaleM]

Again, you are missing the point. CCFC could not afford the rent. Do you not get that distinction? Or are you saying it is the duty of the owners of a football club to continually subsidise it and not wish for it to become self-sufficient and self-financing?

Yes it is the duty of the owners or we will never get anywhere near the PL. Lower divisions only forever. Out of all teams up there only Arsenal spring to mind as being self sufficient. We need a rich owner prepared to throw money at us to get up there. We could then either become a force , by throwing more money at it or a Yo Yo club which reaps the sky money and parachute payments.
Fuck this languishing in division 3 shit .

 

[theferret]

If they can't afford it how can they afford to pay Northampton rent on 2k gates?

They can't. When has anybody said otherwise? Their argument has always been one of short term pain for long term gain. But yes, you can picks holes in that argument quite easily.

My general point stands - CCFC (as a stand-alone entity) is loss-making and has been for years (long before SISU came along). It has managed to meet its obligations because of subsidies from the owners - SISU and before that GR, and also the bank. It is not therefore all that difficult to buy into the idea that CCFC could not afford the rent.

SISU can, just as they are probably able to generate the money required to build a new stadium. This would naturally mean the club itself would be in debt to them, but as long as the club had its name on the deeds, I don't see this would be a major issue. Surely it would be better the club made mortgage payments on a stadium they owned and profited from 365 days a year, than pay rent on one they don't own and (partially) profit from 25 days a year? I am playing deveil's advocate to a degree, because I don't for one minute support SISU's tactics.

 

[bigfatronssba]

They can't. When has anybody said otherwise? Their argument has always been one of short term pain for long term gain. But yes, you can picks holes in that argument quite easily.

My general point stands - CCFC (as a stand-alone entity) is loss-making and has been for years (long before SISU came along). It has managed to meet its obligations because of subsidies from the owners - SISU and before that GR, and also the bank. It is not therefore all that difficult to buy into the idea that CCFC could not afford the rent.

SISU can, just as they are probably able to generate the money required to build a new stadium. This would naturally mean the club itself would be in debt to them, but as long as the club had its name on the deeds, I don't see this would be a major issue. Surely it would be better the club made mortgage payments on a stadium they owned and profited from 365 days a year, than pay rent on one they don't own and (partially) profit from 25 days a year? I am playing deveil's advocate to a degree, because I don't for one minute support SISU's tactics.

But they have never answered as to why they just didn't stay at the Ricoh until this mythical new ground is built?

The fundementals are the club is over £2m a year worse off than had it stayed at the Ricoh.

 

[stupot07]

Yes it is the duty of the owners or we will never get anywhere near the PL. Lower divisions only forever. Out of all teams up there only Arsenal spring to mind as being self sufficient. We need a rich owner prepared to throw money at us to get up there. We could then either become a force , by throwing more money at it or a Yo Yo club which reaps the sky money and parachute payments.
Fuck this languishing in division 3 shit .

Swansea are self sufficient and are the model we should be following. Rich owners throw money at clubs in the form of loans.....haven't we learned our lessons from that?


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[theferret]

But they have never answered as to why they just didn't stay at the Ricoh until this mythical new ground is built?

The fundementals are the club is over £2m a year worse off than had it stayed at the Ricoh.

Completely agree - their arguments falls down on this point.

 

[theferret]

Swansea are self sufficient and are the model we should be following. Rich owners throw money at clubs in the form of loans.....haven't we learned our lessons from that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

Norwich made the jump from the 3rd tier to PL while keeping the finances in check (although still had parachute payments I think). Southampton are now profitable, although they were still in debt when they made the PL.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

theferret...It's YOU who are missing the point. They had at least 3 chances to "Buy into the Ricoh" but couldn't be arsed. They took a gamble on us getting Promotion by selling everything that wasn't nailed down and failed miserably, and you and a few others still "Back them"...Some of you who are "Well educated"..or at least give us that impression, whilst (Maybe) being that way certainly haven't got the common sense you were born with!

 

[theferret]

theferret...It's YOU who are missing the point. They had at least 3 chances to "Buy into the Ricoh" but couldn't be arsed. They took a gamble on us getting Promotion by selling everything that wasn't nailed down and failed miserably, and you and a few others still "Back them"...Some of you who are "Well educated"..or at least give us that impression, whilst (Maybe) being that way certainly haven't got the common sense you were born with!

I don't back them, I am merely answering the specific point about CCFC not being able to afford the rent, and yet apparently having the means to finance a new stadium. I was just trying to explain why there is no contradiction on that point alone.

I could point out that SISU had negotiated a deal to buy 50% of ACL last year - agreed (in writing) by all parties, only for the council to walk away. But then, I have pointed this out many times and it falls on deaf ears. Not sure how you reconcile that fact with the "couldn't be arsed" statement.

 

[Grendel]

I don't back them, I am merely answering the specific point about CCFC not being able to afford the rent, and yet apparently having the means to finance a new stadium. I was just trying to explain why there is no contradiction on that point alone.

I could point out that SISU had negotiated a deal to buy 50% of ACL last year - agreed (in writing) by all parties, only for the council to walk away. But then, I have pointed this out many times and it falls on deaf ears. Not sure how you reconcile that fact with the "couldn't be arsed" statement.

It means he couldn't be arsed to look at any facts - he'd prefer to talk out of his arse.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Grenduffy....It means he couldn't be arsed to look at any facts - he'd prefer to talk out of his arse.............................................>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Says the man who bases facts on "Estimates" lmfao.