Sisued
New Member
Could you provide all the facts, history and background to how these deals came about so we can make an informed decision rather than one based on a half arsed leading question?
Just thought I'd ask a quiz question (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
Could you provide all the facts, history and background to how these deals came about so we can make an informed decision rather than one based on a half arsed leading question?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Remember ACL had an abatement themselves from paying rent to the council. I'm not sure whether this was passed on to the club, the 05/06 accounts might tell you.
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
actually it (the thread title), was nothing more than,
an attempted provocative & protracted barb,
i'm still trying to work out what,
'so if etc.,
actually means
an attempted provocative & protracted barb,
i'm still trying to work out what,
'so if etc.,
actually means
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Coventry, it's a trick question.
Sixfields has a tiny capacity limiting our maximum capacity, prices have had to be reduced because of the 35 miles distance from our city and we're only likely to get a fraction of the F&B revenue. Doubt pitchside advertising is included either and car parking if it is will probably only be of use to away fans as the 35 miles and our owners are putting people off. So who do we have to thank for this bounty? SISU.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Noone was asking?
Edit: Actually not strictly true. ACL asked about a sliding scale. CCFC said they preferred the deal that went ahead. Just like CCFC sold their rights to F&B income.
Besides what the rent was is irrelevant. We are where we are, what's the offer now?
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
was just musing, because anyone with a grade A in english,
i'd be surprised,
could come up with,
'so - who out if a of us got the worst deal'
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i'd be surprised,
could come up with,
'so - who out if a of us got the worst deal'
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
why only those clubs? are they the only clubs in the country who have been offered a better deal than SISU, that would seem to indicate that the vast majority of clubs have a worse deal than was offered to SISU.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Every time we talk about what has or has not been offered it's on the basis that it must be true. I'm afraid from what I can gather of all this nonsense the rent offer of 400k was offered. the rent offer of 150k and a sliding scale there after was not actually offered. make of that what you will.
We must bear in mind who is running the football club, who was running the football club and which company has been in admin and getting liquidated. There are technicalities involved which lead to accusations of liar liar pants on fire and all that, when people deny.
There is nothing to suggest ACL can't offer Otium the 150k deal and the sliding scale but they have as yet not done so I believe.
We must bear in mind who is running the football club, who was running the football club and which company has been in admin and getting liquidated. There are technicalities involved which lead to accusations of liar liar pants on fire and all that, when people deny.
There is nothing to suggest ACL can't offer Otium the 150k deal and the sliding scale but they have as yet not done so I believe.
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
thus, we wait for, honesty, truth, & clarity,
all of which, at present, seem in short supply
all of which, at present, seem in short supply
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
if the offers we're hearing about aren't true why doesn't Fisher come out and say we've never been offered that, if ACL will offer that we'll accept. Or he could just say what they would accept. He won't because he's not going to come out and say the only deal they'll accept is ownership of the Ricoh for peanuts.
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
imho, because ms seppala said so
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Er....no. I am looking at council owned grounds only. That's the comparison. Admittedly I may have forgot some. How about hull city?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Considerably better arrangement than ours - FPP rules make them a winner I'm afraid.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oh but there are others on my list what about them? Trifle embarrassed at the disgusting way comrades at CCC have treated the club?
Samo
Well-Known Member
snicker!!! (again)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Wrong answer - certainly not them
ESB
New Member
So there is a right answer, surely you're not that naive?
The financial situation has continually shifted with respect of what rent could and was offered.
The only constant is SISU practice distressing compounies to get what they think they can get. Ms Seppola's been doing this for years (back to her Kidder Peabody days in the early 90's). They use legal means to bleed the opponent, they don't need to win just keep the other party paying fees, its parasitic.
If the council were at fault if was not understanding what they've been dealing with (which they now seem to have resolved).
SISU don't care about CCFC, it's a pawn nothing more. In fact no external investor really has interest in the club. The development opportunities around the Ricoh are what they care about.
At the end of the day i don't live in the area anymore and pay taxes to them, so go on knock yourself out if you want CCC to give away the Ricoh, personally I find it immoral.
Out of interest , what do you think SISU would do with the club once they'd gotten what the wanted?
The financial situation has continually shifted with respect of what rent could and was offered.
The only constant is SISU practice distressing compounies to get what they think they can get. Ms Seppola's been doing this for years (back to her Kidder Peabody days in the early 90's). They use legal means to bleed the opponent, they don't need to win just keep the other party paying fees, its parasitic.
If the council were at fault if was not understanding what they've been dealing with (which they now seem to have resolved).
SISU don't care about CCFC, it's a pawn nothing more. In fact no external investor really has interest in the club. The development opportunities around the Ricoh are what they care about.
At the end of the day i don't live in the area anymore and pay taxes to them, so go on knock yourself out if you want CCC to give away the Ricoh, personally I find it immoral.
Out of interest , what do you think SISU would do with the club once they'd gotten what the wanted?
mark82
Super Moderator
Our ground is not council owned. ACL is a private company that the council have a stake in.
mark82
Super Moderator
Forest?
It seems to me people grossly overstate the value of the Ricoh. Anyone would think it is plated in gold. It is a moderately successful leisure venue, but also one which our council leader said would "be in a right mess" if it were not for the recent council bail out. The facility is blighted by poor management.
All these 'development opportunities' people talk about have existed since the place opened 8 years ago - the land has been marketed repeatedly, but developers just aren't interested. This idea that SISU get their hands on the arena and they can start writing their own cheques is nonsense - the first thing they would have to do is turn the fortunes of the venue around and make it successful - and for that they would need to bring in an external, experienced venue management company (and they did say they would do that). I guess people just dismiss that as lies though. It's easier that way.
ESB
New Member
So a half completed venue doesn't make money, give that man an A*. Have you seen any of the event venues around the country? Seriously wondered why West Ham and Spurs were fighting it out for the Olympic park (not for the fans). That white elephant the Dome , now up and running as the highest grossing event hall globally.
The Ricoh development zone, with national road access, add a train station is prime land. If it wasn't none of these investors would be looking at it. It's not as if we're a global brand.
The Ricoh development zone, with national road access, add a train station is prime land. If it wasn't none of these investors would be looking at it. It's not as if we're a global brand.
The venue itself is completed, and has been for several years. The land around the Ricoh has been marketed for years, but nobody (thus far) has been particularly interested. There was one planning application for a hotel just off Rowleys Green roundabout, but they couldn't find an operator to take it on so it was shelved. Of course there is some potential, but it would be very much a long term investment, but this idea that SISU get their hands on it they ride skip off into the sunset with massive profits is just woolly minded nonsense. To have any hope of that, the facility would have to be run properly (and it currently isn't - the exhibition hall sits empty pretty much every day of the year and they get one event a month on average) - and at least SISU admitted that they wouldn't be up to the job so would outsource the events management side of things.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Wait a minute I answered this it's Coventry at Sixfields. Also where's the money coming from that we're going to spend under FFP our sell out crowds at NTFC? :facepalm:
ESB
New Member
Go back and think of the Dome, transformed into the O2 ridiculed for years. Now used 4 to 5 days a week.
Your partially right about current management, but there's a lot of potential. Right owners / promotion etc
Alternatively why not explain your theory on people are willing to invest millions in our world beating team?
Your partially right about current management, but there's a lot of potential. Right owners / promotion etc
Alternatively why not explain your theory on people are willing to invest millions in our world beating team?
skybluehugh
New Member
If the arena is so badly run and lacks any profit capability, why did ACL post one with CCFC not paying the 1.3mil in rent and before CCC restructured the loan?
They haven't, the last published set of accounts are for the year ending 31/05/2012. The next set of accounts are not due until February next year.
And when did I say it had no 'profit capability'? Of course it has. It is badly run? Yes, I believe it is. That's just my opinion though.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Peterborogh were paying the council £500K, has been dropped to £300K for 12 months but will go back up to £380K the following year and then £430K after that. 15K capacity ground build in 1934. Looking at that I'd say even at £1.2m the Rioch rent doesn't look too bad. If either of the other offers ACL say they have made are true they are an absolute bargain.
According to my Hull supporting mate their ground situation is an absolute mess. Their owner has the lease, which he purchased from the council, but there is no end of disputes between the football club and the rugby club. In his opinion they would have been better off with the council retaining the lease as they are independent, his feeling is there is perceived to be a lot of bias and favorable terms given to the football club (as opposed to other users of the stadium) as the operator of the stadium and owner of the football club are the same person.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Are you saying Ann Lucas was lying when she said ACL would have been in a right mess without the hastily re-arranged loan?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
, so at least he's standing loyal :claping hands:
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
I have a quiz question for Grendal !!!
Is Ccfc worth more now that we play in northampton or would we be worth more playing at the Ricoh ?
Is Ccfc worth more now that we play in northampton or would we be worth more playing at the Ricoh ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's worthless either way. It has zero assets.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about Ltd or the other companies that make up our club, Otium SB&L etc? They've got the player registrations/contracts, Ryton, Golden Share incomes (radio and Tv money), CCFC trademarks etc. The liabilities outweigh the assets but they do have assets
skybluehugh
New Member
Who sold all the assets? Who signed the rental agreement? Who didn't take up the chance to buy 50% of the ground while things were still ok with ACL? I wonder
skybluehugh
New Member
Did they or did they not post a profit?
In the year up to the end of May 2012 yes, but the club were still paying rent then.
That isn't to say they haven't made a profit since, but we cannot know that until the next set of accounts are published.