Nick
Administrator
It's just really the medication to quieten my brain. I've come to terms with the fact I'm a bell end and sadly I can't fall back on diagnosis for an excuse.
'Neurodiversity' (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter fernandopartridge
- Start date
Nick
Administrator
Bet he was and is absolutely exhausted masking it
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Yea , since he " came out " i notice so much more .. but i reckon its more to do with the fact hes stopped masking around usBet he was and is absolutely exhausted masking it
Nick
Administrator
Plus you are probably more educated on it now so know the signs.
I do think the stereotypes mislead a bit, people have a naughty kid so they instantly shout ADHD and then that's assumed what it is.
The waiting list etc is a bit of a joke, I do think they should have a "do you want to claim benefits if you are diagnosed" and if people say yes they go to the bottom of the queue and if they say no then they can't for x years. They should also ask "what are you doing to help yourself" and "what will you do to help yourself if diagnosed".
The questions that gp asks are a bit basic and high level. The actual assessment does go much more in depth.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Confessional for me.Is this thread for sympathy or is it being used as a confessional.
There are too many distractions in life now but I wouldn't want to go back to the 1960's when Sundays were a drag because there was nothing to do.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
I didn’t know the GP could diagnose neurodiversity. I thought it was just a psychiatrist
Nick
Administrator
Oh I mean for them to refer. GP just gets you to fill a form with basic questions.
duffer
Well-Known Member
The people who take the piss are basically just scum-sucking bottom-feeders, but I'd still rather have support for those who might need it, at the expense of knowing that there will be a small, scuzzy, minority that abuse it.
Huge kudos to anyone here with the guts to admit they might have a problem, and the courage to try to sort it out. Not sure I'm there yet, not sure I ever will be.
And @Otis , you don't need subtitles because you're autistic mate, you need them because you're getting older and deafer. Just turn the telly up you daft bugger.
Ectemnius
Well-Known Member
Going through the assessment process as we speak, had my Autism assessments last week, ADHD one to come in March. I have had countless bouts of heavy depression since young, been through the antidepressant treatments and all the CBT etc over the years. My sister's kids are all either diagnosed or awaiting diagnosis, which got us, and the GP, considering that my issues may be related to neurodivergency.
I am lucky as have access to health insurance with work so going down that route, but my daughter struggles with Dyslexia and clearly has ADHD but currently has a 10 year wait up here to get an assessment. If I can get the money together in the next few years may try to get her assessed privately. We do not have right to choose in Scotland.
Genetically, it has come from my Dad's side of the family, looking back he had traits that we just put down to 'who he was'.
By the way, I am in my 50's, and only seeking answers that give a name to the issue. May help me get on top of it and manage it more effectively in the future.
I am lucky as have access to health insurance with work so going down that route, but my daughter struggles with Dyslexia and clearly has ADHD but currently has a 10 year wait up here to get an assessment. If I can get the money together in the next few years may try to get her assessed privately. We do not have right to choose in Scotland.
Genetically, it has come from my Dad's side of the family, looking back he had traits that we just put down to 'who he was'.
By the way, I am in my 50's, and only seeking answers that give a name to the issue. May help me get on top of it and manage it more effectively in the future.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I'm an undiagnosed complete fekkin fruitcake. ADHD possibly, certainly OCD and a touch of tourettes (not just the sweary kind, a few weird traits). Add into the mix diabetes, poor eyesight, overweight, fused ankle from a football injury and an addictive personality and its not really a surprise I'm a nutcase. Must be an earner in it somewhere, but tbh I'm too lazy to bother with it.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Knew the Leamington and Warwick lot wouldn't pass up the chance to get first in the queue for tickets
Skybluekyle
Well-Known Member
I was hesitant about whether to contribute, but I too am currently going through the diagnostic journey for possible neurodiversity. I actually hold a lot of the same tensions as stated in this thread, there does feel like a tendency towards label-chasing as a means to excuse one's behaviour, but at the same time there are many people out there silently suffering and the current focus on neurodiversity is a means of correction.
I wont go into the minutiae of my own situation, but I just want answers to my own experiences of living in a world that just doesn't feel like it's made for people like me and a missing life manual imprinted in others at a young age but not I. A diagnosis would not be a label or an excuse but an answer to a lifelong question of who I am and why I have weaknesses I have, but conversely also the strengths. That is not to trivilise or invalidate the struggles of others, of which we all have our own weaknesses and strengths.
I wont go into the minutiae of my own situation, but I just want answers to my own experiences of living in a world that just doesn't feel like it's made for people like me and a missing life manual imprinted in others at a young age but not I. A diagnosis would not be a label or an excuse but an answer to a lifelong question of who I am and why I have weaknesses I have, but conversely also the strengths. That is not to trivilise or invalidate the struggles of others, of which we all have our own weaknesses and strengths.
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I do agree with you (and we're supposed to be part of the woke leftie brigade!)
I want to make very clear that I definitely see people and kids at my place of work that are clearly ND and definitely need and deserve help.
For me, the ones I see that you wonder about, it's the parents. Basically, they don't want to discipline their children and let them get away with everything, and a ND diagnosis gives them the excuse to do so. For example, I know someone who was teaching an education course to kids, and one of the kids was kicking the hell out of another kid. yet the kid's parent was just "he can't help it, he's autistic." One of the people running the course got annoyed with this and shouted at the kid. Guess what? The kid stopped kicking the other kid. Apparently the look of shock on his face when someone had actually told him off. But also guess who complained and got that person in trouble?
I also think it's becoming too much of a thing where it's being used to define a person, and ultimately not helping them long term as it rules their life. Making allowances for people is fine, but it can't be a point where everything you do has to made so they can deal with things more easily.
On a personal level, I am sure that if I were a kid now, I would get tested for mild autism and OCD. I've had friends tell me that people they know that I've met have said they thought I was on the spectrum. But I didn't have that as a kid and as such had to learn to cope with all the awkwardness and just being different to others. And I'm actually glad. Because of that, I have learnt how to function around others and can live a 'normal' life. If I'd had people making allowances for me all the time I really don't think Id be able to cope in the real world now.
Sbarcher
Well-Known Member
I take SEN children to school. How on earth some have been able to get taxi travel to school amazes me. Some “require” a passenger assistant as well which I’ve yet to see as necessary. For one child it’s costing £25000 plus cost of vehicle each. There’s even one family who get a mobility car for their child but still get him a paid for taxi to school.
For sure there’s some really deserving children who genuinely need school transportation but there’s many more whose parents are just playing the system.
For sure there’s some really deserving children who genuinely need school transportation but there’s many more whose parents are just playing the system.
Briles
Well-Known Member
People are unique, just like everyone else....
Mcbean
Well-Known Member
I am definitely ocd compared to my wife - she takes no notice when I straighten things - put things in the bin - load the dishwasher - put items away
We have a big island in the kitchen I have tried to resist when she leaves something on there - sometime two days goes past
luckily she’s not allowed in the garage !
We have a big island in the kitchen I have tried to resist when she leaves something on there - sometime two days goes past
luckily she’s not allowed in the garage !
Mercian In Anglia
Well-Known Member
Hope this is helpful for anyone considering medication...
I've found it's a bit like putting on a suit of armour- it protects me from stuff but it's heavy, and limits what I can do or what I feel.
Another analogy would be if you think of your moods/wellbeing as a graph, you have peaks and troughs. Medication can level this off, you you are constantly between 4-6 out of ten*. If you are really struggling when the 1s and 2s hit, this may be a good trade off, at least for a time.
Don't be afraid to go back to your GP and tinker with the dose, or even type of meds. It takes a while for them to kick in. I've had to go back and ask for a higher dosage and continual prescription for what was meant to be a short term, low dose stabilisation thing, but it's working for me at the moment.
That said, it doesn't have to be a permanent thing if that's a worry. A lot of people take them for a period, are able to get their head around whatever is happening and/or make some adjustments to their life (or get others to do so) and can then come off. If you need to go back onto meds later on, that's in no way a failure- you wouldn't think twice about cracking open the cough syrup again if you felt you needed it.
*Funnily enough, one of the things that cuts through the fog for me is the City. I think those neuro pathways are so deeply furrowed that the meds can't stop the big reactions when we win or lose. Not been a great couple of months on that front!
I've found it's a bit like putting on a suit of armour- it protects me from stuff but it's heavy, and limits what I can do or what I feel.
Another analogy would be if you think of your moods/wellbeing as a graph, you have peaks and troughs. Medication can level this off, you you are constantly between 4-6 out of ten*. If you are really struggling when the 1s and 2s hit, this may be a good trade off, at least for a time.
Don't be afraid to go back to your GP and tinker with the dose, or even type of meds. It takes a while for them to kick in. I've had to go back and ask for a higher dosage and continual prescription for what was meant to be a short term, low dose stabilisation thing, but it's working for me at the moment.
That said, it doesn't have to be a permanent thing if that's a worry. A lot of people take them for a period, are able to get their head around whatever is happening and/or make some adjustments to their life (or get others to do so) and can then come off. If you need to go back onto meds later on, that's in no way a failure- you wouldn't think twice about cracking open the cough syrup again if you felt you needed it.
*Funnily enough, one of the things that cuts through the fog for me is the City. I think those neuro pathways are so deeply furrowed that the meds can't stop the big reactions when we win or lose. Not been a great couple of months on that front!
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
Yep agree with this. Been tinkering with my meds for 10 years and its only the last year that I've found the perfect one.
Its frustrating but it really it really is trial and error.
Otis
Well-Known Member
That's almost spot-on.
I would word it just slightly differently
I am unique. Everyone else...well, they're all just the same.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
I do the straightening thing too. Even do it in shops and supermarkets. Always rearranging their stock and shelves for them, putting stuff back in the right place and lining things up properly.I am definitely ocd compared to my wife - she takes no notice when I straighten things - put things in the bin - load the dishwasher - put items away
We have a big island in the kitchen I have tried to resist when she leaves something on there - sometime two days goes past
luckily she’s not allowed in the garage !
Mercian In Anglia
Well-Known Member
Right this is probably going to be quite a long rambling thing about OCD, apologies in advance, hopefully a point emerges at the end...
Some posters have mentioned diagnosis/labelling, and the issues with OCD being a bit of a spectrum, and maybe not being able to acknowledge it because theirs isn't at the 10 hours of hand washing full on debilitating level.
An alternative term that I've found helpful to get my head round it is 'ritual behaviour'. So what is a ritual?
(Cut Scene- Cov, 10,000BC).
Our mutual great x100 grandparents Coben and Babba, and their extended tribe, have found a lovely spot by a lake in the Forest of Arden. There are streams and fish are plentiful, so they decide to stop scratching around for nuts and deer across the forest, and settle here, by Babba's lake. With practice, they soon get so good at fishing that they only need to fish a couple of days a week. Grandad Coben starts to get bored, and he also misses his roast vension dinner on the Sun's Day. So he picks up his spear again, and heads off into the woods.
After trekking around for a bit, he spots some deer in a clearing on top of a hill (which he dubs 'Hill Top'). He makes a kill and takes it back to the village. A few days later he tries his luck again, but the deer are spooked and not there. After some trial and error, he finds that if he waits for two turns of the moon between hunting, there is always deer about there. Later, he starts taking his little grandson Willen with him, and puts markers on the trees and rocks to mark the path for him.
(fast forward 500 years).
Coben's Tribe are now living on The Folk's Hill, and have a lovely herd of cattle to sustain them, so don't need to hunt deer any more. However, it has been passed down the generations from Willen onwards that it is vital to follow the old path to Hilltop on certain times of the year. They put up a set of stones that align with the hill and sun to mark these times, and set up a post with a deer's skull on Hill Top. Eventually the skull keeps blowing off, but people have carved deer head graffiti on the post, and they elaborate the carvings to make a great totem pole.
So far, this ritual, that sprang out of a useful survival practice, has lost it's meaning and purpose- but is not harmful, and indeed has picked up new meaning as a way of connecting the tribe and marking the seasons. However, the tribe then come into conflict with a group of invaders. It is clear there is going to be a great battle, but this falls on the day of the procession to the deer pole. The tribe deliberates, but decides that it is too dangerous to risk the Wrath of Coben, so they head to worship as usual. The invaders are less picky, and massacre the tribe around their totem. The ritual has become harmful.
The invaders have no concept of what the totem means, but they have seen its power over the Cobentribe (whose name and customs they slowly adapt) and so allow it to stay, eventually beginning to visit it themselves to show their separate identity from their neighbours, such as the Horse Botherers to the East.
Finally, Christianity arrives, and The Church demolishes the Totem, smashes the sacred stones, and uses them to build a great church on Hill Top. The people still get to fulfil the ritual urge to visit the sacred place at certain times of the year, and even in the 21st Century people are still following in the footsteps of Coben, and continuing his ritual.
So, ritual behaviour is ingrained in us as a useful survival processing skill, but we are no longer hunter gatherers whose lives are timed to the seasons and the patterns of crops or game. Our brain can internalise and accelerate that process (especially when faced with the complexity and nonsense of the modern world), and so what was a quite sensible idea that helped us out of a particular situation, can quickly mushroom into a problem.
Knowing why it is happening can be helpful though, I find, and it is also good (at least for me) to lean into some behaviour, and accept it and make time for it.
So for example, most people do the quick 'keys, wallet, phone' pat down before leaving the house. Makes sense, takes no time, no problem. Mine is a bit more elaborate, but it's still checking useful stuff so I accept it and plan it into my day. What isn't helpful is getting half way to work, and then having to turn around in the pissing rain to triple check I locked the front door. This is a ritual I needed to stop, so I'm really strict with myself to check the door once when I leave, consciously say to myself 'It's locked', and then crack on. But, I understand how I have got to that point, what the underlying fear or problem was, and that makes it easier to manage and contain it.
If you read all that, I hope that made some vague sort of sense!
Some posters have mentioned diagnosis/labelling, and the issues with OCD being a bit of a spectrum, and maybe not being able to acknowledge it because theirs isn't at the 10 hours of hand washing full on debilitating level.
An alternative term that I've found helpful to get my head round it is 'ritual behaviour'. So what is a ritual?
(Cut Scene- Cov, 10,000BC).
Our mutual great x100 grandparents Coben and Babba, and their extended tribe, have found a lovely spot by a lake in the Forest of Arden. There are streams and fish are plentiful, so they decide to stop scratching around for nuts and deer across the forest, and settle here, by Babba's lake. With practice, they soon get so good at fishing that they only need to fish a couple of days a week. Grandad Coben starts to get bored, and he also misses his roast vension dinner on the Sun's Day. So he picks up his spear again, and heads off into the woods.
After trekking around for a bit, he spots some deer in a clearing on top of a hill (which he dubs 'Hill Top'). He makes a kill and takes it back to the village. A few days later he tries his luck again, but the deer are spooked and not there. After some trial and error, he finds that if he waits for two turns of the moon between hunting, there is always deer about there. Later, he starts taking his little grandson Willen with him, and puts markers on the trees and rocks to mark the path for him.
(fast forward 500 years).
Coben's Tribe are now living on The Folk's Hill, and have a lovely herd of cattle to sustain them, so don't need to hunt deer any more. However, it has been passed down the generations from Willen onwards that it is vital to follow the old path to Hilltop on certain times of the year. They put up a set of stones that align with the hill and sun to mark these times, and set up a post with a deer's skull on Hill Top. Eventually the skull keeps blowing off, but people have carved deer head graffiti on the post, and they elaborate the carvings to make a great totem pole.
So far, this ritual, that sprang out of a useful survival practice, has lost it's meaning and purpose- but is not harmful, and indeed has picked up new meaning as a way of connecting the tribe and marking the seasons. However, the tribe then come into conflict with a group of invaders. It is clear there is going to be a great battle, but this falls on the day of the procession to the deer pole. The tribe deliberates, but decides that it is too dangerous to risk the Wrath of Coben, so they head to worship as usual. The invaders are less picky, and massacre the tribe around their totem. The ritual has become harmful.
The invaders have no concept of what the totem means, but they have seen its power over the Cobentribe (whose name and customs they slowly adapt) and so allow it to stay, eventually beginning to visit it themselves to show their separate identity from their neighbours, such as the Horse Botherers to the East.
Finally, Christianity arrives, and The Church demolishes the Totem, smashes the sacred stones, and uses them to build a great church on Hill Top. The people still get to fulfil the ritual urge to visit the sacred place at certain times of the year, and even in the 21st Century people are still following in the footsteps of Coben, and continuing his ritual.
So, ritual behaviour is ingrained in us as a useful survival processing skill, but we are no longer hunter gatherers whose lives are timed to the seasons and the patterns of crops or game. Our brain can internalise and accelerate that process (especially when faced with the complexity and nonsense of the modern world), and so what was a quite sensible idea that helped us out of a particular situation, can quickly mushroom into a problem.
Knowing why it is happening can be helpful though, I find, and it is also good (at least for me) to lean into some behaviour, and accept it and make time for it.
So for example, most people do the quick 'keys, wallet, phone' pat down before leaving the house. Makes sense, takes no time, no problem. Mine is a bit more elaborate, but it's still checking useful stuff so I accept it and plan it into my day. What isn't helpful is getting half way to work, and then having to turn around in the pissing rain to triple check I locked the front door. This is a ritual I needed to stop, so I'm really strict with myself to check the door once when I leave, consciously say to myself 'It's locked', and then crack on. But, I understand how I have got to that point, what the underlying fear or problem was, and that makes it easier to manage and contain it.
If you read all that, I hope that made some vague sort of sense!
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I do think a lot of stuff around anxiety, OCD and the like is due to our ancestors’ behaviour and natural.
Mercian In Anglia
Well-Known Member
much more succinctly put!
The Great Eastern
Well-Known Member
I've been reading your amusing posts on SBT and GMK for many years Otis and I can safely say you're many things but 'thick' you most certainly are not
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
It's a tricky one. The problem is we don't seem to be able to cope with things that are a sliding scale. The health service, schools, employers etc can cope with putting someone in a box and providing accordingly, not so much when you bring in so many variables.
For example if someone is in a wheelchair that's something that people know exactly how to deal with. But what is required when someone places somewhere on a spectrum?
I do worry about how many kids are being labelled in school and how much support is being given to them. Think we've gone too far in the other direction from when I was at school and there was zero support for anything. You had one teacher, 30+ kids and everyone cracked on. My concern is that they aren't going to see that same level of support once they leave education, are we setting kids up to fail?
We certainly need to look into why there's so many kids at the higher end of the spectrum. At the lower end I can see that the numbers could compare to the past, we've just never diagnosed it. But at the higher end and with kids who are non-verbal that's something you couldn't have missed in the past and it feels like the numbers now are way higher.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Certainly wouldn't label you thick from what I know of you on here.
I'm in the same boat. I've done 101 online tests in recent years that all score pretty highly but the time & expense of going further seems pretty pointless.
When I looked into it you had pretty much zero chance of getting formally assessed by the NHS as an adult, there's insane waiting lists. So your only real option is a private test to confirm what you already know and then what? Fair enough if you're at a point where you want medication for something but I don't feel I'm there and my experiences with adult mental health services when dealing with them for stress, anxiety and depression don't exactly inspire me with hope that anything of use would be done.
Kind of feels like I've got this far so just keep going rather than taking away limited resources from someone who needs it more.
Looking back I can see clear signs from around the age of 8 or 9 that weren't pick up on because they just weren't back then. Do sometimes wonder how life would have been different if those things had been picked up and dealt with early on.
Sky Blue Goblin
Well-Known Member
Neurodiverse and was luckily diagnosed before I can remember to be honest as seems to be a nightmare now with the wait in the NHS right now and cost is ridiculous to go private (plus chances are the NHS would just ignore your diagnosis unless you went to the right one). Personally think the state of the NHS is the main culprit atm over things like online but see how that would play a role
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Is that a daily allowance of breasts?Titration