Do you want to discuss boring politics? (11 Viewers)

[wingy]

He’d have to it can’t be worse can it?

It's a ploy to get Starmer out of here and alongside Blair on the board of peace!
Also now the UN is pretty much defunct could David be on for a return to the UK?

 

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[CCFCSteve]

thats wut they need tho

It will help but they need to deliver, that’s what the country cares about. Sums up the party that there’s talk of Rayner being a potential challenger after she had to resign due to some unfortunate tax issues but more importantly her former department is currently overseeing the worst housing building numbers for years/decades in Londons case.

 

[wingy]

It will help but they need to deliver, that’s what the country cares about. Sums up the party that there’s talk of Rayner being a potential challenger after she had to resign due to some unfortunate tax issues but more importantly her former department is currently overseeing the worst housing building numbers for years/decades in Londons case.

I'm fairly sure it's because of and not proof that this downturn is supplier generated.

 

[wingy]

That mamood is also a piece with her ideas for the police, not sure what it is with these home secretaries, but they all fit the strict category, nothing soft about these women.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I'm fairly sure it's because of and not proof that this downturn is supplier generated.

Yeah, it’s always going to be supplier driven but what has been done to help encourage more building and why have a 1.5m target in the first place if you can’t control/influence it ? Developments are still being held up in planning for no good reason, increase in NIC/other taxes/delays which is bumping up costs to build which then brings affordability into equation

My point was more that within the party you’ll have people saying ‘we need a change of leadership’ and then proposing people who’ve done fuck all but then try to defend the individuals record (which would probably include the same reasons for defending the leaderships record). As I say, it’s just narcissist factional infighting.

All while the country is thinking WTF, get on with your jobs

 

[LarryGrayson]

Andy Burnham blocked from byelection race by Labour ruling committee

Decision likely to set off ferocious row between Keir Starmer loyalists and allies of Greater Manchester mayor

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

That mamood is also a piece with her ideas for the police, not sure what it is with these home secretaries, but they all fit the strict category, nothing soft about these women.

It's also the image that they believe (probably correctly) that the British public want from someone in that job.

They're in charge of things like law and order and immigration, things people want us to be tough over.

 

[chiefdave]

Andy Burnham blocked from byelection race by Labour ruling committee

Decision likely to set off ferocious row between Keir Starmer loyalists and allies of Greater Manchester mayor

www.theguardian.com

Given the NEC is loaded with Starmer loyalists this was always a possibility but one I thought they might try and avoid because of how weak it makes Starmer look.

 

[StrettoBoy]

Given the NEC is loaded with Starmer loyalists this was always a possibility but one I thought they might try and avoid because of how weak it makes Starmer look.

The choice for Starmer was look weak or face losing his job to Burnham. It's probably only a temporary reprieve, as I can't see him still being Prime Minister by the time of the autumn party conference.

 

[chiefdave]

The choice for Starmer was look weak or face losing his job to Burnham. It's probably only a temporary reprieve, as I can't see him still being Prime Minister by the time of the autumn party conference.

The other option would be to convincingly see off any challenge. This course of action very much leaves the impression he is not confident of his ability to do that.

 

[Captain Dart]

Man's a fool.

 

[LarryGrayson]

Sheffield Reform UK branch 'in tatters' after 'amped' role play 'crossed a line'

Exclusive: Four members of the Sheffield East Reform UK branch have been permanently expelled from the party

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[chiefdave]

Well and truly in scraping the barrel territory

How the fuck do you present yourself as an alternative when half your party is from a failed government, people won't fall for this surely?

Ex-Tory Home Secretary Suella Braverman defects to Reform UK

The MP was unveiled as the party's latest recruit by leader Nigel Farage at a rally.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CCFCSteve]

Well and truly in scraping the barrel territory

How the fuck do you present yourself as an alternative when half your party is from a failed government, people won't fall for this surely?

Ex-Tory Home Secretary Suella Braverman defects to Reform UK

The MP was unveiled as the party's latest recruit by leader Nigel Farage at a rally.

www.bbc.co.uk

Gives the Tories an outside chance to reset as well. If the government get control of immigration Reform have ended up with the nutters and main message gone

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Gives the Tories an outside chance to reset as well. If the government get control of immigration Reform have ended up with the nutters and main message gone

Doesn’t the public want the nutters approach

 

[CCFCSteve]

Doesn’t the public want the nutters approach

I’m not sure they do. Most just want to feel like if they work hard they’ll have enough money for them/their family to have a decent enough life and have public services that work for them when they need them

Whether any of the parties have actually got a plan or polices to deliver these remains to be seen

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Gives the Tories an outside chance to reset as well. If the government get control of immigration Reform have ended up with the nutters and main message gone

The only shocking thing about Braverman defecting is how long it took. It is also true that the Conservative Party has been 'purging' members on the right of the party to preemptively strike against defections so it makes sense the likes of Braverman and Jenrick to leave.

Reform need to start talking more about the economy now. Jenrick is now 'shadow chancellor' yet, can anyone tell you what his economic ideas are?

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The only shocking thing about Braverman defecting is how long it took. It is also true that the Conservative Party has been 'purging' members on the right of the party to preemptively strike against defections so it makes sense the likes of Braverman and Jenrick to leave.

Reform need to start talking more about the economy now. Jenrick is now 'shadow chancellor' yet, can anyone tell you what his economic ideas are?

Shovel loads of cash to their rich friends would be the answer, but like other snake oil salesmen, coming up with the right pitch for this to deceive ordinary voters requires some thought.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

His explanation seems to be they got it wrong they’ve admitted it now they can do it right with reform

 

[Sick Boy]

'The anti-establishment party - hahahaha!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well and truly in scraping the barrel territory

How the fuck do you present yourself as an alternative when half your party is from a failed government, people won't fall for this surely?

Ex-Tory Home Secretary Suella Braverman defects to Reform UK

The MP was unveiled as the party's latest recruit by leader Nigel Farage at a rally.

www.bbc.co.uk

Farage is on record saying he wants to stage a reverse takeover of the Tory party. The hard deadline of 7th May is designed to put maximum pressure to would-be defectors.

Braverman and Jenrick are popular with grassroot Tories precisely because they lambasted the Tory record. These are ultimately the people Reform need to win over and if they smash the stubborn 20% of the electorate who’d consider voting Tory (like myself), they win the election. Right now, there’s a narrative that there’s a ‘Kemi bounce’ and Reform have ‘peaked’ in the polls so it’s no surprise

What’s interesting now is that it’s clear that the Tories and Reform are in a fight to the death and there can only be one winner. Cooperation on any level seemed like a remote in the first place, now it seems impossible.

There are Labour MPs who are naturally more aligned with the Greens and/or Your Party and when it becomes clear Labour is finished, they will realign themselves. My view is that Reform’s rise is potentially the start of a huge realignment in UK politics.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Farage is on record saying he wants to stage a reverse takeover of the Tory party. The hard deadline of 7th May is designed to put maximum pressure to would-be defectors.

Braverman and Jenrick are popular with grassroot Tories precisely because they lambasted the Tory record. These are ultimately the people Reform need to win over and if they smash the stubborn 20% of the electorate who’d consider voting Tory (like myself), they win the election. Right now, there’s a narrative that there’s a ‘Kemi bounce’ and Reform have ‘peaked’ in the polls so it’s no surprise

What’s interesting now is that it’s clear that the Tories and Reform are in a fight to the death and there can only be one winner. Cooperation on any level seemed like a remote in the first place, now it seems impossible.

There are Labour MPs who are naturally more aligned with the Greens and/or Your Party and when it becomes clear Labour is finished, they will realign themselves. My view is that Reform’s rise is potentially the start of a huge realignment in UK politics.

It will ultimately lead to another two party set up that is just more polarised than it used to be, which is a bad thing in my view. The consequence of one major party able but unwilling to help on cost of living and the other willing but not able.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

'The anti-establishment party - hahahaha!

You can’t really be ‘anti-establishment’ if you’re odds-on to form the next government…

It’s a pattern that happens with any party who comes from the fringes to government.

It will ultimately lead to another two party set up that is just more polarised than it used to be, which is a bad thing in my view. The consequence of one major party able but unwilling to help on cost of living and the other willing but not able.

In the short term, probably. Longer term, a new consensus probably emerges, what that looks like is anyone’s guess. The rise of the Labour Party was similar but then they became establishment, the post-war consensus settled in and before Thatcher, you had ‘Buttskellism’ where there was little daylight between the Labour and Conservative parties.

In short, what is being alleged today but unlike the 70/80s, politics has fragmented and old party loyalties have eroded and therefore, up for grabs.

After all, Reform is now arguably the party of the working class and Labour is the party of private school students. A completely unrecognisable landscape.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can’t really be ‘anti-establishment’ if you’re odds-on to form the next government…

It’s a pattern that happens with any party who comes from the fringes to government.


In the short term, probably. Longer term, a new consensus probably emerges, what that looks like is anyone’s guess. The rise of the Labour Party was similar but then they became establishment, the post-war consensus settled in and before Thatcher, you had ‘Buttskellism’ where there was little daylight between the Labour and Conservative parties.

In short, what is being alleged today but unlike the 70/80s, politics has fragmented and old party loyalties have eroded and therefore, up for grabs.

After all, Reform is now arguably the party of the working class and Labour is the party of private school students. A completely unrecognisable landscape.

I disagree entirely with the last few sentences but agree with the rest.

 

[rob9872]

You can’t really be ‘anti-establishment’ if you’re odds-on to form the next government…

It’s a pattern that happens with any party who comes from the fringes to government.


In the short term, probably. Longer term, a new consensus probably emerges, what that looks like is anyone’s guess. The rise of the Labour Party was similar but then they became establishment, the post-war consensus settled in and before Thatcher, you had ‘Buttskellism’ where there was little daylight between the Labour and Conservative parties.

In short, what is being alleged today but unlike the 70/80s, politics has fragmented and old party loyalties have eroded and therefore, up for grabs.

After all, Reform is now arguably the party of the working class and Labour is the party of private school students. A completely unrecognisable landscape.

What it will eventually trigger imo is proportional representation and coalition governments. I still can't make my mind up if that's a good or bad thing, but feels inevitable. The only reason FPPT exists is because it suits the two main parties who each move boundaries and gain full control on about 25% of the electorate.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I disagree entirely with the last few sentences but agree with the rest.

You can disagree all you want, but it’s what the polling is showing. It follows a trend of collapsing working class support for centre-left parties across Europe.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can disagree all you want, but it’s what the polling is showing. It follows a trend of collapsing working class support for centre-left parties across Europe.

What I mean is these parties replacing them are all out on the grift and don’t have working class interests at heart in the slightest. Labour haven’t acted like a centre left party since Starmer came in to be clear.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What it will eventually trigger imo is proportional representation and coalition governments. I still can't make my mind up if that's a good or bad thing, but feels inevitable. The only reason FPPT exists is because it suits the two main parties who each move boundaries and gain full control on about 25% of the electorate.

PR is terrible imo. Imagine being governed by coalitions that no one actually voted for?

The current UK context, you’d probably have a big Labour-Green-LD block v Tory/Reform or if we went the same way as Germany, a Labour/Tory grand coalition because their more right or left wing partners are too unpalatable.

Personally, I think it’s good that the last 2 governments have been stonking majorities. It’s unfortunate that they’ve just wasted it because they’ve lacked direction one way or another.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What I mean is these parties replacing them are all out on the grift and don’t have working class interests at heart in the slightest. Labour haven’t acted like a centre left party since Starmer came in to be clear.

It’s not a grift, these parties are occupying a vacuum left by the trade union movement/political left.

I’d agree on the final sentence, from 1997 to present day, both Tory and Labour have been wedded to Blairite consensus. Blair himself being a Thatcher’s ‘biggest political accomplishment’.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s not a grift, these parties are occupying a vacuum left by the trade union movement/political left.

I’d agree on the final sentence, from 1997 to present day, both Tory and Labour have been wedded to Blairite consensus. Blair himself being a Thatcher’s ‘biggest political accomplishment’.

It is a grift because as the Republicans in the US have already shown, when they get in they will actually hurt most the voters you’re talking about. The endgame is usually a big tax heist.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Just wait until all these former tories start trying to stab Farage in the back

 

[CCFCSteve]

Just wait until all these former tories start trying to stab Farage in the back

There is no doubt in my mind that Jenrick and Braverman (both with failed Tory leadership bids under their belts) have gone there with an eye on being his successor

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Just wait until all these former tories start trying to stab Farage in the back

The likes of Jenrick and Braverman are all about their own prestige and ambition. No way are they going to be happy as Farage's lackeys. Only a matter of time before they start creating unrest.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What it will eventually trigger imo is proportional representation and coalition governments. I still can't make my mind up if that's a good or bad thing, but feels inevitable. The only reason FPPT exists is because it suits the two main parties who each move boundaries and gain full control on about 25% of the electorate.

We have two houses in Parliament. We can have both.

If you've got constituencies how do you do PR? Someone somewhere isn't going to get the candidate they voted for.

Abolish the Lords, make it PR, keep the Commons FPTP and you've got both systems with one election.