How much will we spend in the summer? (23 Viewers)

[Lamps]

Not in the same way as years gone by. Parachute payment teams have a structural advantage as their premiership spending is subsidised for 1-2 seasons post-relegation.

In reality, we've spent £55m over the past 3 summers so it's not really a stretch to bump that up to £100m to stay up in the Prem. Promotion itself is worth about £200m so the club definitely needs to spend money to compete.

In reality we spent money we had coming in from other transfers. We have Championship players on Championship wages and still have a higher wage bill than a Championship income. Let's add some Prem players on Prem wages getting relegated back to the Championship. If you can't shift these players you have a bit of a problem. If you don't go straight back up you have a big problem. You are then against 3 newly relegated sides with parachute payments.

So how much do you think the parachute payments are and how long do they last?

 

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[shmmeee]

The collapse of ITV Digital didn't hit us more than anything.
The banks, specifically the CO-OP deciding to stop bank rolling badly run football clubs hit us harder, the collapse of ITV Digital just compounded it.

But it wouldn't have mattered anywheee near as much if we'd had our finances in some sort of order.

As for 'my strategy' I haven't outlined one.
All I've said is we need a solid contingency for coming straight back down.

Given how many clubs that happens to, regardless of spend, I'm jot sure that that's too controversial.

Self fulfilling if you won’t spend what’s needed to stay up you may as well spend nothing at all. I really don’t see the logic in half arsing it tbh.

 

[clint van damme]

Self fulfilling if you won’t spend what’s needed to stay up you may as well spend nothing at all. I really don’t see the logic in half arsing it tbh.

And what makes you think 100 mil is the magic number that guarantees staying up?

Wolves squad, who are stinking the place out at the moment, is valued at 370 mil according to transfer market.
Even spending 100 mil doesn't get our squad to that value.
And again, you are trying to put an arbitary figure on the spend, and that's not what I'm doing, I'm saying we need to be able to handle a relegation financially if it happens, which there's a very good chance happens.

 

[shmmeee]

And what makes you think 100 mil is the magic number that guarantees staying up?

Wolves squad, who are stinking the place out at the moment, is valued at 370 mil according to transfer market.
Even spending 100 mil doesn't get our squad to that value.
And again, you are trying to put an arbitary figure on the spend, and that's not what I'm doing, I'm saying we need to be able to handle a relegation financially if it happens, which there's a very good chance happens.

Im looking at examples of clubs that have done what we want and assuming our task is similar. Sunderland and Forest have to be the model. And no it’s not guaranteed but neither was promotion after spending £50m at this level.

 

[clint van damme]

Im looking at examples of clubs that have done what we want and assuming our task is similar. Sunderland and Forest have to be the model. And no it’s not guaranteed but neither was promotion after spending £50m at this level.

And there are plenty who've spent that much and still got relegated, there are those that have spent less and thrived.
Canny recruitment and a management and coaching team with a decent game plan can go a long way.


And Forest are not a good model to follow, sacked their most succesful manger for years because of the owners out of control ego, brought his mate in and sacked him after 6 games, now got Sean Dyche, no thanks.

 

[Lamps]

Self fulfilling if you won’t spend what’s needed to stay up you may as well spend nothing at all. I really don’t see the logic in half arsing it tbh.

It isn't how much you spend. It's how you spend it and how wisely it's spent. It's a mix of transfer fees and extra wages.

It isn't about Luton although you would never guess reading a lot of posts on here. How much did the other sides that came back down spend? How are they doing now?

 

[shmmeee]

And there are plenty who've spent that much and still got relegated, there are those that have spent less and thrived.
Canny recruitment and a management and coaching team with a decent game plan can go a long way.


And Forest are not a good model to follow, sacked their most succesful manger for years because of the owners out of control ego, brought his mate in and sacked him after 6 games, now got Sean Dyche, no thanks.

Can you name a club that’s spent less and thrived?

We’ve got canny recruitment and great coaching here. Still cost us £50m to buy promotion. Ultimately you get what you pay for.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And what makes you think 100 mil is the magic number that guarantees staying up?

Wolves squad, who are stinking the place out at the moment, is valued at 370 mil according to transfer market.
Even spending 100 mil doesn't get our squad to that value.
And again, you are trying to put an arbitary figure on the spend, and that's not what I'm doing, I'm saying we need to be able to handle a relegation financially if it happens, which there's a very good chance happens.

Have a luck at our bench for most of December, it’s been v weak. Against Ipswich we had 2 GKs and 5 defenders on the bench.

We comfortably need a squad of 23-25 first team players. That’s without upgrading any positions.

Make no mistake about it, you have sign a minimum of 10 players between now and the start of next season if we go up.

That is without upgrading comes with significant investment and is the same state of play in 2023/24 where we had to sign lots of players. If we spent £35-40m after selling Hamer and Vik, we’d probably spend double that receiving a windfall of some £200m.

Even clubs like Burnley and Leeds have invested massive amounts of money over the last few seasons.

If the club is serious about staying up, we need the talent and that will entail spending money on 4-5 £20m players and supplementing that talent.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

When we get Champions League we are going to need an even bigger squad to rotate with as well.

 

[Lamps]

Im looking at examples of clubs that have done what we want and assuming our task is similar. Sunderland and Forest have to be the model. And no it’s not guaranteed but neither was promotion after spending £50m at this level.

In recent years alone how many sides have spent what you want us to spend and have still come straight back down? It's been years since a Championship side cemented a place in the Prem. Sunderland are in their first season.

 

[clint van damme]

Can you name a club that’s spent less and thrived?

We’ve got canny recruitment and great coaching here. Still cost us £50m to buy promotion. Ultimately you get what you pay for.

I appreciate there is an inflation adjustment needed here but Brentford 1st season back net spend 38 mil.

Fulham 1st season back in Prem, net spend 73 mil.

Leicester and Southampton last season, 81 and 123 mil respectively.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And there are plenty who've spent that much and still got relegated, there are those that have spent less and thrived.
Canny recruitment and a management and coaching team with a decent game plan can go a long way.


And Forest are not a good model to follow, sacked their most succesful manger for years because of the owners out of control ego, brought his mate in and sacked him after 6 games, now got Sean Dyche, no thanks.

They’re in the Europa League…

You can be canny in the transfer market but probably not get the talent required spending £5-10m on players like we have in the Championship.

Even if we do spend £100m on transfers a still go down, it’s positions the club as a top Championship club for the years to come. A couple of yo-yo years would be quite good if it meant sustained success in the Prem long term.

 

[clint van damme]

When we get Champions League we are going to need an even bigger squad to rotate with as well.

If we don't spend 2 billion in the summer to get there is there any point in going up?!

 

[shmmeee]

I appreciate there is an inflation adjustment needed here but Brentford 1st season back net spend 38 mil.

Fulham 1st season back in Prem, net spend 73 mil.

Leicester and Southampton last season, 81 and 123 mil respectively.

All those clubs had been there recently, no? They weren’t starting from a non PL base like us, Ipswich, Sunderland, Forest, etc.

 

[Lamps]

Have a luck at our bench for most of December, it’s been v weak. Against Ipswich we had 2 GKs and 5 defenders on the bench.

We comfortably need a squad of 23-25 first team players. That’s without upgrading any positions.

Make no mistake about it, you have sign a minimum of 10 players between now and the start of next season if we go up.

That is without upgrading comes with significant investment and is the same state of play in 2023/24 where we had to sign lots of players. If we spent £35-40m after selling Hamer and Vik, we’d probably spend double that receiving a windfall of some £200m.

Even clubs like Burnley and Leeds have invested massive amounts of money over the last few seasons.

If the club is serious about staying up, we need the talent and that will entail spending money on 4-5 £20m players and supplementing that talent.

So less than half a side for 100mm and then buy another half a side or so? What wage bill would that come with?

 

[shmmeee]

So less than half a side for 100mm and then buy another half a side or so? What wage bill would that come with?

A fucking massive one that’s paid for by equally Fucking massive TV money. That’s the game.

 

[clint van damme]

They’re in the Europa League…

You can be canny in the transfer market but probably not get the talent required spending £5-10m on players like we have in the Championship.

Even if we do spend £100m on transfers a still go down, it’s positions the club as a top Championship club for the years to come. A couple of yo-yo years would be quite good if it meant sustained success in the Prem long term.

They may be in the Europa league, but they sacked the man who got them there because their ego maniac owner stormed on to the pitch throwing his weight about, no thanks, not for me.

I agree about becoming a yo yo club. It would be another huge step forward, but you still have to get it right to do that, you don't have to cast your eyes very far (up the M69) to see a club who are about to fuck that up.

 

[Lamps]

A fucking massive one that’s paid for by equally Fucking massive TV money. That’s the game.

You've already reached close to 200m in transfers and wages. How much do you think promotion is worth? What happens if we do a Leicester or similar?

You will admit yourself spending an astronomical amount guarantees nothing.

 

[clint van damme]

All those clubs had been there recently, no? They weren’t starting from a non PL base like us, Ipswich, Sunderland, Forest, etc.

Fulham had been out of the PL almost as long as us, it was Brentfords first time.
And I've got Leicesters spend wrong, it was 91 mil.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I appreciate there is an inflation adjustment needed here but Brentford 1st season back net spend 38 mil.

Fulham 1st season back in Prem, net spend 73 mil.

Leicester and Southampton last season, 81 and 123 mil respectively.

What was the actual spend?

With Leicester and Southampton, that’s £81m and £123m on top of the players and revenues they had in the seasons prior to yo-yoing.

We don’t have a Jobe Bellingham to sell for £30m so fully anticipate us to have a high ‘net spend’ as a new comer.

That’ll probably change if we came up and went down with PL talent on our books. Southampton sold players for £40, 50, 60 million both times they got relegated.

So less than half a side for 100mm and then buy another half a side or so? What wage bill would that come with?

We’re a loss making business as are most Championship teams. If anything, I’d argue maintaining a squad at our current level is more unsustainable for the long term than a PL squad with PL money.

With today’s sums, you almost become ‘too big to fail’. As soon as you’re a parachute payment club, the PL effectively subsidises your promotion push back to the big leagues if you’re run well.

 

[clint van damme]

What was the actual spend?

With Leicester and Southampton, that’s £81m and £123m on top of the players and revenues they had in the seasons prior to yo-yoing.

We don’t have a Jobe Bellingham to sell for £30m so fully anticipate us to have a high ‘net spend’ as a new comer.

That’ll probably change if we came up and went down with PL talent on our books. Southampton sold players for £40, 50, 60 million both times they got relegated.



We’re a loss making business as are most Championship teams. If anything, I’d argue maintaining a squad at our current level is more unsustainable for the long term than a PL squad with PL money.

With today’s sums, you almost become ‘too big to fail’. As soon as you’re a parachute payment club, the PL effectively subsidises your promotion push back to the big leagues if you’re run well.

The figures I've quoted are from transfer market and are net Spends, I appreciate with all these type of sites you can't take the figures as gospel but they give you a good idea.

And your last line is exactly my point, 'if you're run well'.
Run well clubs aren't clubs who struggle in the championship despite parachute payments, and that's all I'm saying, we need to make sure that's not us.

 

[Lamps]

What was the actual spend?

With Leicester and Southampton, that’s £81m and £123m on top of the players and revenues they had in the seasons prior to yo-yoing.

We don’t have a Jobe Bellingham to sell for £30m so fully anticipate us to have a high ‘net spend’ as a new comer.

That’ll probably change if we came up and went down with PL talent on our books. Southampton sold players for £40, 50, 60 million both times they got relegated.



We’re a loss making business as are most Championship teams. If anything, I’d argue maintaining a squad at our current level is more unsustainable for the long term than a PL squad with PL money.

With today’s sums, you almost become ‘too big to fail’. As soon as you’re a parachute payment club, the PL effectively subsidises your promotion push back to the big leagues if you’re run well.

So who has said about maintaining our squad at our current level and doing a Luton?

This is from Ipswich

While relegation is undoubtedly disappointing, the single Premier League season brought in over £100 million in broadcast revenue, along with guaranteed parachute payments of around £48 million and £38 million over the next two seasons.

You want to spend all this in 1 go.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The figures I've quoted are from transfer market and are net Spends, I appreciate with all these type of sites you can't take the figures as gospel but they give you a good idea.

And your last line is exactly my point, 'if you're run well'.
Run well clubs aren't clubs who struggle in the championship despite parachute payments, and that's all I'm saying, we need to make sure that's not us.

We can agree on this as a concept. Equally, if we’re pragmatic, promotion requires heavy investment into the playing squad. The gulf between the Championship and Premiership is so large, we need 4-5 players to come and start from day one as an absolute minimum, probably closer to 7-8. We get lucky and pick up a player like Ross Barkley or something but mostly requires big transfer spending.

 

[Lamps]

We can agree on this as a concept. Equally, if we’re pragmatic, promotion requires heavy investment into the playing squad. The gulf between the Championship and Premiership is so large, we need 4-5 players to come and start from day one as an absolute minimum, probably closer to 7-8. We get lucky and pick up a player like Ross Barkley or something but mostly requires big transfer spending.

Which is exactly what we've been saying. And no 20m+ signings unless something like a top goalscorer then less on others. Spread the money around and integrate with our best players.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So who has said about maintaining our squad at our current level and doing a Luton?

This is from Ipswich

While relegation is undoubtedly disappointing, the single Premier League season brought in over £100 million in broadcast revenue, along with guaranteed parachute payments of around £48 million and £38 million over the next two seasons.

You want to spend all this in 1 go.

No one has suggesting spending nearly £200m but the reality is, we’re looking at comfortably half that.

It’s £85m upon promotion and £80m thereafter. For arguments sake, if you’re successful like Forest, Wolves (under Nuno) or Sunderland, you spend £100-120m and secure your league status for 2-3 seasons thereafter and all the revenues that come from that.

If you’re going to build a squad for promotion to Prem, which we’re doing. The next step is to future proof that Prem status and, failing that, put yourself position where you can win promotion immediately back to the Prem.

 

[covcity4life]

We have waited so long to maybe be back into he premier league. We have to take this chance to establish ourselves as a top flight team again

I understand the argument that we shouldn't risk finances but I think way too many people are taking being a yo-yo club for granted. It might not happen. We might just go down, shit the bed and then not challenge again

I think the best approach is a mix of both. I personally think we have a good squad and can keep around 14 players. So I'd be looking for 6-7(wahey) prem quality signings to come in

That might be over 100m or it might be less but it's important we pay it to get the required quality in. We don't ever wanna be relegated again

 

[Lamps]

No one has suggesting spending nearly £200m but the reality is, we’re looking at comfortably half that.

We comfortably need a squad of 23-25 first team players. That’s without upgrading any positions.

Make no mistake about it, you have sign a minimum of 10 players between now and the start of next season if we go up.


If the club is serious about staying up, we need the talent and that will entail spending money on 4-5 £20m players and supplementing that talent.

So how much for the 4-5 20m players and the rest to take it up to 10? How much for the wages as they won't play for free.

 

[covcity4life]

So how much for the 4-5 20m players and the rest to take it up to 10? How much for the wages as they won't play for free.

You need to speculate to accumulate?

Forest did now look at them. In Europe let alone staying up

Burnley didn't and they just yo-yo but never look like staying up

 

[clint van damme]

You need to speculate to accumulate?

Forest did now look at them. In Europe let alone staying up

Burnley didn't and they just yo-yo but never look like staying up

Southampton did and look at them.

 

[covcity4life]

Southampton did and look at them.

Southampton did what sorry?(Genuine question)

 

[SBT]

Personally I look forward to seeing a team of extremely expensive, extremely talented foreign players of whom I have zero prior knowledge or personal connection with finish lower mid-table next season. Sack off Tats, Bobby and Haji, bring on the mercenaries.

 

[Lamps]

You need to speculate to accumulate?

Forest did now look at them. In Europe let alone staying up

Burnley didn't and they just yo-yo but never look like staying up

How much do you think we should 'speculate'?

Sheffield Utd and Leicester are the latest to try and fail. This season Sheffield United were reduced to League 1 loans after selling their best players and Leicester look in a right mess.

 

[clint van damme]

Southampton did what sorry?(Genuine question)

Rolled the dice.Their net spend last season was over 120 mil.
Forests was over 140.
Though Forest got docked points for their spending spree last season, so along with the reasons I outlined earlier, not sure they're a great example.

 

[Lamps]

Southampton did what sorry?(Genuine question)

Spent well over what they received for getting there and are now a mid table Championship side that needed us to have a player sent off to get a draw.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Rolled the dice.Their net spend last season was over 120 mil.
Forests was over 140.
Though Forest got docked points for their spending spree last season, so along with the reasons I outlined earlier, not sure they're a great example.

Southampton net spent £120 mill but let Russell Martin manage it.