Immigration and Asylum (6 Viewers)

[Bugsy]

We are actually giving money to sex offenders now.
Fucking disgraceful

Deported migrant sex offender given £500 to leave country

Hadush Kebatu was found guilty of sexually assaulting a schoolgirl and a woman in Epping, Essex, just over a week after arriving in the UK on a small boat.

news.sky.com

 

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[SBAndy]

The majority of the electorate accept that trade off. This is how leaving the ECHR has gone from fringe opinion to the mainstream in little over a year.

The current frameworks are just not working for us (or Europe) and there’s no sign of that changing. This is an issue that seems to be impacting Europe the most so perhaps we adapt similar regimes that Australia, Japan and the USA adhere too.

Japan’s grants around 1% (or thereabouts) of asylum claims, peaking at 9%. In the UK, our rate peaked at 76% in 2022 and before the Human Rights Act was enacted in law, it was around 8%.

Clearly the problem lies somewhere with the passing of the Human Rights Act that enshrined th ECHR in UK law. This is something David Blunkett and Jack Straw recognise when calling to reverse a measure they voted for. It’s clearly had v unintended consequences.

Bit of a reach to say leaving the ECHR has become the mainstream view. Besides, why do we have to leave everything? Why can’t we petition to change it if it’s not working?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Though it does make me ask the question-how exactly is someone fleeing a threat to their lives meant to come here legally?

Crossing Afghanistan-Iran-Turkey-Greece-France-UK is not exactly ‘feeling for their lives’.

The refugee conventions were not made with people picking and choosing which country to claim asylum in. That there is the pertinent point.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Crossing Afghanistan-Iran-Turkey-Greece-France-UK is not exactly ‘feeling for their lives’.

The refugee conventions were not made with people picking and choosing which country to claim asylum in. That there is the pertinent point.

Just looks a nice way of ensuring that we won’t take anybody, if I’m being cynical.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Oh just a couple of things:

- the cheek of you to accuse someone (think it was BSB) of being too deep into Reddit then producing a report by a Reform activist as a source.
- the methodology basing offending rates on 2021 populations when we are hugely aware that some of those population masses have grown significantly since then. Assessing 2023 crime figures vs 2021 population of Afghans or Albanians is going to bring about inconsistencies in the data.

FWIW I’d seen this before (it may have even been you that posted it on here?). To be fair, it is mildly frustrating that we don’t keep better track of data.

So basically, nothing is funny, you just don't have any counter arguments so again you come on a thread like this and just offer nothing of any value to the debate other than trying to derail it. You know you are wrong, basically.

The sneering from people like you and Torch is bizarre. Asking for data as whilst seemingly getting upset over the concept of these sort of conversations, apparently having no idea that someone from Afghanistan is more likely to commit a sexual offence than a British person, and then challenging a source, as if there are not stacks of them out there. Yeah sure, wheter it is 2x the amount or 200x the amount can be debated, but the question were 'are migrants committing more crime than British people' - as I said, this depends on what crime and what nationality they are. In this example with sexual crime however, there are many countries of which their citizens commit a higher percentage on British soil than Brits do. Hardly a surprise if you knew anything about how the world works.

I note one of your points is taken from a Guardian article called 'disputed or debunked claims about migration and crime UK', which means you really had not got anything of value to add when you left the laughing emoji, and went hunting for some information later when called out, which you clearly didn't even read anyway - as it also validates the point in the last paragraph.


Sorry, your response not only makes you look like an idiot, but also completely uninformed as well.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Bit of a reach to say leaving the ECHR has become the mainstream view. Besides, why do we have to leave everything? Why can’t we petition to change it if it’s not working?

On the ECHR, it’s not in the UK’s gift to change it.

Well it has, polling shows 29% of voters want to withdraw from it altogether. Interestingly, the support for the ECHR is almost unanimously in favour of remain among LD-G-Lab voters (around 85%). It’s a bit more split among Tory and Reform voters with a lot ‘don’t knows’. Whilst remaining in the ECHR stands at 46%, its dropped from 57% in 2023. The direction of travel of public opinion is clear.

Frankly, the only party driving the conversation has been the Tory fringes and Reform from that point. If Starmer fails to reform the application of ECHR, this support will continue to plummet.

 

[SBT]

Ah, so he caused a huge fuss about boarding the plane and they gave him £500 to behave. Will keep that in mind for my next holiday

He’s becoming a bit of a Forrest Gump figure this guy. Bumbling his way from headline to headline.

I understand the urge to chuck him £500 to make the problem go away once and for all, but I’m not sure how or why there was even a negotiation here?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

That source looks very reliable.

Do you think people from Afghanistan commit a lower percentage of sexual crimes than British people do in the UK?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He’s becoming a bit of a Forrest Gump figure this guy. Bumbling his way from headline to headline.

I understand the urge to chuck him £500 to make the problem go away once and for all, but I’m not sure how or why there was even a negotiation here?

It was probably a question of giving him that so he went quietly or paying more to take him through the courts. If I were him I’d just turn it into a game at this point, keep trying to get back in and chucked out for cash

 

[SBT]

It was probably a question of giving him that so he went quietly or paying more to take him through the courts. If I were him I’d just turn it into a game at this point, keep trying to get back in and chucked out for cash

Why does he have the option of going quietly or loudly?!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Just looks a nice way of ensuring that we won’t take anybody, if I’m being cynical.

Via illegal routes, the number should be 0.

Even so, crossing two continents and the English Channel to claim asylum is obviously ridiculous. The 1951 Refugee Convention is not fit for purpose if left unreformed. Therefore, the proposal to amend the convention to only allow clams of refuge in the continent of origin makes sense and something I’d be in favour of.

 

[rob9872]

It was probably a question of giving him that so he went quietly or paying more to take him through the courts. If I were him I’d just turn it into a game at this point, keep trying to get back in and chucked out for cash

Could've just promised it him the other end if he was a good boy on the plane and then told him to fek off when he got there. What's he going to do at that point?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Via illegal routes, the number should be 0.

Even so, crossing two continents and the English Channel to claim asylum is obviously ridiculous. The 1951 Refugee Convention is not fit for purpose if left unreformed. Therefore, the proposal to amend the convention to only allow clams of refuge in the continent of origin makes sense and something I’d be in favour of.

At least by that measure we’d take some from Ukraine. I don’t know, it still reads like an attempt to weasel out of accepting anyone because there’s no acceptable way to come here that’s accessible to a refugee.

Apologies if I’ve read it wrong.

 

[rob9872]

At least by that measure we’d take some from Ukraine. I don’t know, it still reads like an attempt to weasel out of accepting anyone because there’s no acceptable way to come here that’s accessible to a refugee.

Apologies if I’ve read it wrong.

I can take two females, just need to explain to the wife and daughter that they're out.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Could've just promised it him the other end if he was a good boy on the plane and then told him to fek off when he got there. What's he going to do at that point?

Look, he just wanted to catch the end of the Watford game before he was bundled off. Maybe also try to grope a flight attendant for old time’s sake.

£500 is fair compensation.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

At least by that measure we’d take some from Ukraine. I don’t know, it still reads like an attempt to weasel out of accepting anyone because there’s no acceptable way to come here that’s accessible to a refugee.

Apologies if I’ve read it wrong.

Are Ukrainians arriving via small boat? I don’t think they are.

Ukraine also banned military aged men leaving the country. So the vast majority of refugees were women, children and the elderly.

I have a friend who fled Ukraine and her father was physically stopped at the border and had to present ID to prove he was above the age 60 (or whatever age it was to leave). This person also worked for a company that had bases in Europe so she just moved job in France initially, then to the UK on a salary where she’ll be a net tax contributor. In short, this person will be easily integrated and economically contribute.

Arrivals via small boat are 70-80% young men from nationalities with significantly higher propensities to committing crimes, claiming benefits or ending up in low income work. This is not a good deal for the British taxpayer and should not be allowed to stay if they’re a criminal or net-drain individual.

Claims of asylum and refuge are by definition, supposed to be temporary but as the UK and Europe found, this system is being used as a backdoor to permanent settlement.

 

[wingy]

Look, he just wanted to catch the end of the Watford game before he was bundled off. Maybe also try to grope a flight attendant for old time’s sake.

£500 is fair compensation.

One thing I noticed about him, he's better fed than many British people.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So basically, nothing is funny, you just don't have any counter arguments so again you come on a thread like this and just offer nothing of any value to the debate other than trying to derail it. You know you are wrong, basically.

The sneering from people like you and Torch is bizarre. Asking for data as whilst seemingly getting upset over the concept of these sort of conversations, apparently having no idea that someone from Afghanistan is more likely to commit a sexual offence than a British person, and then challenging a source, as if there are not stacks of them out there. Yeah sure, wheter it is 2x the amount or 200x the amount can be debated, but the question were 'are migrants committing more crime than British people' - as I said, this depends on what crime and what nationality they are. In this example with sexual crime however, there are many countries of which their citizens commit a higher percentage on British soil than Brits do. Hardly a surprise if you knew anything about how the world works.

I note one of your points is taken from a Guardian article called 'disputed or debunked claims about migration and crime UK', which means you really had not got anything of value to add when you left the laughing emoji, and went hunting for some information later when called out, which you clearly didn't even read anyway - as it also validates the point in the last paragraph.


Sorry, your response not only makes you look like an idiot, but also completely uninformed as well.

Did you pop some evidence up the thread for what you’re saying?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Did you pop some evidence up the thread for what you’re saying?

Yes, and the data comes from the MoJ.

 

[rob9872]

One thing I noticed about him, he's better fed than many British people.

Playing the long game, get fat and hide in plain sight with the rest of us fatties.

 

[Sick Boy]

Do you think people from Afghanistan commit a lower percentage of sexual crimes than British people do in the UK?

Do you think westerners commit a lower percentage of sexual crimes than Thais do in Thailand?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes, and the data comes from the MoJ.

Something more research based and accurate??

 

[rob9872]

Do you think westerners commit a lower percentage of sexual crimes than Thais do in Thailand?

Assuming westerners crime is higher ( I dont know btw) then the Thais would be fine in banning eg British Tourism. They won't though because not only are they there legally, but they spend a fortune there too, with tourism being high on their spend list. I'm not really sure of the correlation anyhow. We cant answer the question whether someone's a c**t by pointing out there are other cunts too.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Assuming westerners crime is higher ( I dont know btw) then the Thais would be fine in banning eg British Tourism. They won't though because not only are they there legally, but they spend a fortune there too, with tourism being high on their spend list. I'm not really sure of the correlation anyhow. We cant answer the question whether someone's a c**t by pointing out there are other cunts too.

You have a way with words

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Are Ukrainians arriving via small boat? I don’t think they are.

Ukraine also banned military aged men leaving the country. So the vast majority of refugees were women, children and the elderly.

I have a friend who fled Ukraine and her father was physically stopped at the border and had to present ID to prove he was above the age 60 (or whatever age it was to leave). This person also worked for a company that had bases in Europe so she just moved job in France initially, then to the UK on a salary where she’ll be a net tax contributor. In short, this person will be easily integrated and economically contribute.

Arrivals via small boat are 70-80% young men from nationalities with significantly higher propensities to committing crimes, claiming benefits or ending up in low income work. This is not a good deal for the British taxpayer and should not be allowed to stay if they’re a criminal or net-drain individual.

Claims of asylum and refuge are by definition, supposed to be temporary but as the UK and Europe found, this system is being used as a backdoor to permanent settlement.

Which brings me back to my original question: how is a refugee supposed to legally enter the country?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Which brings me back to my original question: how is a refugee supposed to legally enter the country?

They currently can’t

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They currently can’t

Yes, so really this is just an attempt to not accept anybody.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Do you think westerners commit a lower percentage of sexual crimes than Thais do in Thailand?

Raw numbers? No. As a % of population? Probably also no.

Something more research based and accurate??

The MoJ is not accurate? In fact, the true numbers could be higher because the 'British' will also include naturalised migrants as well as 2nd and 3rd generation migrants.

There's also comparative data to draw upon from countries like Denmark and Netherlands. Unfortunately for your position, the trends are consistent.

Casting doubt the way you do isn't as clever as you think it is.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes, so really this is just an attempt to not accept anybody.

Which is a legitimate argument but it won’t come without quid pro quo from other countries

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think you misunderstand my motives
I couldn’t give a shit at who thinks me clever or not clever but we need experts and we need good data to make accurate decisions

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is a legitimate argument but it won’t come without quid pro quo from other countries

Speaking of which, I’ve noticed a lot of similar unrest outside asylum seeker hotels in Ireland, but how are they getting there?

 

[Sick Boy]

Assuming westerners crime is higher ( I dont know btw) then the Thais would be fine in banning eg British Tourism. They won't though because not only are they there legally, but they spend a fortune there too, with tourism being high on their spend list. I'm not really sure of the correlation anyhow. We cant answer the question whether someone's a c**t by pointing out there are other cunts too.

My actual original reply was to challenge the highly dubious data source, which seems to be taken as a fact these days.

 

[rob9872]

how is a refugee supposed to legally enter the country?

Couldn't get his dick out of the chicken?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think it’s likely given the context of women’s rights in some of the countries that we have people coming from that a problem is very likely in how men treat women
Look at those on the anti immigrant rallies with a significant minority having domestic violence records
Men are the problem mainly maybe we should all leave

My actual original reply was to challenge the highly dubious data source, which seems to be taken as a fact these days.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Couldn't get his dick out of the chicken?

Sort your problems out yourself Robert