Immigration and Asylum (17 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Sure, then imagine being a law abiding Afghan being denied entry because some of his compatriots are criminals.

This a straw man and you’re better than that. If anyone is coming here legally and on a salary that means they’ll be a net-tax contributor, welcome.

To generalise, there aren’t too many high income migrants from low income countries arriving legally or illegally. Particularly, the example of Afghan nationals who are overrepresented in crime statistics and welfare dependency.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

This a straw man and you’re better than that. If anyone is coming here legally and on a salary that means they’ll be a net-tax contributor, welcome.

To generalise, there aren’t too many high income migrants from low income countries arriving legally or illegally. Particularly, the example of Afghan nationals who are overrepresented in crime statistics and welfare dependency.

I was more referring to asylum seekers. And it isn’t a straw man, at least one poster on here said ‘ban all Muslims’.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Channel migrant murdered man at random after asylum rejected

Somalian national Haybe Cabdiraxmaan Nur, 47, plunged a knife into the chest of father-of-three Gurvinder Singh Johal, 37 at a Lloyds Bank in Derby, before 'calmly' walking out of the branch.

mol.im

They add so much to society

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He will be back next week and get some more!

I would bet on it. Probably get a grand next time

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No, I don’t think this is being blown out of proportion at all and MoJ data actually supports this.

From what I gather, you do seem to acknowledge that there’s a problem with migrant crime. Is that correct?

The secondary issue is that successive governments have shown they’re incapable of deporting migrants/asylum seekers when they commit crimes.

Farage wouldn’t be in business if one of the previous governments actually had the political will to resolve these issues. Starmer and Sunak have both made the same issue of staking their personal reputations on resolving the small boats issue and on their watches, it’s got worse.

I suspect Farage will end up exactly the same as the likes of Starmer and Sunak before him.

Should he actually get into no.10 he won't be able to do the things the public actually want, and those that his does will lead to easily foreseeable problems elsewhere such as a lack of workers in certain sectors or increasing debt/taxes/prices to pay for increased wages to cover the shortfall.

I predict that should reform get in we will see living standards decrease, prices of pretty much all goods and services go up (especially in sectors like energy) while wages stagnate as they cosy up to big business and put their profits above the needs of consumers, public services to get immeasurably worse as they cut taxes on businesses and the rich and for them to at the very least try and privatise them leading to even higher costs and overall poorer care for individuals. And alongside that I expect them to barely make a dent in the immigration issue, partly due to them not understanding the complexities of it and partly due to their close relationship with big business wanting migrants to keep wages down. Don't forget Farage spent years telling us we needed to leave the EU to sort immigration - it hasn't. He's fucking clueless.

If Reform get in they're going to make Starmer and Labour look incredibly competent. Fuck it, even the likes of Boris would look like he had more of a clue.

 

[SBAndy]

@SBAndy you will have to explain the humour in this one. I'm not sure exactly how it manges to earn the laughing emoji badge.

Oh just a couple of things:

- the cheek of you to accuse someone (think it was BSB) of being too deep into Reddit then producing a report by a Reform activist as a source.
- the methodology basing offending rates on 2021 populations when we are hugely aware that some of those population masses have grown significantly since then. Assessing 2023 crime figures vs 2021 population of Afghans or Albanians is going to bring about inconsistencies in the data.

FWIW I’d seen this before (it may have even been you that posted it on here?). To be fair, it is mildly frustrating that we don’t keep better track of data.

 

[torchomatic]

Channel migrant murdered man at random after asylum rejected

Somalian national Haybe Cabdiraxmaan Nur, 47, plunged a knife into the chest of father-of-three Gurvinder Singh Johal, 37 at a Lloyds Bank in Derby, before 'calmly' walking out of the branch.

mol.im

They add so much to society

Shame we couldn't swap all our UK born rapists and murderers (who add nothing to society) and swap them for all those migrants who keep our NHS and care homes running.

They definitely do add to society.

 

[oscillatewildly]

All I want for Christmas is a stab proof vest.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Shame we couldn't swap all our UK born rapists and murderers (who add nothing to society) and swap them for all those migrants who keep our NHS and care homes running.

They definitely do add to society.

The NHS workers are legal and proper. I doubt many came over on dingy. Same people always sticking up for them.

 

[Sick Boy]

It depends what criminal offences you are talking about, and the figures also vary based on country.

For example, people from Luxembourg in the UK will commit less crime, but people from Afghanistan significantly more.

Unsurprisingly, those from countries or religious backgrounds that treat women like second class citizens are overrepresented in sexual crime statistics. Here is a good example:

View attachment 46856

There were 87 nationalities with a higher conviction rate for sexual offences than the British population. In 2024, these nationalities were awarded 557,041 long-term visas by the Home Office. (Source)

That source looks very reliable.

 

[Evo1883]

Shame we couldn't swap all our UK born rapists and murderers (who add nothing to society) and swap them for all those migrants who keep our NHS and care homes running.

They definitely do add to society.

Wed all love to stop uk born rapists and murderers torch , but to suggest that allowing hundreds of thousands of migrants in many unvetted every year is a good thing is frankly bonkers .

Its actually irritating at this point why so many people will bend over backward to defend the current issues we have

absolutely nothing be it housing , school classrooms , hospital waiting times , crime rates etc can be attributed to mass immigration ..instead the people moaning about it are the bad ones , its all in our immaginations . give over mate

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wed all love to stop uk born rapists and murderers torch , but to suggest that allowing hundreds of thousands of migrants in many unvetted every year is a good thing is frankly bonkers .

Its actually irritating at this point why so many people will bend over backward to defend the current issues we have

absolutely nothing be it housing , school classrooms , hospital waiting times , crime rates etc can be attributed to mass immigration ..instead the people moaning about it are the bad ones , its all in our immaginations . give over mate

Who has said that’s what they think we should do?

 

[Evo1883]

Who has said that’s what they think we should do?

Do what ?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do what ?

Allow hundreds of thousands in unvetted

 

[Evo1883]

Allow hundreds of thousands in unvetted

We are though , but you all defend it no matter what

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We are though , but you all defend it no matter what

Apart from on the previous page to this where i specifically state these are issues and talk about what many would consider a draconian measure to keep those coming in on the straight and narrow or get deported.

How about reading what's actually written, not what you think or want to have been written?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We are though , but you all defend it no matter what

Asylum seekers have to have claims accepted to stay here

Economic migrants have to gain permission too

So who’s unvetted?

 

[Evo1883]

Apart from on the previous page to this where i specifically state these are issues and talk about what many would consider a draconian measure to keep those coming in on the straight and narrow or get deported.

How about reading what's actually written, not what you think or want to have been written?

Well there are hundreds of posts on this forum dismissing the housing crisis , school numbers , hospital waiting times etc as funding issues ... there are massive amounts of deflections in regards to crime in this country and the role mass immigration has played in that , ive been reading it on here for years

 

[Evo1883]

Asylum seekers have to have claims accepted to stay here

Economic migrants have to gain permission too

So who’s unvetted?

Theres estimates of 1 million plus illegal migrants estimates are always under played too , you know it i know it

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I was more referring to asylum seekers. And it isn’t a straw man, at least one poster on here said ‘ban all Muslims’.

Anyone who arrives illegally should be barred from entry altogether, no exceptions.

I disagree with the principle of banning based on religion but the system needs to be more restrictive towards nationalities that tend to be economically unproductive and are overrepresented in crime statistics. To use an example, over 40% of Congolese migrants end up on benefits.

The universal welfare state cannot survive supporting 20-50% of certain groups.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Theres estimates of 1 million plus illegal migrants estimates are always under played too , you know it i know it

Don’t think anyone’s happy with that

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Anyone who arrives illegally should be barred from entry altogether, no exceptions.

I disagree with the principle of banning based on religion but the system needs to be more restrictive towards nationalities that tend to be economically unproductive and are overrepresented in crime statistics. To use an example, over 40% of Congolese migrants end up on benefits.

The universal welfare state cannot survive supporting 20-50% of certain groups.

Then you want to violate the refugee convention (or leave it). Which is fine, but to be clear that’s the only way we do that with asylum seekers.

 

[rob9872]

Don’t think anyone’s happy with that

I've just come off the phone with Gary Lineker and Jeremy Corbyn and they want us to double our intake.

Edit: Jeremy said he wants more paedos too (but not Prince Andrew)

 

[Grendel]

Then you want to violate the refugee convention (or leave it). Which is fine, but to be clear that’s the only way we do that with asylum seekers.

The convention was to be fair supposed to be for people desperately fleeing persecution - it’s clearly being manipulated and the opening of borders in Europe now allows people to come across many countries that are safe then end up here.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've just come off the phone with Gary Lineker and Jeremy Corbyn and they want us to double our intake.

Corbyn’s only asking for that to hide from Sultana

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The convention was to be fair supposed to be for people desperately fleeing persecution - it’s clearly being manipulated and the opening of borders in Europe now allows people to come across many countries that are safe then end up here.

There were also millions upon millions of displaced people at that time, and Britain was still rebuilding itself. We didn’t pull up the drawbridge then and I’m not convinced why we should be doing it now.

 

[Grendel]

There were also millions upon millions of displaced people at that time, and Britain was still rebuilding itself. We didn’t pull up the drawbridge then and I’m not convinced why we should be doing it now.

The situation is now different though and I do find it strange that people fleeing from persecution would not claim asylum in the first country they entered that offers safety. Then they could apply for a visa to the uk if they meet the necessary criteria.

 

[rob9872]

The situation is now different though and I do find it strange that people fleeing from persecution would not claim asylum in the first country they entered that offers safety. Then they could apply for a visa to the uk if they meet the necessary criteria.

It's coming any minute now ... that we don't take as many as other countries ... I can feel it, not too far away .. hold tight

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The situation is now different though and I do find it strange that people fleeing from persecution would not claim asylum in the first country they entered that offers safety. Then they could apply for a visa to the uk if they meet the necessary criteria.

Is it different? If anything the European countries of that time were much more poorly equipped and were coping with movements of many more people.

I’m open to discussing how the convention should be adapted for modern times, but it’s a risk precedent to set to punish someone fleeing for their own safety based on how they got here.

 

[Grendel]

Is it different? If anything the European countries of that time were much more poorly equipped and were coping with movements of many more people.

I’m open to discussing how the convention should be adapted for modern times, but it’s a risk precedent to set to punish someone fleeing for their own safety based on how they got here.

It’s different because the EU changed from a trading common market and then allowed freedom of entry across member states. The Somalian guy who was saying he was 19 but was 27 tried out Italy and Germany and didn’t fancy it so came here. By any definition he isn’t seeking sanctuary here at all is he?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Then you want to violate the refugee convention (or leave it). Which is fine, but to be clear that’s the only way we do that with asylum seekers.

The majority of the electorate accept that trade off. This is how leaving the ECHR has gone from fringe opinion to the mainstream in little over a year.

The current frameworks are just not working for us (or Europe) and there’s no sign of that changing. This is an issue that seems to be impacting Europe the most so perhaps we adapt similar regimes that Australia, Japan and the USA adhere too.

Japan’s grants around 1% (or thereabouts) of asylum claims, peaking at 9%. In the UK, our rate peaked at 76% in 2022 and before the Human Rights Act was enacted in law, it was around 8%.

Clearly the problem lies somewhere with the passing of the Human Rights Act that enshrined th ECHR in UK law. This is something David Blunkett and Jack Straw recognise when calling to reverse a measure they voted for. It’s clearly had v unintended consequences.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s different because the EU changed from a trading common market and then allowed freedom of entry across member states. The Somalian guy who was saying he was 19 but was 27 tried out Italy and Germany and didn’t fancy it so came here. By any definition he isn’t seeking sanctuary here at all is he?

In his specific case yeah I agree with you. My own preference for how to deal with this is something I’ve described elsewhere.

 

[rob9872]

In his specific case yeah I agree with you. My own preference for how to deal with this is something I’ve described elsewhere.

Did it involve being strung up from a great height by the bollocks?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The majority of the electorate accept that trade off. This is how leaving the ECHR has gone from fringe opinion to the mainstream in little over a year.

The current frameworks are just not working for us (or Europe) and there’s no sign of that changing. This is an issue that seems to be impacting Europe the most so perhaps we adapt similar regimes that Australia, Japan and the USA adhere too.

Japan’s grants around 1% (or thereabouts) of asylum claims, peaking at 9%. In the UK, our rate peaked at 76% in 2022 and before the Human Rights Act was enacted in law, it was around 8%.

Clearly the problem lies somewhere with the passing of the Human Rights Act that enshrined th ECHR in UK law. This is something David Blunkett and Jack Straw recognise when calling to reverse a measure they voted for. It’s clearly had v unintended consequences.

Though it does make me ask the question-how exactly is someone fleeing a threat to their lives meant to come here legally?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Did it involve being strung up from a great height by the bollocks?

Oi, only the wife does that