Israel - Palestinian Conflict (13 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

Was October 7th 2023 genocide?

No, it was a vile terrorist attack.

It is possible to think what is happening in Gaza is Genocide and not support Hamas you know.

 

---

[fernandopartridge]

Polling is unreliable in the West Bank and Gaza, but the data we have suggests there was widespread support for Hamas’ actions on October 7th 2023. 72% polled supported kicking this conflict off. With neighbours like that, the prospects of a peaceful two-state solution is little to none.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

They are not "neighbours" they are occupied people you idiot

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Are you shocked that a population that has seen its infrastructure levelled and its neighbour attempt to basically force them from their lands may rightly or wrongly side with anyone who can be seen to oppose that?

This includes the West Bank who were more supportive of Hamas’ incursion than in Gaza…

The polling was published in Dec 2023 so was conducted shortly after the events.

 

[David O'Day]

There was a Jewish student in Birmingham who phoned in to 5 Live and said he will not attend the game as he fears he will be targeted,

Why would he be targeted? Jewish people go to Villa games all the time, Sick Boy has a Jewish friend who has an Villa ST.

What evidence is there that Jewish people will be targeted at the game?

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Jewish people aren't banned from Villa Park? The supporters of a team with a history of violence have been.

Are Jewish Villa fans banned?

Lots of teams have a history of violence, Birmingham fans aren't banned when they play there. Always violence before and after

 

[David O'Day]

This includes the West Bank who were more supportive of Hamas’ incursion than in Gaza…

The polling was published in Dec 2023 so was conducted shortly after the events.

After the Genocide had started.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Why would he be targeted? Jewish people go to Villa games all the time, Sick Boy has a Jewish friend who has an Villa ST.

What evidence is there that Jewish people will be targeted at the game?

Why are they banned then

 

[SBT]

Ban Muslims and those fuckin stupid Palestine marches instead. Just saying like

Just out of curiosity, who do you reckon is more radical: the average working class Israeli or Palestinian?

I think you two are looking for a somewhat more extreme message board. At least, I hope you are.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No, it was a vile terrorist attack.

It is possible to think what is happening in Gazi is Genocide and not support Hamas you know.

Hang on, Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. It’s not a terrorist attack at all.

It was actual genocide. They deliberately targeted non-combatants and civilian areas away from military targets. The IDF weren’t embedded in the Kibbutz or supernova festival.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, I don’t. Hamas deliberately embeds itself in civilian infrastructure.

It’s not a conventional war (lik Ukraine-Russia) where there is a clear demarcation between military frontlines and civilian, non-combatant areas. Even so, civilian casualties is an ugly feature of war.

This is obviously more of a rhetorical question because none of us are military experts here, but how do you conduct a war in an area like Gaza?

The UN disagrees with you.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

Israeli ministers have called for mass relocations of the Gazan population and the concentration of the whole population in a big open air camp in the south of the strip. The IDF far from accidentally killing civilians in military operations has killed people queuing for aid, attacked aid convoys and withheld food and medical supplies from reaching civilians. Those are, at a bare minimum, war crimes and are why there are warrants out for the arrest of Netanyahu and some of his ministers.

I thank you for being honest though, you just don't want to call it what it is.

 

[PVA]

What the fuck you on about, basically Jewish people are banned from the game. The local MP wants it.

No they aren't. Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are banned from attending.

 

[Grendel]

Why would he be targeted? Jewish people go to Villa games all the time, Sick Boy has a Jewish friend who has an Villa ST.

What evidence is there that Jewish people will be targeted at the game?

I am merely relaying what the guy said on a phone in programme. Its his thoughts and feelings.

 

[chiefdave]

I don’t support any football fans being banned because the authorities should be on top of it.

I must have missed you posting at a similar rate when this has occurred previously

Why have you quoted the definition of antisemitism? It’s one thing to conflate British Jewish people as Israeli. Quite another to say banning Israeli football fans is an act targeting Jews when Tel Aviv is a city that is 90% Jewish.

I explained why. Because people, including our prime minister, are declaring it is anti-semetic to ban football supporters of a specific club. There's also being claims thrown around that Jewish people are banned from Villa Park which is just not true.

On your comments regarding Tel Aviv hooliganism in Amsterdam last year, your narrative doesn’t fit the facts on the ground

I made no mention of Amsterdam. A quick read of the history of this club would suggest that just focusing on Amsterdam is missing the bigger picture.

There's a history of their supporters abusing even their own players, even down to players at youth level being forced out of the club, they have a Zionist owner who allows his beliefs to influence their signings, their supports have a long standing reputation for violence & racism, and not only at games, there are reports of them turning up to anti-Netanyahu protests and attacking protesters.

Its one thing to say that the ban is wrong but lets not pretend they are just a nice group of lads who want a couple of days in Brum watching a game. I'm sure there's some supporters who are perfectly capable of behaving themselves but they do appear to have a disproportionate number intent on trouble.

 

[David O'Day]

Why are they banned then

They aren't banned, see Sick Boys post about his friend who is a Villa ST holder and Jewish. I also know Dan who is the Villa ticketing manager and their is no ban on Jewish Villa Fans. You probably need to stop believing everything you read online.

 

[Macca]

The pertinent question is why are these fans not guaranteed safe passage in our second biggest city? There wouldn’t be concerns if Tel Aviv were playing in Oxford.

The multicultural dream is that we become this melting pot with shared common values.

Two ironies here:
- Jenrick just got pilloried by some parts of the media for decrying lack of integration in Handsworth
- Polanski mae a heart warming video on multiculturalism is in Birmingham

The SAG and WMP have recommended against having away fans because they can’t guarantee the safety of a group of football fans who will mostly be Jewish because of the wider demographics of Birmingham.

If the police had intelligence that it could kick off with local Birmingham populations and when you have a local cleric inciting certain things, it’s really not a good look for Britain.



No, I don’t.

The Dutch authorities actually condemned what could be described as ‘Jew hunts’ from the local population. It’s only left wing journos/outlets who seem to place the blame on Tel Aviv fans.

The SAG and WMP have said that the

Of the arrests in Amsterdam last year, a small % were Tel Aviv fans. The majority that were arrested were locals. This narrative that it was Tel Aviv ultras tearing up the city is nonsense. Yes, there was bad behaviour and chanting on their side.

Back to this, we have hosted football fans with much worse reputations than Tel Aviv so it’s v apparent that this isn’t about football hooliganism.

You cryptically put the ‘recent political environment’. Be honest about what you mean here. The concerns over safety of Israeli football fans isn’t because of middle-class Palestine Action protestors you regularly see in Birmingham. Its concerns are with it kicking off with the locals who have cleric who called Tel Aviv footballs fans visiting Birmingham as ‘the IDF’ and that the usual rule of Islam are disapplied - which is incitement.

But it is what it is. The world isn't fair. A combination of (elements of) extreme Islamists, Far right Israeli fans, far left Antifa members and the usual idiots that attend matches and you have carnage. Why should the people of Birmingham have to put up with that for a poxy football match

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What the fuck you on about, basically Jewish people are banned from the game. The local MP wants it.

'Ban Muslims'

From where?

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

They aren't banned, see Sick Boys post about his friend who is a Villa ST holder and Jewish. I also know Dan who is the Villa ticketing manager and their is no ban on Jewish Villa Fans. You probably need to stop believing everything you read online.

The local Muslim MP wants the Jewish fans of the away team banned. You should watch the news more. Even the prime minister wants it reversed

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The local Muslim MP wants the Jewish fans of the away team banned. You should watch the news more. Even the prime minister wants it reversed

Not all Israelis are Jews, sounds very anti-Semitic of you to make the assumption.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

No they aren't. Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are banned from attending.

Because they are Jewish, any other team with a history of violence are not banned

 

[PVA]

Hang on, Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. It’s not a terrorist attack at all.

It was actual genocide. They deliberately targeted non-combatants and civilian areas away from military targets. The IDF weren’t embedded in the Kibbutz or supernova festival.

Genocide is the intent to destroy the whole or 'substantial' part of a group.

What they did on that day was clearly horrific beyond words, but I don't think they intended or expected to wipe out a substantial part of Israel on that day.

Whereas Israel have quite clearly intended to wipe out probably all, but at the very least a substantial part of, Palestinians.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Genocide is the intent to destroy the whole or 'substantial' part of a group.

What they did on that day was clearly horrific beyond words, but I don't think they intended or expected to wipe out a substantial part of Israel on that day.

Whereas Israel have quite clearly intended to wipe out probably all, but at the very least a substantial part of, Palestinians.

Nah, the UN is run by anti-Semites

 

[David O'Day]

The local Muslim MP wants the Jewish fans of the away team banned. You should watch the news more. Even the prime minister wants it reversed

So they have not been banned then, just that someone has said they think they should be?

The PM wants the banning of the supporters of a particular club reversed, he hasn't mentioned the banning of "jewish fans" at all.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Not all Israelis are Jews, sounds very anti-Semitic of you to make the assumption.

How many Muslims follow Jewish football teams then, got your blinkers on as normal. Now go and tell everybody ' I was a teacher you know '

 

[chiefdave]

Because they are Jewish, any other team with a history of violence are not banned

This is not true is it, there's been examples in this thread of other games in this competition where fans have been banned.

 

[Grendel]

So they have not been banned then, just that someone has said they think they should be?

The PM wants the banning of the supporters of a particular club reversed, he hasn't mentioned the banning of "jewish fans" at all.

Starmer said the ban was anti semetic

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Not all Israelis are Jews, sounds very anti-Semitic of you to make the assumption.

Tel Aviv is a city whose population is 90% Jewish. That accusation of anti-semitism is childish.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

40% of American Jews are not only wrong, they're also anti-Semitic

MSN

 

[David O'Day]

Not all Israelis are Jews, sounds very anti-Semitic of you to make the assumption.

I mean almost 20% of the population of Israel itself are Muslims.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Tel Aviv is a city whose population is 90% Jewish. That accusation of anti-semitism is childish.

They can have fans from other parts of Israel who want to go to the match. Jewish Aston Villa fans haven't been banned have they?

Jews haven't been banned from attending. Conflating Israeli nationality with being Jewish is an anti-Semitic act.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How many Muslims follow Jewish football teams then, got your blinkers on as normal. Now go and tell everybody ' I was a teacher you know '

I didn't 'tell everybody', I was asked repeatedly by a poster who kept bringing it up on his own.

What separates a Jewish football team from an Israeli one? How do you tell the difference?

Keep digging this anti-Semitic hole btw.

 

[rob9872]

They still need support in the ground though, so the away end should be opened up to season ticket holders from us, Blues or West Brom instead.

 

[chiefdave]

How many Muslims follow Jewish football teams then, got your blinkers on as normal. Now go and tell everybody ' I was a teacher you know '

Meet the non-Jewish players on Israel's national football team - The Jewish Chronicle

The inclusion of Muslim, Druze, and Arab players challenges the oversimplified narrative that all Israelis are Jewish

www.thejc.com

 

[rob9872]

What separates a Jewish football team from an Israeli one? How do you tell the difference?

Circumcision

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I mean almost 20% of the population of Israel itself are Muslims.

It's not like Muslims also play for the Israeli national team wait what

Meet the non-Jewish players on Israel's national football team - The Jewish Chronicle

The inclusion of Muslim, Druze, and Arab players challenges the oversimplified narrative that all Israelis are Jewish

www.thejc.com

 

[TomRad85]

Starmer said the ban was anti semetic

So has Ed Davey, it seems to be deeply unpopular across most the political divide other than Islamists and fringe left wingers.