Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Tory's desperately scraping the barrel by staying they will scrap stamp duty.

The tory conference is deserted, even the lobbyists can't be bothered to show up. Was quite funny seeing Badenoch interviewed on BBC Breakfast denying the halls were empty for the speeches with the BBC having a split screen of her and footage of empty halls during the speeches.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

The tory conference is deserted, even the lobbyists can't be bothered to show up. Was quite funny seeing Badenoch interviewed on BBC Breakfast denying the halls were empty for the speeches with the BBC having a split screen of her and footage of empty halls during the speeches.

I was in Manchester city centre on Tuesday, it's previously been quite obvious the Tory conference is on but yes, extremely quiet this year. The lobbyists are all with Labour now no doubt.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Government of all the talents latest

 

[fernandopartridge]

It is high time for the government to tell the Treasury that is not elected and not in charge:

UK Treasury tells ministers not to expect bailouts from its reserve fund

Departments told to manage their own cost pressures as finance ministry seeks to curb overuse of contingency fund

www.theguardian.com

That said, would you trust the existing government to spend anything with demonstrable cluelessness as exhibited here:

Pubs to stay open until early hours in push for UK growth

Exclusive: Plans for England and Wales would help the ailing hospitality sector but have attracted criticism from health experts

www.theguardian.com

 

[chiefdave]

Government of all the talents latest

Not a surprise. It appears that the government was advised against this from multiple sources for various reasons including the difficulty in ever obtaining a conviction, disproportionate use of resources that would distract from work on actual terrorism and loss of public confidence in the application of terrorism laws but decided they knew best.

Since then its been chaotic at best. Hundreds of people arrested and released without charge at no doubt a not insignificant cost (they've had to build temporary facilities to process the number of people arrested), resources being moved from other areas as there is simply not the available resources to deal with the number of people involved, the postcode lottery of some forces deciding not to enforce this in any meaningful way, other areas where it is being enforced having no clue what they are doing and arresting anyone protesting whether they mention PA or not.

Its been a complete shambles.

 

[chiefdave]

It is high time for the government to tell the Treasury that is not elected and not in charge:

UK Treasury tells ministers not to expect bailouts from its reserve fund

Departments told to manage their own cost pressures as finance ministry seeks to curb overuse of contingency fund

www.theguardian.com

That said, would you trust the existing government to spend anything with demonstrable cluelessness as exhibited here:

Pubs to stay open until early hours in push for UK growth

Exclusive: Plans for England and Wales would help the ailing hospitality sector but have attracted criticism from health experts

www.theguardian.com

How long do we reckon it will be after they let the pubs stay open longer before we get 'we have no idea why there's been a sudden rise in anti-social behavior'?

 

[fatso]

How long do we reckon it will be after they let the pubs stay open longer before we get 'we have no idea why there's been a sudden rise in anti-social behavior'?

Who can afford to drink past 11pm anyway

And once Rachael's next budget comes out, you'd be lucky to see your local pubs still in business

 

[wingy]

Who can afford to drink past 11pm anyway

Clueless aren't they.
Guess there's some but they won't be the type that takes up the offer,be crims of some sort or people that own swathes of buy to let, HMO property maybe!

 

[SBT]

Not a surprise. It appears that the government was advised against this from multiple sources for various reasons including the difficulty in ever obtaining a conviction, disproportionate use of resources that would distract from work on actual terrorism and loss of public confidence in the application of terrorism laws but decided they knew best.

Since then its been chaotic at best. Hundreds of people arrested and released without charge at no doubt a not insignificant cost (they've had to build temporary facilities to process the number of people arrested), resources being moved from other areas as there is simply not the available resources to deal with the number of people involved, the postcode lottery of some forces deciding not to enforce this in any meaningful way, other areas where it is being enforced having no clue what they are doing and arresting anyone protesting whether they mention PA or not.

Its been a complete shambles.

It’s generated immense publicity and not inconsiderable support for an organisation that might otherwise have been a fringe group that faded into obscurity.

 

[wingy]

Been leant on I'm sure .

 

[fernandopartridge]

How long do we reckon it will be after they let the pubs stay open longer before we get 'we have no idea why there's been a sudden rise in anti-social behavior'?

The reality is that many pubs close earlier than their license permits, if they even open at all some days. There is just not the customer demand to support later opening. The government has got its head in the sand completely.

 

[Ccfc_Addy]

The cost of living has become so obscene that the majority of people either can't afford to go to the pub at all or push it far down their list of priorities; that this pointless exercise has been announced the same day it's been confirmed that water bills are about to shoot up again is bleakly funny.

 

[chiefdave]

The reality is that many pubs close earlier than their license permits, if they even open at all some days. There is just not the customer demand to support later opening. The government has got its head in the sand completely.

Used to book for a small music venue in London, same thing. Cost of everything was so high that if you weren't putting 100 people through the door it was financially better to close for the night.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Not a surprise. It appears that the government was advised against this from multiple sources for various reasons including the difficulty in ever obtaining a conviction, disproportionate use of resources that would distract from work on actual terrorism and loss of public confidence in the application of terrorism laws but decided they knew best.

Since then its been chaotic at best. Hundreds of people arrested and released without charge at no doubt a not insignificant cost (they've had to build temporary facilities to process the number of people arrested), resources being moved from other areas as there is simply not the available resources to deal with the number of people involved, the postcode lottery of some forces deciding not to enforce this in any meaningful way, other areas where it is being enforced having no clue what they are doing and arresting anyone protesting whether they mention PA or not.

Its been a complete shambles.

They broke into an RAF base and damaged military aircraft, amongst other disruption around the UK which has effected production in factories, and emergency services having to use resources managing their childish behaviour on multiple occasions.

The only thing that is a shambles is this weird sympathy for them.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

They broke into an RAF base and damaged military aircraft, amongst other disruption around the UK which has effected production in factories, and emergency services having to use resources managing their childish behaviour on multiple occasions.

The only thing that is a shambles is this weird sympathy for them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

They broke into an RAF base and damaged military aircraft, amongst other disruption around the UK which has effected production in factories, and emergency services having to use resources managing their childish behaviour on multiple occasions.

The only thing that is a shambles is this weird sympathy for them.

I'm sure you'll change your tune when a campaign you're in support of is banned using the same powers

 

[fernandopartridge]

The cost of living has become so obscene that the majority of people either can't afford to go to the pub at all or push it far down their list of priorities; that this pointless exercise has been announced the same day it's been confirmed that water bills are about to shoot up again is bleakly funny.

Water bills of course go up for pubs as well. Honestly, I don't know if it is just deliberate ignorance or pure stupidity on the part of the government.

 

[chiefdave]

They broke into an RAF base and damaged military aircraft, amongst other disruption around the UK which has effected production in factories, and emergency services having to use resources managing their childish behaviour on multiple occasions.

The only thing that is a shambles is this weird sympathy for them.

Are you suggesting that before they became a proscribed organisation there was no possible means of charging individuals with any crime when they break into a RAF base and damage military aircraft? That seems to be a massive loophole the government should act to close.

Instead they've chosen to ignore all the advise given and given PA more publicity than they could have ever dreamed of. An organisation nobody had heard of a few months ago, whose protests were attended by a handful of people, now have thousands of people protesting in support of them.

Its not about sympathy for any particular group, its about blatant misuse of powers. No doubt it will be cheered on from some sides until they find the same rules that have been introduced are then applied to them.

 

[Captain Dart]

Are you suggesting that before they became a proscribed organisation there was no possible means of charging individuals with any crime when they break into a RAF base and damage military aircraft? That seems to be a massive loophole the government should act to close.

Instead they've chosen to ignore all the advise given and given PA more publicity than they could have ever dreamed of. An organisation nobody had heard of a few months ago, whose protests were attended by a handful of people, now have thousands of people protesting in support of them.

Its not about sympathy for any particular group, its about blatant misuse of powers. No doubt it will be cheered on from some sides until they find the same rules that have been introduced are then applied to them.

There is a explanation, this is the Chinese Year of the Cockwomble.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I'm sure you'll change your tune when a campaign you're in support of is banned using the same powers

It depends what the campaign is doing.

Whilst the government are currently power hungry, I don't understand how anyone can get protective or apologetic for organisations who go round attacking our air bases.

 

[chiefdave]

Whilst the government are currently power hungry, I don't understand how anyone can get protective or apologetic for organisations who go round attacking our air bases.

I don't think you're listening to the points anyone is making. Its not about being apologetic for any action against airbases or destruction of military equipment, I've not seen a single post suggesting the law as it was at the time should not be applied to PA.

Its about the government undertaking performative nonsense that the experts, with far more knowledge of things like the law and how anti terrorism works in this country, are telling them at best are not needed and at worst will negatively impact work to prevent terrorism.

The government have then doubled down and continue to do so making a problem of their own creation far worse.

Government overreach should not only be a bad thing if you believe in the 'campaign' being targeted. We've now moved past the proscription of PA and onto changing the law around protesting which will of course impact every group.

And even if you are just basing your opinion on what 'the campaign is doing' surely you would be against the governments course of action as they have made the campaign far stronger than they could have ever hoped it would be.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I don't think you're listening to the points anyone is making. Its not about being apologetic for any action against airbases or destruction of military equipment, I've not seen a single post suggesting the law as it was at the time should not be applied to PA.

Its about the government undertaking performative nonsense that the experts, with far more knowledge of things like the law and how anti terrorism works in this country, are telling them at best are not needed and at worst will negatively impact work to prevent terrorism.

The government have then doubled down and continue to do so making a problem of their own creation far worse.

Government overreach should not only be a bad thing if you believe in the 'campaign' being targeted. We've now moved past the proscription of PA and onto changing the law around protesting which will of course impact every group.

And even if you are just basing your opinion on what 'the campaign is doing' surely you would be against the governments course of action as they have made the campaign far stronger than they could have ever hoped it would be.

I am listening, but the points being put forward are just nonsense. All it is more or less is an apology campaign for terrorist-like behaviour from these people. If they were just quietly protesting you would certainly have a point, and I would agree with you, but if you're getting upset about what the government is doing then you haven't been paying attention when they have overreached on protests from other organisations in the past.

What the campaign is doing is relevant. If they started executing people in the street and then follow it up with a protest, you can't really get upset about the ambitions to stop the latter. There are also many other ways to support the Palestinian campaign without jumping into bed with people that attack air bases. Yet, that's what people have done.

I am not a fan of the government shutting down peaceful protests, but you are significantly overlooking the behaviour of this organisation, and they clearly are problematic.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Is this any good for you Mr Trump? Imagine being as stupid to vote for this dweeb

This has come straight from recommendations by the Tony Blair Institute to be clear.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I am listening, but the points being put forward are just nonsense. All it is more or less is an apology campaign for terrorist-like behaviour from these people. If they were just quietly protesting you would certainly have a point, and I would agree with you, but if you're getting upset about what the government is doing then you haven't been paying attention when they have overreached on protests from other organisations in the past.

What the campaign is doing is relevant. If they started executing people in the street and then follow it up with a protest, you can't really get upset about the ambitions to stop the latter. There are also many other ways to support the Palestinian campaign without jumping into bed with people that attack air bases. Yet, that's what people have done.

I am not a fan of the government shutting down peaceful protests, but you are significantly overlooking the behaviour of this organisation, and they clearly are problematic.

It's not that difficult.

Charge those that broke into the airbase and damaged military equipment to the full extent of the law because it's likely to lead to a conviction and send a message about doing that.

Don't charge those that go around waving a flag and saying they support Palestine Action because it's going to take up a huge amount of police time and resources and very unlikely to end up in prosecution. And even if it did what purpose would putting those people in jail (and the costs involved with that) serve?

 

[chiefdave]

It's not that difficult.

Charge those that broke into the airbase and damaged military equipment to the full extent of the law because it's likely to lead to a conviction and send a message about doing that.

Don't charge those that go around waving a flag and saying they support Palestine Action because it's going to take up a huge amount of police time and resources and very unlikely to end up in prosecution. And even if it did what purpose would putting those people in jail (and the costs involved with that) serve?

It's really that simple.

 

[chiefdave]

Crazy to think we're at a point where we're not far off neither Labour or Conservative being in the top two parties in the country

 

[oscillatewildly]

I quite like Polanski and liked his video promoting the green's. Seems fairly normal.

The man is an absolute head banging lunatic.
I'd be tempted to say he's in good company if it wasn't for the fact the rest are rank amateurs by comparison.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Pubs have been closing for 40 years as people drink at home instead and closures of few left have accelerated since 2020.

Who can afford to drink past 11pm anyway

And once Rachael's next budget comes out, you'd be lucky to see your local pubs still in business

 

[rob9872]

It's not that difficult.

Charge those that broke into the airbase and damaged military equipment to the full extent of the law because it's likely to lead to a conviction and send a message about doing that.

Don't charge those that go around waving a flag and saying they support Palestine Action because it's going to take up a huge amount of police time and resources and very unlikely to end up in prosecution. And even if it did what purpose would putting those people in jail (and the costs involved with that) serve?

What if they were Nazi flags? Or pro IRA? Would your stance be the same? If you’re consistent I have no issue, but the police have no choice to decide which laws they agree with.

 

[PVA]

Crazy to think we're at a point where we're not far off neither Labour or Conservative being in the top two parties in the country

And just to underline how fucked the Tories are:

Christ almighty they are absolutely cooked.

 

[mmttww]

What if they were Nazi flags? Or pro IRA? Would your stance be the same? If you’re consistent I have no issue, but the police have no choice to decide which laws they agree with.

that's kind of the point, isn't it? PA have been put on a list with - and given the same status as - groups whose actions and / or stated aims don't seem empirically comparable to theirs.

I don't think anyone on here is getting at the police, kinda the opposite. Folks seem frustrated that they're being asked to spend time and resources arresting OAPs posing no threat.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Crazy to think we're at a point where we're not far off neither Labour or Conservative being in the top two parties in the country

Ungovernable will take a generation to sort out how to manage

 

[rob9872]

that's kind of the point, isn't it? PA have been put on a list with - and given the same status as - groups whose actions and / or stated aims don't seem empirically comparable to theirs.

I don't think anyone on here is getting at the police, kinda the opposite. Folks seem frustrated that they're being asked to spend time and resources arresting OAPs posing no threat.

I'm not disagreeing with you but again if I'm playing devil's advocate, those same OAP's could be the ones with the Nazi or IRA flags, posing no further genuine risk, but still promoting something illegal. Whether or not you or I agree with their views isn't the point either, as again most of those harmless OAP's have still attended after previous arrests, knowing they are breaking the law, knowing they will be arrested, knowing the police can do nothing about it and knowing they are wasting those valuable police resources in not only arresting them, but locking them up and processing them. At the very minimum their actions are selfish.

 

[oscillatewildly]

And just to underline how fucked the Tories are:

Christ almighty they are absolutely cooked.

They look like the support act for Mumford & Sons.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

The man is an absolute head banging lunatic.
I'd be tempted to say he's in good company if it wasn't for the fact the rest are rank amateurs by comparison.

What has he said that makes him a lunatic out of curiosity