Aled Williams & John Dempster (1 Viewer)

[Dougin]

Marosi, Moore, Collins and Wilson all regressed.
That's beyond debate. The question is why?
It might be nothing to do with the coaching but to not question the person whose job title is goalkeeping coach would be peculiar to say the least.

I would say apart from Wilson they were all very poor goalkeepers. What are any of them doing now. How do you know they regressed, they all came from lower league teams and we’re not up to championship level.

 

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[TomRad85]

We were operating on a limited budget for years and the GK position wasn’t one we deemed worth spending a lot of money on.

The summer of the Gyok/Hamer sales, spending so much across the team but just 500k or whatever it was for Brad Collins was a slightly odd call.

 

[Sick Boy]

I would say apart from Wilson they were all very poor goalkeepers. What are any of them doing now. How do you know they regressed, they all came from lower league teams and we’re not up to championship level.

Unlike Wilson, Marosi actually plays regular first team football and Moore is backup for a PL club.

 

[TomRad85]

I would say apart from Wilson they were all very poor goalkeepers. What are any of them doing now. How do you know they regressed, they all came from lower league teams and we’re not up to championship level.

Sorry Marosi was our title winning keeper while Wilson sat on the bench. He'd have probably been a serviceable keeper at this level if things had been different. The most disrespected member of our title winners by far. Better than Wilson and remembered fondly by me.

 

[clint van damme]

How do you know they regressed

By watching them every week.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The summer of the Gyok/Hamer sales, spending so much across the team but just 500k or whatever it was for Brad Collins was a slightly odd call.

The whole concept of signing Barnsley’s defence overall was a slightly odd call given that it was a L1 playoff defence.

 

[TomRad85]

The whole concept of signing Barnsley’s defence overall was a slightly odd call given that it was a L1 playoff defence.

Ironically I think Andersen was our first choice but we've done well out of Thomas and Kitching really. Worked out ok.

 

[Hobo]

Marosi, Moore, Collins and Wilson all regressed.
That's beyond debate. The question is why?
It might be nothing to do with the coaching but to not question the person whose job title is goalkeeping coach would be peculiar to say the least.

Perhaps because they are no more than League One level keepers or just suited to a back up role; rather than exposure week in week out over the course of a season, where their weaknesses eventually come to the surface and get exposed.

 

[clint van damme]

Perhaps because they are no more than League One level keepers or just suited to a back up role; rather than exposure week in week out over the course of a season, where their weaknesses eventually come to the surface and get exposed.

while I could see that being the case in some instances Moore and Wilson were decent over a fairly long spell.
I know Moore had some personal issues and I think Wilson was much better in his golden gloves season than people give him credit for

 

[fernandopartridge]

The whole concept of signing Barnsley’s defence overall was a slightly odd call given that it was a L1 playoff defence.

The two centre backs were signed because of their individual capability, not because they played for a league 1 play off team.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The two centre backs were signed because of their individual capability, not because they played for a league 1 play off team.

The plan was to sign Barnsley’s back 3 plus Collins wasn’t it? So it was the unit we were in for as much as the individuals.

 

[Hobo]

while I could see that being the case in some instances Moore and Wilson were decent over a fairly long spell.
I know Moore had some personal issues and I think Wilson was much better in his golden gloves season than people give him credit for

I think Moore was definitely off field personal issues. I have always thought Wilson was over criticised, however he does have a mistake in him. I never saw Collins as an upgrade, far from it. I think a lot of people convinced themselves he would be then wouldn't back track on it, when he lost form.

Even really top goalkeepers can have a collapse in confidence and form. It's the nature of the position. Outfield players can have a mare but it won't necessarily cost the team goals and the match. Goalkeepers mistakes tend to result in goals conceded.

When you look at how our backroom staff has changed, if Williams was half as bad as people are making out I don't think he would still be here.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The plan was to sign Barnsley’s back 3 plus Collins wasn’t it? So it was the unit we were in for as much as the individuals.

That's speculation and most likely not true given that

1. Barnsley played with 3 at the back and the other player they had went to Luton
2. Thomas was signed once Burnley priced us out of Luke McNally

 

[SBT]

Well, Collins had a Chelsea connection along with Dasilva and Palmer. You’d still expect a goalkeeping coach to tell him to parry the ball away from goal.

“I’d usually catch these….but Aled is telling me to palm it straight to the closest opposition player instead….better do what he says”

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's speculation and most likely not true given that

1. Barnsley played with 3 at the back and the other player they had went to Luton
2. Thomas was signed once Burnley priced us out of Luke McNally

Happy to be corrected, thought Saddle said otherwise at the time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

“I’d usually catch these….but Aled is telling me to palm it straight to the closest opposition player instead….better do what he says”

He did it throughout his two seasons here. Not something worth working on?

 

[SBT]

He did it throughout his two seasons here. Not something worth working on?

Maybe Collins didn’t respond well to training because he…..wasn’t very good?

Either that or Aled was staying committed to the principles of Operation Don’t Save Anything because he’d misread a UEFA training textbook.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Maybe Collins didn’t respond well to training because he…..wasn’t very good?

Either that or Aled was staying committed to the principles of Operation Don’t Save Anything because he’d misread a UEFA training textbook.

 

[clint van damme]

I think Moore was definitely off field personal issues. I have always thought Wilson was over criticised, however he does have a mistake in him. I never saw Collins as an upgrade, far from it. I think a lot of people convinced themselves he would be then wouldn't back track on it, when he lost form.

Even really top goalkeepers can have a collapse in confidence and form. It's the nature of the position. Outfield players can have a mare but it won't necessarily cost the team goals and the match. Goalkeepers mistakes tend to result in goals conceded.

When you look at how our backroom staff has changed, if Williams was half as bad as people are making out I don't think he would still be here.

I agree about him still being here, I'm sure Lampard would have replaced him if he wasn't satisfied.

 

[The Philosopher]

Maybe an outdated opinion:

Other than saying that “he was a talented goalkeeper in his day” on his own LinkedIn profile, I can’t find who Aled Williams actually played for.

Coaching badges are one thing, but is that enough without top level actual experience?

Players often enjoy / benefit from having coaches or managers who can say “been there, done it, understand your mindset” etc.

Lampard is revered because he can say that. Plus he’s been coached by the best and players know that. I’m sure that when he speaks, not many are going to say “what does he know?”

MR had Man U, Ferguson, playing abroad etc to cite.

WRT goalkeeper coaches, it’d be hard to say that Oggy hadn’t “been there”, he could point to his Liverpool days for a start.

WRT Williams, he might have all the coupons but will any of the keepers he’s tried to develop actually revere / respect him enough?

As I said, might be an outdated opinion but there it is.

 

[Skybluedownunder]

I find it odd that Aled Williams gets so much stick. If a GK loses form, it’s Williams’ fault but if any outfield player has a loss of form it’s never a specific coach’s fault. Why?

Dovin progressed nicely last season, no praise for Williams. Collins comes in, plays poorly and the usual suspects call for his head.

I don’t know how good or bad of a coach he is but Lampard would have scope to replace staff if they weren’t good enough you’d think.

I believe he also covers set piece which we are also shit at defending


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[procdoc]

Maybe an outdated opinion:

Other than saying that “he was a talented goalkeeper in his day” on his own LinkedIn profile, I can’t find who Aled Williams actually played for.

Coaching badges are one thing, but is that enough without top level actual experience?

Players often enjoy / benefit from having coaches or managers who can say “been there, done it, understand your mindset” etc.

Lampard is revered because he can say that. Plus he’s been coached by the best and players know that. I’m sure that when he speaks, not many are going to say “what does he know?”

MR had Man U, Ferguson, playing abroad etc to cite.

WRT goalkeeper coaches, it’d be hard to say that Oggy hadn’t “been there”, he could point to his Liverpool days for a start.

WRT Williams, he might have all the coupons but will any of the keepers he’s tried to develop actually revere / respect him enough?

As I said, might be an outdated opinion but there it is.

Rushworth literally credited Williams on Saturday after the match for the work he’s done with him in training.

If he wasn’t any good Lampard would have replaced him

 

[clint van damme]

I believe he also covers set piece which we are also shit at defending


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Does he do set piece attack and defence?
I know he got some praise, quite recently when we scored from one but didn't know if he also works on them from the defensive side.

 

[Skybluedownunder]

Does he do set piece attack and defence?
I know he got some praise, quite recently when we scored from one but didn't know if he also works on them from the defensive side.

Unsure mate, I thought he covered Goalkeepers, Defence & Set pieces but I could be wrong.
If he was covering that side of the pitch I would assume it would be defending set pieces more than scoring them.
I guess though you set up both your attacking and defensive teams doing a training drill so one attacks the other sort of thing


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[procdoc]

It’s far more nuanced than blaming set piece goals on the coaches. A lot of them are due to a real time lack of concentration and a lack of communication. Also irks me how many times defenders in general fluff a clearance these days

 

[SBT]

Unsure mate, I thought he covered Goalkeepers, Defence & Set pieces but I could be wrong.

The reality is that no-one really knows

 

[rob9872]

Nothing wrong with our coaches and bar the odd error, nothing much wrong with lots of players too and I'd also add scouts into that list. When things are going well there is no mention of them, any blip and we're all guilty of looking for somewhere to blame from the players, to the coaching, recruitment and even at times the owner. It's reactionary nonsense most of the time, but I'll bet there isn't a poster on here who isn't guilty of it. Sometimes I think we're looking for a reason where there isn't one and should just hold our hands up and say "yeah, it was crap today".

 

[Hobo]

I agree about him still being here, I'm sure Lampard would have replaced him if he wasn't satisfied.

I would include Robins and King in that as well.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It’s far more nuanced than blaming set piece goals on the coaches. A lot of them are due to a real time lack of concentration and a lack of communication. Also irks me how many times defenders in general fluff a clearance these days

I think it's often the case that trying to find a pass is so indoctrinated into players now that just wellying it away even in the last minute of a match isn't seen as an option

 

[Captain Dart]

Maybe an outdated opinion:

Other than saying that “he was a talented goalkeeper in his day” on his own LinkedIn profile, I can’t find who Aled Williams actually played for.

Coaching badges are one thing, but is that enough without top level actual experience?

Players often enjoy / benefit from having coaches or managers who can say “been there, done it, understand your mindset” etc.

Lampard is revered because he can say that. Plus he’s been coached by the best and players know that. I’m sure that when he speaks, not many are going to say “what does he know?”

MR had Man U, Ferguson, playing abroad etc to cite.

WRT goalkeeper coaches, it’d be hard to say that Oggy hadn’t “been there”, he could point to his Liverpool days for a start.

WRT Williams, he might have all the coupons but will any of the keepers he’s tried to develop actually revere / respect him enough?

As I said, might be an outdated opinion but there it is.

What about Arsene Wenger and the Jose Murhinio, their playing days were mediocre to say the least.
Eventually their management abilities overcame any doubts the players might have had about them.

 

[Captain Dart]

Isn't it interesting that both Dovin & Rushworth had a few poor games in the beginning but before too long they hit form.

Coincidence or the Williams effect, what do you think?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s far more nuanced than blaming set piece goals on the coaches. A lot of them are due to a real time lack of concentration and a lack of communication. Also irks me how many times defenders in general fluff a clearance these days

It’s what mindlessly copying everything Pep does with world class players has done to football.

 

[SBAndy]

It’s what mindlessly copying everything Pep does with world class players has done to football.

There’s clearly a bank of data suggesting that having everyone back for corners reduces the chance of conceding, but that almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as all teams do it so your data pool for other approaches shrinks.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s clearly a bank of data suggesting that having everyone back for corners reduces the chance of conceding, but that almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as all teams do it so your data pool for other approaches shrinks.

I’ve tried hard finding that data but with not much success. The sheer number of goals I’m seeing at corners now though, often scored in packed 6 yard boxes, tells me it’s a bad idea for all but a handful of teams with players who can keep very specific instructions for zonal marking in their head and carry it out.

Check the West Ham game last week, neither team had a clue what they were doing.

 

[SBAndy]

I’ve tried hard finding that data but with not much success. The sheer number of goals I’m seeing at corners now though, often scored in packed 6 yard boxes, tells me it’s a bad idea for all but a handful of teams with players who can keep very specific instructions for zonal marking in their head and carry it out.

Check the West Ham game last week, neither team had a clue what they were doing.

It’s not entirely related but here’s a quote I found on why teams don’t have players on posts any more, which kind of covers the same aspect.

“Statistics show that with scoring from a corner, 2.1 per cent of all opportunities result in a goal but when the defending team puts players on the post that goes up to 2.7 per cent, which is pretty significant in the big picture,” says former professional goalkeeper and analyst for The Athletic Matt Pyzdrowski. “That makes sense, you’re taking away players that should be marking other players in the box. Everything comes down to superior numbers with the offence trying to get an advantage and the defence trying to counter that.”