Charlie Kirk Shot (9 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Worse obviously, i would think that goes without saying.

Of course, so buying someone a murder weapon as a gift and going ‘now son, only kill animals with this, promise?’ seems a bit naive.

 

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[mmttww]

Bloke is usually pretty bang on. Will give that a watch later. People screaming at each other virtually and in person is so counter productive. All about dishing out Ls and gotchas to share on the web.

 

[chiefdave]

You will never take guns from the hands of the American public.

There's a 3 parter from John Oliver back when he was on the Daily Show that's worth a watch on YouTube. Discusses how Australia held pretty much the same view but gun regulations were still changed to stop mass shootings.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

What is the solution to this trans epidemic. It is concerning.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There's a 3 parter from John Oliver back when he was on the Daily Show that's worth a watch on YouTube. Discusses how Australia held pretty much the same view but gun regulations were still changed to stop mass shootings.

Think they did a gun amnesty

 

[TomRad85]

Of course, so buying someone a murder weapon as a gift and going ‘now son, only kill animals with this, promise?’ seems a bit naive.

Why? Most Americans own guns and most parents won't assume their offspring are potential murderers. Blame American society if you want but its hardly on the father is it, its just what Americans do.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Why? Most Americans own guns and most parents won't assume their offspring are potential murderers. Blame American society if you want but its hardly on the father is it, its just what Americans do.

I'm sure the father feels the same at the moment.

He will be completely beside himself and second guessing the decision he made to buy it for him

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why? Most Americans own guns and most parents won't assume their offspring are potential murderers. Blame American society if you want but its hardly on the father is it, its just what Americans do.

Guns are for killing people. Don’t act shocked when they’re used for that purpose

 

[TomRad85]

I'm sure the father feels the same at the moment.

He will be completely beside himself and second guessing the decision he made to buy it for him

Feeling guilt isn't the same as blame. I'd feel guilt if my son did any such thing too as you'd wonder what you could have done differently.

 

[TomRad85]

Guns are for killing people. Don’t act shocked when they’re used for that purpose

I think its a strange thing to say to be honest. The murderer is 22 years old, an adult. Most Americans own guns and despite what we think of them, most of them do so without murdering people.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The polls show enormous support for universal background checks amongst other things. Not sure which polls you’re looking at?

I read an article recently about it. Probably need to look more into it to be fair as I don't actually know much about the test pool of number of people that were assessed / questions asked etc.

 

[Sick Boy]

I think its a strange thing to say to be honest. The murderer is 22 years old, an adult. Most Americans own guns and despite what we think of them, most of them do so without murdering people.

Most of them also want stricter gun control. I also think slightly more don't own a gun than those that do.

 

[Otis]

Most of them also want stricter gun control. I also think slightly more don't own a gun than those that do.

I did wonder what the split was. Be interested to know

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It looks like the narrative has gone from "There's nothing to say he lived with his trans partner or had leftist views" now that has come out he had to "It's his dad's fault for giving him the gun".

I do find it mental though that in any country in the world you can pack an assault rifle for your day out. Just nipping to Tesco with a huge fuck off rifle on my back.

Gosh I’m feeling attacked this morning and that’s on me
It’s not a narrative it’s trying to make sense of stuff
I’ll just get on with work I think ffs

 

[Sick Boy]

I did wonder what the split was. Be interested to know

Key facts about Americans and guns

About six-in-ten U.S. adults (58%) favor stricter gun laws. Another 26% say that U.S. gun laws are about right, while 15% favor less strict gun laws.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What is the solution to this trans epidemic. It is concerning.

Is that genuine? It’s tiny isn’t it?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Is that genuine? It’s tiny isn’t it?

I'm not sure. Some pepole have big ones some have tiny.

 

[TomRad85]

Most of them also want stricter gun control. I also think slightly more don't own a gun than those that do.

But under the current law you have a 22 year old man who legally owned a firearm. Shooting someone in the neck in public was the very illegal bit.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think it’s a strange thing to say to be honest. The murderer is 22 years old, an adult. Most Americans own guns and despite what we think of them, most of them do so without murdering people.

Compare gun death rates with countries that don’t let their citizens own weapons stashes then get back to me.

 

[TomRad85]

Compare gun death rates with countries that don’t let their citizens own weapons stashes then get back to me.

I don't know what your point is. I said i wouldn't want us to be like the States? Not sure why you can't accept its a different country with different laws and a different culture though.

 

[duffer]

Not really, they were holding a placard for a terrorist group and the police were following the law. The people holding them knew what would happen but they decided to break the law.

If you think Reform are a protest movement I think your not reading the room. They are certainly a political party and look like they will assemble the people needed as they go along. Can’t see them being stopped to be honest.

Your argument was basically, there's a problem on the left with violence, look at the 890 arrests relating to Palestinian Action.

Now either you didn't know 857 of those arrests were quite obviously of non-violent protesters, or you were making stuff up. Which was it?

On Reform, other than flags and immigration, which one of their policies can you quote without reaching for Google?

In the same way that Labour got in on the back of "anyone but the Tories", Reform might get in on "anyone but Labour", but it's nothing to do with people favouring right wing policies - other than immigration and culture wars it seems that most people don't know what their actual policies are.

 

[duffer]

Why? It's a country where you can legally own firearms so many do, its within the law. His dad i'm sure taught him how to shoot targets or animals, why would he be to blame for him shooting a person?

Would it be something to do with the fact that an adult was reckless enough to allow a 14-year-old boy access to a high powered assault rifle without supervision? Maybe even in the U.S. that's not considered particularly wise, or indeed, legal.

 

[TomRad85]

Would it be something to do with the fact that an adult was reckless enough to allow a 14-year-old boy access to a high powered assault rifle without supervision? Maybe even in the U.S. that's not considered particularly wise, or indeed, legal.

Are you ok? I was clearly referring to the Kirk shooter and questioned why Pete would even compare the 2 cases.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't know what your point is. I said i wouldn't want us to be like the States? Not sure why you can't accept its a different country with different laws and a different culture though.

Well it started off with 'why would he feel guilty, he got the gun legally'. Just because something is legal doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[TomRad85]

Well it started off with 'why would he feel guilty, he got the gun legally'. Just because something is legal doesn't make it a good idea.

Blame my friend, not an internal feeling of guilt which would be normal for any parent. Why are we trying to absolve an adult male of blame for his own actions?

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Why? Most Americans own guns and most parents won't assume their offspring are potential murderers. Blame American society if you want but its hardly on the father is it, its just what Americans do.

Yeah it's not 'on the father'. Tyler Robinson is a fully grown adult.

But this does highlight the lack of accountability from certain sections of American society. Moving away from the Kirk shooting and focusing on school shootings. The vast majority of families never think that their child could ever be capable of such evil until they get a knock on the door from the county sheriff, state police, FBI or whoever.

The average age of a school shooter is 16, with the overwhelming majority being male, and research indicates (in regards to have the've actually procured the guns) that a significant proportion will have been stolen from family/friends.

The amount of access parents seemingly give to their children, often at a really early age, clearly contributes to the problem. Equally, as does where they leave guns in the house.

I'd have to double check this when i get time but I'm fairly sure only around half of US states have some form of child access laws with regards to guns in the home.

Yet the FBi did a report probably around 7/8 years ago now highlighting that in multiple cases, minors who carried out school shootings obtained the weapon through unsecured or negligently stored guns.

Mad really how this isn't being looked at.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah it's not 'on the father'. Tyler Robinson is a fully grown adult.

But this does highlight the lack of accountability from certain sections of American society. Moving away from the Kirk shooting and focusing on school shootings. The vast majority of families never think that their child could ever be capable of such evil until they get a knock on the door from the county sheriff, state police, FBI or whoever.

The average age of a school shooter is 16, with the overwhelming majority being male, and research indicates (in regards to have the've actually procured the guns) that a significant proportion will have been stolen from family/friends.

The amount of access parents seemingly give to their children, often at a really early age, clearly contributes to the problem. Equally, as does where they leave guns in the house.

I'd have to double check this when i get time but I'm fairly sure only around half of US states have some form of child access laws with regards to guns in the home.

Yet the FBi did a report probably around 7/8 years ago now highlighting that in multiple cases, minors who carried out school shootings obtained the weapon through unsecured or negligently stored guns.

Mad really how this isn't being looked at.

The school shooting that's being overlooked by Kirk's killing was in the same county as the famous Columbine shooting. Seems he was being encouraged to be a 'hero' on forums devoted to school shootings. People looking for fame and notoriety even if it means being a mass murderer.

 

[mmttww]

Mad really how this isn't being looked at.

as long as you have folks talking about Amendment no. II as a 'God given right' then it's pissing in the wind to even try and achieve some meaningful reform.

 

[Otis]

as long as you have folks talking about Amendment no. II as a 'God given right' then it's pissing in the wind to even try and achieve some meaningful reform.

A God given right to kill people from a God who says thou shalt not kill.

 

[PVA]

as long as you have folks talking about Amendment no. II as a 'God given right' then it's pissing in the wind to even try and achieve some meaningful reform.

Let's not forget that Kirk himself said it's 'worth it' for people to get killed so others can carry guns.

Just an insane mindset.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

The school shooting that's being overlooked by Kirk's killing was in the same county as the famous Columbine shooting. Seems he was being encouraged to be a 'hero' on forums devoted to school shootings. People looking for fame and notoriety even if it means being a mass murderer.

It's ironic. But Adolescence, the series which I'm sure most if not all of us have either seen or heard about, highlights the real-world issue of young people becoming indoctrinated by weird online culture and online forums such as on Discord, Reddit.

Kirk claimed that the aforementioned didn't exist and it doesn't happen.

Why number of US mass shootings has risen sharply

This is a couple of years out of date but mass shootings are on the rise. How did Kirk honestly claim that toxic masculinity - refer to my point again about how the sex ratio of school shooters - not be attributed to this rise, when lets be honest it's clearly heavily fuelled by social media and online forums.

What other direct link is there?

 

[rob9872]

I think the issue is that it's so far down the road now of everyone having them. It needs to be all or none (reminds me of the guy in Indiana Jones pulling a sword out and Indi shooting him).

We've got similar happening here, particularly in London and we don't even have a law that says you can carry a knife, but all the kids do and the do because everyone else has them. Until that mindset stops, it will continue that we have knife deaths on our streets and kids will go on carrying them. The simple thing is that if you don't carry, you can't have that moments lapse and stab someone then regret it. Guns of course have that same problem and worse consequences.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Likely true. Doesn't help that this is the second high-profile trans-related act of gun violence within the space of around 2-3 weeks - a male transitioning to female killed two children outside a church at a Catholic school late last month.

The rhetoric I'm seeing from the right is pretty alarming since reports regarding motive have been confirmed though. It's borderline calling for a crusade / Kingdom of Heaven type stuff.

Although if you want to talk about deflection there's so much talk about left vs right currently when the bigger issue at play is how there's actually very little being said publicly about the need to tighten gun control.

Not ‘likely true’, it is true.

Some of the reactions on both sides is pretty bad. The amount of people ‘outed’ for celebrating a death, particularly the college kid chanting ‘we got Charlie in the neck’ over a megaphone is disgusting.

Most people on the right have called for calm, quoting Kirk’s maxim of: ‘when people stop talking, bad things happen’. That’s the majority I’ve seen.

There people on the Right such as Fuentes and Candace Owens who are bad actors. The former is trying to win over and radicalise Kirk’s audience and Owens has gone down this ugly rabbit hole ‘it’s Israel’s fault’. Those people, I’m not worried about because they’re fringe actors and most reasonable people see through their BS. What is concerning is people like Tim Pool and Matt Walsh saying the following





^ this one is particularly concerning - anyone who frames ‘right v left’ as ‘good v evil’ is peddling a false dichotomy. There a good and people across the political spectrum and ‘uniting’ with everyone on the ‘right’ is a terrible idea (and vice versa), for example.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Not ‘likely true’, it is true.

Some of the reactions on both sides is pretty bad. The amount of people ‘outed’ for celebrating a death, particularly the college kid chanting ‘we got Charlie in the neck’ over a megaphone is disgusting.

Most people on the right have called for calm, quoting Kirk’s maxim of: ‘when people stop talking, bad things happen’. That’s the majority I’ve seen.

There people on the Right such as Fuentes and Candace Owens who are bad actors. The former is trying to win over and radicalise Kirk’s audience and Owens has gone down this ugly rabbit hole ‘it’s Israel’s fault’. Those people, I’m not worried about because they’re fringe actors and most reasonable people see through their BS. What is concerning is people like Tim Pool and Matt Walsh saying the following





^ this one is particularly concerning - anyone who frames ‘right v left’ as ‘good v evil’ is peddling a false dichotomy. There a good and people across the political spectrum and ‘uniting’ with everyone on the ‘right’ is a terrible idea (and vice versa), for example.

Its Top vs Bottom not Left vs Right

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not ‘likely true’, it is true.

Some of the reactions on both sides is pretty bad. The amount of people ‘outed’ for celebrating a death, particularly the college kid chanting ‘we got Charlie in the neck’ over a megaphone is disgusting.

Most people on the right have called for calm, quoting Kirk’s maxim of: ‘when people stop talking, bad things happen’. That’s the majority I’ve seen.

There people on the Right such as Fuentes and Candace Owens who are bad actors. The former is trying to win over and radicalise Kirk’s audience and Owens has gone down this ugly rabbit hole ‘it’s Israel’s fault’. Those people, I’m not worried about because they’re fringe actors and most reasonable people see through their BS. What is concerning is people like Tim Pool and Matt Walsh saying the following





^ this one is particularly concerning - anyone who frames ‘right v left’ as ‘good v evil’ is peddling a false dichotomy. There a good and people across the political spectrum and ‘uniting’ with everyone on the ‘right’ is a terrible idea (and vice versa), for example.

‘Most people on the right have called for calm’ because one of their own has been killed. I never, ever see it from them when it’s one of their own conducting the violence.

Let’s be honest, they’re guilty of it far more often.