Do you want to discuss boring politics? (26 Viewers)

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Nick

Nick

Administrator
Grendel said:
I’ll give £200 to watch that
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Just weird really, especially as there were buses going from places in Bedworth and there are vastly more people from around him who will be going to them as opposed to Palestine ones.

Gives it the "better than everybody" act but will be packing his kids off to a school where shit loads of the parents will have been to London at the weekend. 😂
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
If the march was just about immigration levels why were they singing about Allah, singing about Gaza and trying to fight anti-racist protestors? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
I mean... Robinson is a racist, Hopkins is a racist, Musk throws Nazi salutes, and they organised or spoke at the event. It's not exactly a hot take to say that travelling to this thing and supporting these people means you hold racist positions and are probably a lil' bit racist.
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I'm not sure that every single person there can be labelled a racist, I think that's a huge stretch. But I am starting to wonder if we need to educate people on what racism is.

I remember a few years back there was an ad campaign aimed at young guys going on a night out to not sexually harass / assault someone. I thought it was one of the most bizarre thing I'd ever seen, couldn't believe this was something people didn't know. But it turned out we had a generation of people who needed educating in what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't.

Do we need similar for racism? This week we've seen people defending Charlie Kirks views saying 'he's not racist he just said...' followed by textbook racism. Could it be that there's a significant number of people who genuinely don't realise they hold views that would be classed as racist? Would certainly explain why we see people getting so worked up about being labelled racist when they've said or posted something many people would class as racist. Would they even care if the penny dropped?
 
TomRad85

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
There’s clearly a lot of US money behind them, probably from very conservative religious organisations. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them gain ground at this rate.


I’m pretty sure Tom’s wife is Turkish. I highly doubt it’s something he supports.
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I said I could understand why people are pissed off. I wouldn't go on the chance I ended up stood next to an actual racist which would be a weird thing to support. I imagine there are plenty on unsavory characters at these Palestine marches too but each to their own.

I couldn't really give a fuck what he calls me, being bothered about being labeled online is so 5 years ago. Normal British conservatives need to stop being shy in the face of this shit. There's a reason threads like this on here are complete echo chambers.
I thought more of him sadly but presumably he's had a rough night.
 
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C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I hope he doesn’t. But it’s what people in the party he advocates for do support. I don’t want the US ICE system here. And nothing is ever enough. We left the EU. Wasn’t enough. We’ve halved immigration. Not enough. Election results aren’t respected and people are talking about violent uprising. Courts are maligned. Now we’ve got climate change and vaccine conspiracies. It’s enough and people who don’t support that shit need to say so.
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Theres some important info left off this though

We left the EU. - many wanted it to mean we’d show a semblance of control over immigration yet the doors were open even wider.

We’ve halved immigration - yes but from about 900k and also 700k the year before. With 450k last year that’s 2m in three years. Crazy numbers. This is on the Tories. Boat’s still increasing though which is the visible bit and causing the unrest. I still don’t think we have a proper plan or control over immigration but hopefully there’s some signs of this happening

Election results aren’t respected and people are talking about violent uprising - agree with this point. We’re a year into a new government, yet you’ve got people on the left and right wanting a change in leadership and to bring the government down. Mental in a democracy
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
I'm not sure that every single person there can be labelled a racist, I think that's a huge stretch. But I am starting to wonder if we need to educate people on what racism is.

I remember a few years back there was an ad campaign aimed at young guys going on a night out to not sexually harass / assault someone. I thought it was one of the most bizarre thing I'd ever seen, couldn't believe this was something people didn't know. But it turned out we had a generation of people who needed educating in what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't.

Do we need similar for racism? This week we've seen people defending Charlie Kirks views saying 'he's not racist he just said...' followed by textbook racism. Could it be that there's a significant number of people who genuinely don't realise they hold views that would be classed as racist? Would certainly explain why we see people getting so worked up about being labelled racist when they've said or posted something many people would class as racist. Would they even care if the penny dropped?
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Not in Coventry surely
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
CCFCSteve said:
Theres some important info left off this though

We left the EU. - many wanted it to mean we’d show a semblance of control over immigration yet the doors were open even wider.

We’ve halved immigration - yes but from about 900k and also 700k the year before. With 450k last year that’s 2m in three years. Crazy numbers. This is on the Tories. Boat’s still increasing though which is the visible bit and causing the unrest. I still don’t think we have a proper plan or control over immigration but hopefully there’s some signs of this happening

Election results aren’t respected and people are talking about violent uprising - agree with this point. We’re a year into a new government, yet you’ve got people on the left and right wanting a change in leadership and to bring the government down. Mental in a democracy
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And you’ve got Musk openly calling for violence on British streets to bring down the government, while forcing propaganda to help achieve it on people.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
And you’ve got Musk openly calling for violence on British streets to bring down the government, while forcing propaganda to help achieve it on people.
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Yeah, said before he should stay out of politics, especially foreign politics he knows little about. He’s probably only seen Robinsons grooming gangs video and thinks he’s a force for the good, as we know, he isn’t. Musks got an axe to grind about freedom of speech though and some of it is justifiable…unfortunately saying shit like yesterday is exactly why some try to close FoS down 🤷‍♂️
 
N

Northants Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
So most agree that the legitimate concerns of millions seem to have been hijacked yesterday by a minority of bigots like Musk, Hopkins, TR etc.

The actual BUF British Union of Fascists with their little lightning bolt flags were proudly on display yesterday

Im concerned about immigration but why would I go on a march where those people are front and centre?
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Boat’s still increasing though which is the visible bit and causing the unrest.
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Think this illustrates a huge problem with even starting to have a serious debate on the subject. Whenever there are surveys on this they consistently show that peoples perception of the numbers is way out. You could stop every single boat tomorrow and it wouldn't even scratch the surface of the immigration 'problem'.

Then you hit the problem that we've seen on here in the past, when you show the correct numbers they're just dismissed as 'fake news'. Immigration is coming down, action is being taken on hotel use (which is a problem entirely manufactured by the last government stopping processing new asylum seeker applications), visa restrictions are being tightened.

The one thing it seems hard to get any clarity on is what people actually want. You will get a handful who will say zero immigration or even remove immigrants already here but the economy couldn't cope with that. Just saying lower the number doesn't really help when there's many different types of migration.
 
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S

SBT

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Wasn't specific to anywhere, more a general thought. There seems to be a decent number of people in the country who take huge offence to being labelled a racist while repeating things that would meet most definitions of racism.

Just a thought.
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I think there’s probably a surprisingly large portion of the public across the political spectrum who hold racist views in some specific contexts, but who would never dream of letting it inform their day-to-day actions and would be mortally offended if they were called a racist like they’re running around calling people the n-word or the p-word etc.

Which is why I think it’s largely unhelpful to brand hundreds of thousands of people as racist, when I’d prefer to reserve it for the ringleaders and the real headcases.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
I think there’s probably a surprisingly large portion of the public across the political spectrum who hold racist views in some specific contexts, but who would never dream of letting it inform their day-to-day actions and would be mortally offended if they were called a racist like they’re running around calling people the n-word or the p-word etc.

Which is why I think it’s largely unhelpful to brand hundreds of thousands of people as racist, when I’d prefer to reserve it for the ringleaders and the real headcases.
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I get what you're saying but is that counter productive?

Kind of feels like saying being a bit racist is fine as long as you mainly keep it to yourself and just put a tick in the box for Reform and hang a flag off the nearest lamppost, not to say that all reform voters and / or flag flyers are racist just to be clear.

Isn't racism, in all forms, something people should find abhorrent and be 100% against? If you allow 'acceptable' racism aren't you just creating the perfect environment for the likes of Robinson?
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Think this illustrates a huge problem with even starting to have a serious debate on the subject. Whenever there are surveys on this they consistently show that peoples perception of the numbers is way out. You could stop every single boat tomorrow and it wouldn't even scratch the surface of the immigration 'problem'.

Then you hit the problem that we've seen on here in the past, when you show the correct numbers they're just dismissed as 'fake news'. Immigration is coming down, action is being taken on hotel use (which is a problem entirely manufactured by the last government stopping processing new asylum seeker applications), visa restrictions are being tightened.

The one thing it seems hard to get any clarity on is what people actually want. You will get a handful who will say zero immigration or even remove immigrants already here but the economy couldn't cope with that. Just saying lower the number doesn't really help when there's many different types of migration.
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Yeah, unfortunately most don’t even understand or try to understand the actual numbers involved. I think that’s the same on both sides of the debate though.

What has been needed and hasn’t ever been delivered, is some kind of industrial/ employment plan* as to what’s needed short term and longer term. Tying in with unis, public sector and large private employers. This then also tied back into welfare state as we can’t have such a large proportion of the working population not working….theres no point importing labour when there could be the labour available here with the right training/support

Once that’s done an adult conversation been the political parties and the public about all the trade offs. I just can’t see this happening though


*I think the government are preparing one. I personally think one should’ve been done prior to Brexit and formed part of the debate.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
One issue with the debate is that people take "immigration" as one big package.

If you mention particular parts being an issue, the response you get is "yeah but doctors and NHS" when it's pretty obvious you aren't on about that.

"Crime rates for People from Somalia entering the country illegally"
"So you're saying my Danish friend who works as a scientist is a criminal?"
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Interesting comments from Sir Trevor Phillips:



- ‘mostly normal people you’d see in country pubs or HT at a football match’
- hooliganism on the fringes
- Tommy Robinson more capable of pulling in a crowd the size of Blackpool/Cambridge than Starmer or Badenoch
- People are sending a message to Westminster

The rehabilitation of Tommy Robinson’s image is entirely the Labour/Tory establishments fault.
 
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