12 year old raped in nuneaton (4 Viewers)

[Nick]

Sorry to hear about your daughters.
In this case, a significant sentence can only mean that they are in prison until the day they die. Preferably, kept in isolation with minimal contact with anyone else.

If that's the case if found guilty and in prison on their own until death. Why not just kill them now? Save a fortune.

 

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[Grendel]

As

you really think what they’ve allegedly done is as bad as someone murdering someone in cold blood or multiple people?
It’s fuckin awful but I’d prefer to have my 12 year old daughter back with me and help them through it rather than someone thinking if I’m gonna be in prison for life I might as well keep them for a few weeks and murder them more chance of getting away with it

it’s awful stuff but there’s degrees of criminality for good reason and it’s worth finding out more than responding emotionally

Murderers statistically are less likely to offend - principally as most are crimes of passion and multiple murderers don't come out.

People who do this acts are ironically far more likely to re-offend and remain a lifelong danger

Its very unlikely they will be deported

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Murderers statistically are less likely to offend - principally as most are crimes of passion and multiple murderers don't come out.

People who do this acts are ironically far more likely to re-offend and remain a lifelong danger

Its very unlikely they will be deported

Love it when you just assert a fact and share no evidence whatsoever

 

[Grendel]

Love it when you just assert a fact and share no evidence whatsoever

The reoffending rate of released murderes committing another murder is 5.3%

 

[shmmeee]

My experience would say children are remarkable and can make new lives out of the trauma. Hard though

Adversity can go either way, not a coin id flip for any kid I cared about though. The people I know who were raped were still dealing with it decades later. It’s a truly horrific crime.

 

[shmmeee]

That's one of the problems though Pete, before we deport them, they come up with all kinds of things, like, I'm now gay and would get threatened or killed in my own country, or my child needs me here and wouldn't get on back home
We're too soft throughout the whole process

Generally as a moral principle we’ve taken the view that it’s better to let the odd person through than send people to their certain death.

The numbers who claim sexuality as a reason are around the numbers of people who aren’t heterosexual in any population so there’s not huge evidence of that.

I think you guys have to decide where your line is. Any system is gamble ultimately so if your bar is “never reading about a case I disagree with” then you’re basically saying no asylum process and we support the Taliban, Iranians, Chinese etc in getting these people back to torture them.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Adversity can go either way, not a coin id flip for any kid I cared about though. The people I know who were raped were still dealing with it decades later. It’s a truly horrific crime.

Yep sorry I was meaning instead of having to bury my child

 

[shmmeee]

Yep sorry I was meaning instead of having to bury my child

100% and I’ve seen some real diamonds come from horrible situations, I’ve also seen lives go entirely off track. Futures aren’t written and having a loving and supportive family around is huge.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Both of my daughters have been victims so we all live in the world rob
One got to trial and she had to give evidence and the man was found not guilty
The other one the person served time. Neither were people who’d come on a small boat
That aside I think it’s a bad idea for the victims to decide on the punishment, the impact should absolutely be taken into account as it is
However where are you drawing the line? What’s the punishment for murder if this crime is the death sentence?
Firstly this is about guilt first and foremost and then it’s about sentencing and that’s before thinking about what use they may be to society after they’ve been punished
What they’ve done is abhorrent if they have! No reason to doubt the testimony of the girl of course or the first person she spoke to.

What they’ve done is deserving of a significant time in prison and deporting to their country of origin after serving their sentence that’s the law

Nothing would make me agree that the death sentence is appropriate for anyone I don’t think

I don't mean to be funny Pete, as this must obviously be a very difficult thing to have to navigate. What has happened to your children is terrible.

I just don't understand how you can be such an advocate for letting the kind of people into the country that we currently are, and who are increasing the amount of these kind of crimes we are seeing. If I recall correctly, one of the men who assaulted your daughter was from Iraq.

It makes zero sense to me why you are so nonchalant about importing men from countries where the culture is notoriously not to respect women, especially when it has happened to your own offspring.

I know it must be hard, so apologies again. I just really don't get this mindset at all.

 

[shmmeee]

I don't mean to be funny Pete, as this must obviously be a very difficult thing to have to navigate. What has happened to your children is terrible.

I just don't understand how you can be such an advocate for letting the kind of people into the country that we currently are, and who are increasing the amount of these kind of crimes we are seeing. If I recall correctly, one of the men who assaulted your daughter was from Iraq.

It makes zero sense to me why you are so nonchalant about importing men from countries where the culture is notoriously not to respect women, especially when it has happened to your own offspring.

I know it must be hard, so apologies again. I just really don't get this mindset at all.

No one is for letting in rapists but we don’t know who they are. What you’re asking for is to treat all people from I assume certain countries as assumed rapists and just never let them in. And what sort of percentages do you think we’re talking about here to justify that? Do we say no more Pakistanis even on work or study visas because we’ve had problems with Pakistani rape gangs? No Romanians and Bulgarians because of organised crime? How many criminals in a population before you ban them? 1 in 100? 1 in 20?

What is the actual policy you want? To send any men from say Afghanistan or Iraq back there? Regardless of the consequences?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

No one is for letting in rapists but we don’t know who they are. What you’re asking for is to treat all people from I assume certain countries as assumed rapists and just never let them in. And what sort of percentages do you think we’re talking about here to justify that? Do we say no more Pakistanis even on work or study visas because we’ve had problems with Pakistani rape gangs? No Romanians and Bulgarians because of organised crime? How many criminals in a population before you ban them? 1 in 100? 1 in 20?

What is the actual policy you want? To send any men from say Afghanistan or Iraq back there? Regardless of the consequences?

You've literally said it in your first line. We don't know who they are or what their backgrounds are. To pretend people from places like Afghanistan are not more likely to commit sexual offences is not even naive anymore, it's ignoring the facts. Why would you therefore take the risk?

Quite frankly one rapist is already too much. We are not the world police, and we shouldn't feel guilty about deporting people that don't belong here, rather than feeling sorry for them and just letting them in, which is what you are alluding to.

To be honest I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who would risk their children's safety in exchange for appearing progressive on border strictness. It has gone well too far already.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You've literally said it in your first line. We don't know who they are or what their backgrounds are. To pretend people from places like Afghanistan are not more likely to commit sexual offences is not even naive anymore, it's ignoring the facts. Why would you therefore take the risk?

Quite frankly one rapist is already too much. We are not the world police, and we shouldn't feel guilty about deporting people that don't belong here, rather than feeling sorry for them and just letting them in, which is what you are alluding to.

To be honest I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who would risk their children's safety in exchange for appearing progressive on border strictness. It has gone well too far already.

The vast majority of immigrants are law abiding people. The statistics also clearly show that.

 

[rob9872]

The vast majority of immigrants are law abiding people. The statistics also clearly show that.

So are the vast majority of non-immigrants. The statistics should be whether they are increasing the risk.

Not suggesting they are, I don't have tge data, but that's the true measure.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So are the vast majority of non-immigrants. The statistics should be whether they are increasing the risk.

Not suggesting they are, I don't have tge data, but that's the true measure.

I agree, the vast majority of human beings as a whole are law abiding. So smearing people based on country of origin, which they have no control over, is poor form in my book.

 

[chiefdave]

You've literally said it in your first line. We don't know who they are or what their backgrounds are. To pretend people from places like Afghanistan are not more likely to commit sexual offences is not even naive anymore, it's ignoring the facts. Why would you therefore take the risk?

Quite frankly one rapist is already too much. We are not the world police, and we shouldn't feel guilty about deporting people that don't belong here, rather than feeling sorry for them and just letting them in, which is what you are alluding to.

To be honest I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who would risk their children's safety in exchange for appearing progressive on border strictness. It has gone well too far already.

Just so I'm clear is your suggestion zero immigrants, be they economic immigrants, refugees, family reunions or any other type, because there is a possibility, no matter how small they might be a rapist?

How are you stopping holiday overstays, or are tourists out as well?

 

[rob9872]

I agree, the vast majority of human beings as a whole are law abiding. So smearing people based on country of origin, which they have no control over, is poor form in my book.

Agree with the basic premise of that, as I've said before we won the lottery being born here.

But if the normal rate of cuntery is eg 5% and we say 5% of humans are cunts, but those coming in are mainly men and in them it's 10% then we're raising the risk of the average humanity and therefore a demographic we should exclude.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Agree with the basic premise of that, as I've said before we won the lottery being born here.

But if the normal rate of cuntery is eg 5% and we say 5% of humans are cunts, but those coming in are mainly men and in them it's 10% then we're raising the risk of the average humanity and therefore a demographic we should exclude.

The issue is that Indians and Portuguese reflect better than home grown Brits on that measure. Are we all to be deported and replaced on that basis?

 

[rob9872]

The issue is that Indians and Portuguese reflect better than home grown Brits on that measure. Are we all to be deported and replaced on that basis?

No. But should we not therefore target the immigration quota from places like Portugal and India above other demographics? Add to society and don't create crime or drain resources. Can't see any reason not to.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No. But should we not therefore target the immigration quota from places like Portugal and India above other demographics? Add to society and don't create crime or drain resources. Can't see any reason not to.

Tarring whole groups of people by a cunty minority isn’t for me sorry.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Just so I'm clear is your suggestion zero immigrants, be they economic immigrants, refugees, family reunions or any other type, because there is a possibility, no matter how small they might be a rapist?

How are you stopping holiday overstays, or are tourists out as well?

No. Please read my post again.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don't mean to be funny Pete, as this must obviously be a very difficult thing to have to navigate. What has happened to your children is terrible.

I just don't understand how you can be such an advocate for letting the kind of people into the country that we currently are, and who are increasing the amount of these kind of crimes we are seeing. If I recall correctly, one of the men who assaulted your daughter was from Iraq.

It makes zero sense to me why you are so nonchalant about importing men from countries where the culture is notoriously not to respect women, especially when it has happened to your own offspring.

I know it must be hard, so apologies again. I just really don't get this mindset at all.

I don’t condone bringing in undocumented individuals that’s why we need a proper process to manage everything

It’s also why we need to not demonise immigrants / refugees and assume they’re all the same I think

Sorry to not make sense

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The vast majority of immigrants are law abiding people. The statistics also clearly show that.

Most people don't have STD's. It doesn't mean when you fuck a stranger you shouldn't use a condom.

There's far too many people in this country that we've let in who are absolute wrong'uns. That's where we need to start. We've been far too nice and tolerant and I think the majority of the country agree we need to be significantly stricter.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Most people don't have STD's. It doesn't mean when you fuck a stranger you shouldn't use a condom.

There's far too many people in this country that we've let in who are absolute wrong'uns. That's where we need to start. We've been far too nice and tolerant and I think the majority of the country agree we need to be significantly stricter.

I’d need to see some stats on the accuracy of that, some evidence

 

[LarryGrayson]

It’s also why we need to not demonise immigrants / refugees and assume they’re all the same I think

so obvious

 

[chiefdave]

No. Please read my post again.

I have, its says 'Quite frankly one rapist is already too much'. So how are you 100% guaranteeing immigrants from certain countries aren't going to commit horrific crimes?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

so obvious

What is Larry?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I don’t condone bringing in undocumented individuals that’s why we need a proper process to manage everything

It’s also why we need to not demonise immigrants / refugees and assume they’re all the same I think

Sorry to not make sense

Immigrants would be significantly less demonised if we didn't have so many pieces of shit coming in who are spoiling it for the rest. We have many amazing people, I agree, the majority are adding a lot. There are still a large amount of people who are total cunts though, and therefore I don't see any other choice at this stage but having to be stricter on this.

Sorry Pete, I just don't get your mindset on this. Especially after what happened to you.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Immigrants would be significantly less demonised if we didn't have so many pieces of shit coming in who are spoiling it for the rest. We have many amazing people, I agree, the majority are adding a lot. There are still a large amount of people who are total cunts though, and therefore I don't see any other choice at this stage but having to be stricter on this.

Sorry Pete, I just don't get your mindset on this. Especially after what happened to you.

We are being very strict but of course we don’t want to bring in cunts much like we want British cunts to be charged convicted and imprisoned

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I have, its says 'Quite frankly one rapist is already too much'. So how are you 100% guaranteeing immigrants from certain countries aren't going to commit horrific crimes?

No. You said I didn't want to let anyone immigrants in. Sorry, it's a lazy counter argument, and not what I said.

We need stricter measures, and frankly we cannot treat every country as the same. The world is not a paradise all the way round and there are many places on earth where many people's values are not aligned with ours.

This politically correct approach is just nonsense, and clearly hasn't worked.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Most people don't have STD's. It doesn't mean when you fuck a stranger you shouldn't use a condom.

There's far too many people in this country that we've let in who are absolute wrong'uns. That's where we need to start. We've been far too nice and tolerant and I think the majority of the country agree we need to be significantly stricter.

Then let’s deport all the British people from Britain in favour of Indians.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Then let’s deport all the British people from Britain in favour of Indians.

Again, there are plenty of wrong'uns already here. As much as I have nothing good to say about them, it doesn't mean you import more. Especially from places where women are regarded as second class citizens.

It's another nonsense argument I'm afraid. I would hope you were better than this.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Again, there are plenty of wrong'uns already here. As much as I have nothing good to say about them, it doesn't mean you import more. Especially from places where women are regarded as second class citizens.

It's another nonsense argument I'm afraid. I would hope you were better than this.

It’s the logical extension of your argument that we should tar whole groups with the same brush based on minorities.

Suppose you’re a hardworking skilled professional from Iraq who’s told he can’t work here because someone else from Iraq is a criminal? It’s not right.

 

[LarryGrayson]

It’s the logical extension of your argument that we should tar whole groups with the same brush based on minorities.

footy fans

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It’s the logical extension of your argument that we should tar whole groups with the same brush based on minorities.

Suppose you’re a hardworking skilled professional from Iraq who’s told he can’t work here because someone else from Iraq is a criminal? It’s not right.

The world isn't right. That's the reality of it. Most people in the UK (even if it is a bit harder at the moment) live in relative comfort in pretty inoffensive environments. Most have no idea what it is like in some of the places these people are coming from.

If the world was a utopia I would agree with you, but it isn't. You cannot just open the door with no diligence and expect zero consequences. If you do, you end up in a situation like we are seeing in many places in Europe at the moment - and it is fucked.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The world isn't right. That's the reality of it. Most people in the UK (even if it is a bit harder at the moment) live in relative comfort in pretty inoffensive environments. Most have no idea what it is like in some of the places these people are coming from.

If the world was a utopia I would agree with you, but it isn't. You cannot just open the door with no diligence and expect zero consequences. If you do, you end up in a situation like we are seeing in many places in Europe at the moment - and it is fucked.

There’s many answers once you accept there’s an issue that needs resolving without becoming a nation we are no longer proud of