Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Didn't know anything about him other than I knew him from the BBC so I've got no baggage with him. Just reads like evidence of why the left hardly ever gets power incl. his voice and writing style and perspective.

Feels biased towards Starmer and co. when he's writing that 'Labour is on target to build 1.5 million new homes by 2029'. Is it? If his aim was to remind you that left wing politics is still the Life of Brian, fair enough.

It read like a hurried and long winded defence of Starmer which... meh. He's right that a new party with Jezza and Zarah at the helm will be a mess. I'm hoping they'll do the organising at scale part and get good leaders.

The relevant bits are the inside politics bits about the left which he knows very well as he was part of Corbyn 1.0. These parties like Labour under Corbyn always end up as the latest vehicle for decades old rows between old leftists. The aim to “unite the working class and racialised communities” is frankly ludicrous and pretends that reform voters will vote for open borders if you just make them join a union at work.

As he points out those old leftists will have their feet under the table well before any membership.

But the last bit is the most important:

The strategic consequence will be to split the progressive vote, at the precise moment it will need to unite to stave off the one problem nobody in the Corbyn/Sultana movement wants to engage with: the mass radicalisation of people towards racism and fascism.

There is a self-deluding argument coming out of the far left, that says Starmer has somehow fuelled Reform’s rise, by acknowledging the challenges of immigration. Unfortunately, Reform doesn’t need any help: it is riding a real and virulent radicalisation, that’s being driven on social media and by ludicrously lax regulation of broadcasting.

The radicalisation of working class people towards the far right is the strategic problem – meaning that a left wing party that wants to govern has to do three things:

• Unite progressives around a common set of social objectives, so that we can start delivering redistributive justice to the communities where fascism is growing;
• Defend the rights of minorities, by restoring trust in democracy and damping down the rhetoric of hate and extremism that is trying to consume society
• And reach out into the communities where social conservatism and despair are growing with sensible, redistributive policies designed to win them away from Reform.

That’s what Labour actually did on 4 July 2024. It took the battle into small working class towns in the north and Midlands – something that the Corbyn/Sultana Party has no intention of doing (and neither do the Greens).

So my question to people attracted to Your Party is: do you want to sit in a self-created political ghetto, of graduates and “racialised people”? Or are you prepared to join the fight to defend democracy from Reform and the fascists, and defend Britain from foreign aggression. It’s not a new question - it’s a rerun of the question working class people faced in the 1930s.

This is existential shit guys. The alternative to Labour is fascism. Now is not the time to split the left.

The fact supposedly left wing posters on here spend ten time as much energy attacking Starmer as they do Farage is why my patience with them is wearing thin tbh. At some point you’re not an ironic cool guy you’re just a useful idiot.

 

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[mmttww]

The fact supposedly left wing posters on here spend ten time as much energy attacking Starmer as they do Farage is why my patience with them is wearing thin tbh. At some point you’re not an ironic cool guy you’re just a useful idiot.

and I think it's lacking ambition to hope that what Starmer is on track to deliver is the best we can get, so I understand folks entertaining something else.

You and Mason are probably right - it'll probably be a total mess crippled by agendas that ignore reality. We'll find out soon enough. I get your point.

 

[rob9872]

He's right that a new party with Jezza and Zarah at the helm will be a mess. I'm hoping they'll do the organising at scale part and get good leaders.

Farage and co at the helm will be a mess. I'm hoping they'll do the organising at scale part and get good leaders.

I don't believe this one bit of course, but ironic how one is used as a stick to beat with and the other, lets give them time and it might be ok.

Depends which side you sit on here of course, but extreme is extreme.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Queen Lucy is being released later today!

 

[rob9872]

Queen Lucy is being released later today!

You're not allowed to make any financial gain I believe from crime even post sentence, yet I imagine there's a workaround as the papers will be queuing up for the exclusive to tell 'her side of the story'

 

[chiefdave]

The idea that risk of losing the left wing vote is down to Starmer and Sultana is one of most bonkers things we've had on this thread and that's saying something.

What exactly did the brain trust at Labour HQ think was going to happen when they decided to force anyone with left wing views out of the party?

 

[chiefdave]

Some good news, well I would term it good but it may depend on your perspective, regarding asylum applications.

The backlog has reduced 24% from just before the election and applications are being processed faster.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You're not allowed to make any financial gain I believe from crime even post sentence, yet I imagine there's a workaround as the papers will be queuing up for the exclusive to tell 'her side of the story'

She deserves a run in government

 

[chiefdave]

She deserves a run in government

on what basis?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

on what basis?

Lots of loyal fans, and shes been let down by the system so knows how to repair it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Farage and co at the helm will be a mess. I'm hoping they'll do the organising at scale part and get good leaders.

I don't believe this one bit of course, but ironic how one is used as a stick to beat with and the other, lets give them time and it might be ok.

Depends which side you sit on here of course, but extreme is extreme.

Corbyn and Sultana are on an ego trip, said that from the start. So are Farage, Lowe and the other grifters on the opposite side.

Christ how the country needs some proper governance to nip these chancers in the bud and address the problems.

 

[SBT]

Queen Lucy is being released later today!

This forum should get a bit busier now, a few posters will have to end their candlelight vigils

 

[Ian1779]

I dont agree with everything he says and clearly he’s got an axe to grind but the thrust of his argument on the Labour movement and why it’s not and can’t ever be the far left are spot on.

Yeah there are a few salient points in there which makes sense, but I would I also say that he said Labour would tack left in government and haven’t really done so. They have done plenty to split the left vote themselves.

FWIW as much as I am a self professed Corbyn fan, a new party should probably not have him as leader. Have him involved for sure, but it needs someone younger to take it on.

 

[Ian1779]

Queen Lucy is being released later today!

She’ll have a GB News slot within 2 weeks.

 

[rob9872]

She’ll have a GB News slot within 2 weeks.

I'm not into all this 2 tier stuff or that she shouldn't have been locked up as she pleaded guilty, but it would be fun to see if she genuinely did get a gig like that, just to see everyone frothing at the mouth about it.

 

[Ian1779]

I'm not into all this 2 tier stuff or that she shouldn't have been locked up as she pleaded guilty, but it would be fun to see if she genuinely did get a gig like that, just to see everyone frothing at the mouth about it.

Some people genuinely would be frothing, hopefully most people will just not care. If she does she’s just another grifter on the gravy train.

She lost enough already in terms of her career as a childminder etc, not sure locking her up was a huge benefit all round. I’d much prefer that she faded into irrelevance.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Some people genuinely would be frothing, hopefully most people will just not care. If she does she’s just another grifter on the gravy train.

She lost enough already in terms of her career as a childminder etc, not sure locking her up was a huge benefit all round. I’d much prefer that she faded into irrelevance.

Where is this about her being released? Seen nothing on it.

 

[Ian1779]

Where is this about her being released? Seen nothing on it.

Lucy Connolly released from prison after race hate post on X

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Lucy Connolly released from prison after race hate post on X

Genuinely thought people were on about Lucy Letby…

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Lots of loyal fans, and shes been let down by the system so knows how to repair it

How many fans you've got isn't a metric on ability to run a country.

She was let down by her legal advice, not the judicial system.

And if we're talking about people being let down by the system is a means of knowing how to repair it then I suggest a lot of disabled people and poor people (especially those of colour) should be heading up the shortlist.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah there are a few salient points in there which makes sense, but I would I also say that he said Labour would tack left in government and haven’t really done so. They have done plenty to split the left vote themselves.

FWIW as much as I am a self professed Corbyn fan, a new party should probably not have him as leader. Have him involved for sure, but it needs someone younger to take it on.

The very idea of a party to the left of Labour is flawed without a much bigger public upswell around a single issue like immigration has done for the right. The problem with any left party is at best it’s a collection of grievances with the current Labour admin. There’s no parliamentary majority through Gaza or vague Apple pie statements. Even with all Labours institutional headwinds behind him Corbyn couldn’t beat a very bad Tory party.

The left seem to be studiously ignoring the rise of racism and fascism in this country because to do so would be to admit their folly and have to row back from all their hilarious Kid Starver posts and back the only left wing option that actually can win an election and keep it out.

 

[shmmeee]

How many fans you've got isn't a metric on ability to run a country.

She was let down by her legal advice, not the judicial system.

And if we're talking about people being let down by the system is a means of knowing how to repair it then I suggest a lot of disabled people and poor people (especially those of colour) should be heading up the shortlist.

She categorically was not let down by her legal advice. She argued this in court and lost.

 

[shmmeee]

why ShOuLd We CuT eMiSsIoNs WhEn ChInA eXiStS?

China races to build world’s largest solar farm to hit emission goals

China has been installing solar panels at a blistering pace, far faster than anywhere else in the world

www.independent.co.uk