Embarrassing (7 Viewers)

[SHUNT31]

You realise they can’t apply to more than one country so if they apply in France that’s that? Most of them are coming because they have family or they speak English so can find work easier. Families in war zones send young men because they’re most likely to survive the journey and be able to either send for the family or send money back from work.

I understand that. My point is that if you were genuinely seeking refuge, and had found it in the multiple countries it takes to reach France, why are you risking your life on a dinghy?

I get that the reasons you listed are probably right in some cases but I can’t fathom the risk. Hard as I have and hopefully will never be in that position, but it’s just my view.

Do we need people coming in to our country and taking money out the economy? That’s of no benefit to us at all.

 

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[David O'Day]

if King brings out a line of tin foil hats just image the players we could sign with the profits

 

[SHUNT31]

What’s your supporting evidence for this view?

Like I said, just my view and feeling. There have been marches and protests up and down the country this past month or so. I can assure you, these are ordinary people.

Starmer’s approval rate also proves that majority of people do not agree with how he’s operating, despite a landslide victory for labour just one year ago. Even majority of labour voters do not approve now.

 

[SkyBluePower]

It’s just my view that there has been a seismic shift in the past year or so and that people who are genuine ordinary people are being branded racist and far right for being genuinely concerned with what’s happening at the moment. The current government are an absolute shambles and Starmer, whether he is or not, in a lot of people’s eyes is not on their side.

Having 2 political parties who’s only agenda at the moment is immigration ( and an authoritarian labour govt making a lot of the same noises) plus a Press and increasingly TV news that puts it top of the agenda has given people the approval to spout all this shite- if it’s ok for politicians to say it and GMB to amplify it then it’s ok for me then.
You would think there is nothing else going on in this country some days.

 

[torchomatic]

It’s just my view that there has been a seismic shift in the past year or so and that people who are genuine ordinary people are being branded racist and far right for being genuinely concerned with what’s happening at the moment. The current government are an absolute shambles and Starmer, whether he is or not, in a lot of people’s eyes is not on their side.

Nah, that's bollocks. If you're talking about all those racists on Twitter and social media who say people should be burned alive in hotels, or protesters outside hotels and hurling racist abuse or stopping cars to see the colour of the occupants then they may be "ordinary people" but they are also ordinary racist people.

They were there before, of course, but Brexit and now Reform have encouraged xenophobia and racism amongst the "ordinary people" who kept their racism to themselves or within their small circle of friends, etc. It wasn't acceptable to be a member of the NF or BNP but perfectly acceptable to be in Reform who have more than their fair share of racists.

I can remember vividly being at matches in the 70s and 80s and hearing monkey chants and bananas thrown at players at corners. Not as bad as that yet, but there is certainly a shift in attitudes and I blame Farage et al, not Starmer.

 

[David O'Day]

Like I said, just my view and feeling. There have been marches and protests up and down the country this past month or so. I can assure you, these are ordinary people.

Starmer’s approval rate also proves that majority of people do not agree with how he’s operating, despite a landslide victory for labour just one year ago. Even majority of labour voters do not approve now.

The protests are very small though and the PMs approval rating is mostly based on economics which can change quickly.

 

[David O'Day]

I understand that. My point is that if you were genuinely seeking refuge, and had found it in the multiple countries it takes to reach France, why are you risking your life on a dinghy?

I get that the reasons you listed are probably right in some cases but I can’t fathom the risk. Hard as I have and hopefully will never be in that position, but it’s just my view.

Do we need people coming in to our country and taking money out the economy? That’s of no benefit to us at all.

People do go to other european countries.

A lot of people come here because they have family ties but it's a myth they all just come here.

 

[bigfatronssba]

On a boat across perilous seas? How’s that civilised?

Back home can’t be that bad then right?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Having seen people close up being brought from the sea to Lampedusa by rescuers, I doubt anyone on here would make those kinds of journeys unless you felt it was really necessary.

It’s not necessary. France is a safe country

 

[Perennial Lurker]

Having 2 political parties who’s only agenda at the moment is immigration ( and an authoritarian labour govt making a lot of the same noises) plus a Press and increasingly TV news that puts it top of the agenda has given people the approval to spout all this shite- if it’s ok for politicians to say it and GMB to amplify it then it’s ok for me then.
You would think there is nothing else going on in this country some days.

Saves anyone looking at failing public services, failing NHS, failing education and schools falling down , no infrastructure being built , no aspirations for young people .
We have become ,over a period of time , a regressive society . With poverty and low income becoming the norm it creates just the right environment to divide and create hatred and distrust . These factors historically have created the society and tensions we are currently experiencing here today .
I've been very fortunate to travel and experience progressive countries and it is night and day compared to what we accept as normal

 

[bigfatronssba]

Civilised cultures shouldn't bomb women and children.

Given that most of these people are coming from countries that are constantly in civil war, your comment isn’t the gotcha you think it is

 

[bigfatronssba]

I'm not a leftie and not angry but I just don't see the point of putting a city badge on it.

By all means, make stickers with Mps and stop the boats but what's the point in a city badge (or any other football club?)

Is it the sticker equivalent of "Look after him, from a Coventry Fan xx" ?

And I completely agree with that.

We have two groups of people here.

1) People angry that a football match, and specifically our club, getting dragged into party politics (I put myself in that category)

2) People that are angry because they think anything other than a left wing position is fascist

 

[shmmeee]

I understand that. My point is that if you were genuinely seeking refuge, and had found it in the multiple countries it takes to reach France, why are you risking your life on a dinghy?

I get that the reasons you listed are probably right in some cases but I can’t fathom the risk. Hard as I have and hopefully will never be in that position, but it’s just my view.

Do we need people coming in to our country and taking money out the economy? That’s of no benefit to us at all.

Because they are seeking refuge here and a dingy is the only way to get here. There’s no legal routes outside of Ukraine/Afghanistan/HK schemes.

You can say “well they should stay closer” and the vast majority do. Countries bordering these places have millions of refugees compared to our thousands. But some will want to try and not live in a Turkish refugee camp and try and get somewhere they have family or a better chance of earning a wage.

And again Brexit has meant that we don’t have the cooperation we had to manage these people before they try to dingy across.

 

[shmmeee]

And I completely agree with that.

We have two groups of people here.

1) People angry that a football match, and specifically our club, getting dragged into party politics (I put myself in that category)

2) People that are angry because they think anything other than a left wing position is fascist

People that are angry because they support a fascist party and are getting called fascist by association.

 

[wingy]

Given that most of these people are coming from countries that are constantly in civil war, your comment isn’t the gotcha you think it is

Like Rwanda then?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Nah, that's bollocks. If you're talking about all those racists on Twitter and social media who say people should be burned alive in hotels, or protesters outside hotels and hurling racist abuse or stopping cars to see the colour of the occupants then they may be "ordinary people" but they are also ordinary racist people.

They were there before, of course, but Brexit and now Reform have encouraged xenophobia and racism amongst the "ordinary people" who kept their racism to themselves or within their small circle of friends, etc. It wasn't acceptable to be a member of the NF or BNP but perfectly acceptable to be in Reform who have more than their fair share of racists.

I can remember vividly being at matches in the 70s and 80s and hearing monkey chants and bananas thrown at players at corners. Not as bad as that yet, but there is certainly a shift in attitudes and I blame Farage et al, not Starmer.

If it wasn’t so cliched, I’d respond with the “everyone I don’t like is Hitler” meme to this

 

[bigfatronssba]

People that are angry because they support a fascist party and are getting called fascist by association.

Which of their policies are fascist?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Like Rwanda then?

It’s not 1995 anymore

 

[Ashdown]

What is strange is the population isnt going up, despite all these invaders. I am convinced that hardworking British people are being sacrificed by the elite to our Alien overlords, and being replaced by these overseas immigrants.

The population is growing year on year, got your facts right at least .

 

[bigfatronssba]

Because they are seeking refuge here and a dingy is the only way to get here. There’s no legal routes outside of Ukraine/Afghanistan/HK schemes.

You can say “well they should stay closer” and the vast majority do. Countries bordering these places have millions of refugees compared to our thousands. But some will want to try and not live in a Turkish refugee camp and try and get somewhere they have family or a better chance of earning a wage.

And again Brexit has meant that we don’t have the cooperation we had to manage these people before they try to dingy across.

You say that like it’s our problem to solve.

What benefit are any of these boat people to us?

 

[mmttww]

I'm enjoying this thread now because it's making me think of that Red Dwarf episode when Lister thinks he's a fascist IRL because he's told Red Dwarf has all been a simulation.

 

[Grendel]

Just seen your other post, not going to go through an off topic thread to find it.

How is the opposite true?

He is including people from India. Indians generally aren’t seen on a boat across the channel.

 

[wingy]

It’s not 1995 anymore

No it's last year and they're not still sponsoring it.

 

[SHUNT31]

Nah, that's bollocks. If you're talking about all those racists on Twitter and social media who say people should be burned alive in hotels, or protesters outside hotels and hurling racist abuse or stopping cars to see the colour of the occupants then they may be "ordinary people" but they are also ordinary racist people.

They were there before, of course, but Brexit and now Reform have encouraged xenophobia and racism amongst the "ordinary people" who kept their racism to themselves or within their small circle of friends, etc. It wasn't acceptable to be a member of the NF or BNP but perfectly acceptable to be in Reform who have more than their fair share of racists.

I can remember vividly being at matches in the 70s and 80s and hearing monkey chants and bananas thrown at players at corners. Not as bad as that yet, but there is certainly a shift in attitudes and I blame Farage et al, not Starmer.

But it’s not bollocks though. You having a different opinion doesn’t make it wrong.

I am obviously not talking about those people. They are clearly not the ones I am referring to, and you know it. They are horrible people who unfortunately take the views of others to the extreme and should be punished accordingly. There are also people on the other side who take it too far, you going to condemn them?

You do know Reform are ran by a Muslim of Asian descent, right?


Do you genuinely believe that the people on these marches will be doing monkey chants etc? For starters, these marches include people of all races.

Nonsensical.

 

[Nick]

He is including people from India. Indians generally aren’t seen on a boat across the channel.

It is quite clear the discussion is about people arriving on boats and entering the country illegally.

Not somebody getting a VISA and coming into the country legally from Denmark or something but it likes to blur the lines. The same as when people say they have an issue with illegal immigration it's "nurses and doctors".

 

[Ashdown]

The most ridiculous posts on these threads are hysterical individuals who start claiming they are ‘ outing ‘ people! What like they are child murderers or peadophiles ….for having an opposing political view. Come on really, some of you are ordinarily sensible contributors.

 

[mmttww]

@Nick - reckon this one can be moved to off-topic? Not a lot of chat about how the club fits into it all.

 

[Perennial Lurker]

The most ridiculous posts on these threads are hysterical individuals who start claiming they are ‘ outing ‘ people! What like they are child murderers or peadophiles ….for having an opposing political view. Come on really, some of you are ordinarily sensible contributors.

Spot on , none of us view the world through the same set of eyes . Our opinions are mainly based on lived experience

 

[SHUNT31]

Having 2 political parties who’s only agenda at the moment is immigration ( and an authoritarian labour govt making a lot of the same noises) plus a Press and increasingly TV news that puts it top of the agenda has given people the approval to spout all this shite- if it’s ok for politicians to say it and GMB to amplify it then it’s ok for me then.
You would think there is nothing else going on in this country some days.

It’s the main agenda because it’s an important issue.

That said, just because you find no issue with the current immigration situation doesn’t mean others can’t express their views.

What is ‘shite’ to you, is echoed by others.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

L

Which of their policies are fascist?

I’d have thought promoting the judeo-Christian family as Farage has done at the expense of ridding the country of all undesirables sounds pretty similar to the last major fascist regime in the past 150 years

 

[bigfatronssba]

L

I’d have thought promoting the judeo-Christian family as Farage has done at the expense of ridding the country of all undesirables sounds pretty similar to the last major fascist regime in the past 150 years

You want undesirables here?

 

[SHUNT31]

The protests are very small though and the PMs approval rating is mostly based on economics which can change quickly.

But with how it’s all being handled, they’re only going to grow. Every day we hear a new story about something that has happened. It’s a ticking time bomb, imo.

 

[bigfatronssba]

L

I’d have thought promoting the judeo-Christian family as Farage has done at the expense of ridding the country of all undesirables sounds pretty similar to the last major fascist regime in the past 150 years

Yvette Cooper has pledged to deport all foreign undesirables as well.

Presumably you think Ms Cooper is also a fascist?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

You want undesirables here?

The question then becomes what are “undesirables” you can start with the boat people, but then our criminals are shipped to El Salvador… as has also been suggested by Farage

 

[Perennial Lurker]

It’s the main agenda because it’s an important issue.

That said, just because you find no issue with the current immigration situation doesn’t mean others can’t express their views.

What is ‘shite’ to you, is echoed by others.

This is where I struggle personally.
Yes immigration is important but is it as important as the NHS, lack of police on the streets, lack of housing , low wages , food banks , education , public services etc , etc ?
Sometimes wonder if by focusing on the most divisive issues our political parties take the focus off other more important ones ?