Liam Kitching (82 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I mean our left back gets more sleep during 90 minutes than I do in a night. Countless times teams get success down that side of the pitch.

Fucking hell man.

Yeah sure bro. Jay Dasilva mind controlled Bobby Thomas into a shit clearance and a handball. Damn you Jay!! *shakes fist*

Literally anything to avoid placing any responsibility for defence on the central defenders. No it’s all the attacking full backs fault guys honest! No it’s Matt Grimes! Wait no it’s because we play like Liverpool!

Listen to yourselves. Occam would be rolling in his grave.

This place would watch Thomas and Kitching hand the ball to the opposition and lay out a red carpet to goal and this forum would blame Jay Dasilva because fifteen minutes earlier he lost the ball.

What on earth two mid championship CBs have over normally sensible posters Ive no idea but never seen anything like it. Just completely immune to criticism on here. Even the slightest impression you don’t think they’re the two greatest CBs in the country and half the forum descends on you like flying monkeys to tell you it’s everyone’s fault but the defence that the defence is shit.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Fucking hell man.

Yeah sure bro. Jay Dasilva mind controlled Bobby Thomas into a shit clearance and a handball. Damn you Jay!! *shakes fist*

Literally anything to avoid placing any responsibility for defence on the central defenders. No it’s all the attacking full backs fault guys honest! No it’s Matt Grimes! Wait no it’s because we play like Liverpool!

Listen to yourselves. Occam would be rolling in his grave.

To be clear, I think we need better at CB. But in just the two league games Dasilva has switched off, had players cut inside him at will, along with the old chestnut of teams playing the ball over his head.

Doesn’t make the task any easier

 

[shmmeee]

To be clear, I think we need better at CB. But in just the two league games Dasilva has switched off, had players cut inside him at will, along with the old chestnut of teams playing the ball over his head.

Doesn’t make the task any easier

If you think Jay Dasilva is at the route of every goal we concede I’ve no idea what to say.

I saw people defending Bobby Thomas’s “clearance” for the third with “it’s all MvEs fault for putting the ball out for a throw in”

No. It’s not our wingbacks fault our CBs can’t defend their box. Sorry. Frankly Dasilva has had a better start to the season than either of them but that’s irrelevant on here since he reached meme status.

 

[torchomatic]

I think JDS has been playing well. None of the goals on Saturday could be blamed on him.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If you think Jay Dasilva is at the route of every goal we concede I’ve no idea what to say.

I saw people defending Bobby Thomas’s “clearance” for the third with “it’s all MvEs fault for putting the ball out for a throw in”

No. It’s not our wingbacks fault our CBs can’t defend their box. Sorry. Frankly Dasilva has had a better start to the season than either of them but that’s irrelevant on here since he reached meme status.

Not what I said for starters. They have their own defensive deficiencies but they’re in a back 4, not a 5, and the full backs have to contribute. MVE’s pace bails him out most of the time, Dasilva doesn’t have that, switches off far too often and needs his teammmates to bail him out who just happen to be the CBs.

I also think we could reduce the number of set piece goals against by crazy innovations like putting men on the posts or leaving a few players up, but that’s another debate.

 

[shmmeee]

Not what I said for starters. They have their own defensive deficiencies but they’re in a back 4, not a 5, and the full backs have to contribute. MVE’s pace bails him out most of the time, Dasilva doesn’t have that, switches off far too often and needs his teammmates to bail him out who just happen to be the CBs.

I also think we could reduce the number of set piece goals against by crazy innovations like putting men on the posts or leaving a few players up, but that’s another debate.

They play high up the pitch by instruction and Grimes drops into a 3. He’s got more defensive duties than they have when we’ve got the ball. Regardless as I pointed out to Evo and Sparks who tried this we aren’t complaining about being cut open on the break but stupid mistakes and poor organisation at things like Set pieces.

Literally all I’m asking is for one of you to accept th CBs are the most significant part of the defence and not every other player on the pitch first. And also that better CBs than Thomas and Kitching exist.

 

[shmmeee]

I think JDS has been playing well. None of the goals on Saturday could be blamed on him.

He’s the go to but we’ve had MvE Grimes Torp and everyone else thrown under the bus first to explain why our CBs can’t defend their box.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He’s the go to but we’ve had MvE Grimes Torp and everyone else thrown under the bus first to explain why our CBs can’t defend their box.

Frankly I’d like us to take the hint that if we concede such poor goals from them so often despite cramming our own box, maybe it’s not a good tactic…

 

[Shannerz]

Fucking hell man.

Yeah sure bro. Jay Dasilva mind controlled Bobby Thomas into a shit clearance and a handball. Damn you Jay!! *shakes fist*

Literally anything to avoid placing any responsibility for defence on the central defenders. No it’s all the attacking full backs fault guys honest! No it’s Matt Grimes! Wait no it’s because we play like Liverpool!

Listen to yourselves. Occam would be rolling in his grave.

This place would watch Thomas and Kitching hand the ball to the opposition and lay out a red carpet to goal and this forum would blame Jay Dasilva because fifteen minutes earlier he lost the ball.

What on earth two mid championship CBs have over normally sensible posters Ive no idea but never seen anything like it. Just completely immune to criticism on here. Even the slightest impression you don’t think they’re the two greatest CBs in the country and half the forum descends on you like flying monkeys to tell you it’s everyone’s fault but the defence that the defence is shit.

"Our set-up leaves our centre-backs exposed', and 'our centre-backs are prone to error' are not mutually exclusive statements.

We do need to sure up that left-hand side (perhaps Brau will do that). We also need more pace at the back and at least one centre-back of higher quality (I don't know if that's feasible, and suspect such players are beyond our means).

Our defence needs work, and that means both system and personnel.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They play high up the pitch by instruction and Grimes drops into a 3. He’s got more defensive duties than they have when we’ve got the ball. Regardless as I pointed out to Evo and Sparks who tried this we aren’t complaining about being cut open on the break but stupid mistakes and poor organisation at things like Set pieces.

Literally all I’m asking is for one of you to accept th CBs are the most significant part of the defence and not every other player on the pitch first. And also that better CBs than Thomas and Kitching exist.

I said up the page and elsewhere, I want better CBs. Just think you’ll be disappointed if you think that alone will sort the issues.

 

[SBT]

I think we need an upgrade on Kitching long-term, but he is absolutely capable of being a top-tier Championship CB on his day and Saturday was one of those. If he can do that consistently then it bodes well for our season.

 

[TomRad85]

They play high up the pitch by instruction and Grimes drops into a 3. He’s got more defensive duties than they have when we’ve got the ball. Regardless as I pointed out to Evo and Sparks who tried this we aren’t complaining about being cut open on the break but stupid mistakes and poor organisation at things like Set pieces.

Literally all I’m asking is for one of you to accept th CBs are the most significant part of the defence and not every other player on the pitch first. And also that better CBs than Thomas and Kitching exist.

I think you've fallen so far into this Dasilva/Bidwell debate you have going on with a couple of other posters you are unfortunately refusing to see what most now see, which is that neither are really good enough. Bidwell is unfortunately slow and a bit past it, Dasilva is good on the ball but is weak and easily beaten.
Ask yourself which of the back 4 that started at the weekend would A. Make us the least money if sold, and B. Would likely get the poorest move if sold? I honestly think you know the answer to that.
Should we look to improve our CBs if possible? Of course.. and we just bid £8 million in an attempt to do so it seems. But the LB position, at least until we know a bit more about Brau, is by far the weakest.

Also it's ok to change an opinion on a player, i spent until fairly deep into last season glazing Simms vs the evil Evo, but eventually i just had to accept that for the most part i was watching a bloke waddling about not doing very much.

 

[shmmeee]

I think you've fallen so far into this Dasilva/Bidwell debate you have going on with a couple of other posters you are unfortunately refusing to see what most now see, which is that neither are really good enough. Bidwell is unfortunately slow and a bit past it, Dasilva is good on the ball but is weak and easily beaten.
Ask yourself which of the back 4 that started at the weekend would A. Make us the least money if sold, and B. Would likely get the poorest move if sold? I honestly think you know the answer to that.
Should we look to improve our CBs if possible? Of course.. and we just bid £8 million in an attempt to do so it seems. But the LB position, at least until we know a bit more about Brau, is by far the weakest.

Also it's ok to change an opinion on a player, i spent until fairly deep into last season glazing Simms vs the evil Evo, but eventually i just had to accept that for the most part i was watching a bloke waddling about not doing very much.

I just find it incredibly frustrating that it’s verboten to talk about our CBs failings on this site. They’re not very good and god dammit I’ll say so. Another player in a different position may also not be very good (though again it’s massively overblown) but that doesn’t change the fact that the main reason any defence is poor is mostly down to the CBs and the coaching not the number 8 or the left and right backs or the weather or whatever. Week after week I watch those two defend badly then come on here to threads about how they’re future PL stars because they hit a pass despite letting 3 in against a team with about one recognised fit forward.

 

[TomRad85]

I just find it incredibly frustrating that it’s verboten to talk about our CBs failings on this site. They’re not very good and god dammit I’ll say so. Another player in a different position may also not be very good (though again it’s massively overblown) but that doesn’t change the fact that the main reason any defence is poor is mostly down to the CBs and the coaching not the number 8 or the left and right backs or the weather or whatever. Week after week I watch those two defend badly then come on here to threads about how they’re future PL stars because they hit a pass despite letting 3 in against a team with about one recognised fit forward.

I'm fine with you criticising them but most don't think they are as bad as you seem to. Opinions are fine but you'll obviously get pushback from those that disagree too (i've been there.)
I thought Kitching was the best of the back 4 by far at the weekend, in terms of defending at least. Thomas and MvE both had poor defensive displays but made up for it at the other end, people used to enjoy that kind of redemption in a game of football.
Ultimately i don't think you need to sweat it, if we don't get another CB it won't be for the want of trying. You don't bid £8 million just for the sake of it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm fine with you criticising them but most don't think they are as bad as you seem to. Opinions are fine but you'll obviously get pushback from those that disagree too (i've been there.)
I thought Kitching was the best of the back 4 by far at the weekend, in terms of defending at least. Thomas and MvE both had poor defensive displays but made up for it at the other end, people used to enjoy that kind of redemption in a game of football.
Ultimately i don't think you need to sweat it, if we don't get another CB it won't be for the want of trying. You don't bid £8 million just for the sake of it.

We certainly do given who’s the back up CB. Sure we are trying though.

 

[SwanLane]

Verboten? There are pages and pages worth of comments on this site criticising Thomas & Kitching.

They’re not the best in the Champ but have got plus points. They’re also young enough to improve although I’d be happier if we had 1 or 2 more options. Worth saying that they haven’t been helped by playing in front of Collins.

 

[TomRad85]

We certainly do given who’s the back up CB. Sure we are trying though.

Yeh remains to be seen whether we go big on 'guaranteed starter' level or lower our aim to 'will compete for a start' level. Someone will come in for sure.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Yeh remains to be seen whether we go big on 'guaranteed starter' level or lower our aim to 'will compete for a start' level. Someone will come in for sure.

Tanganga is my dream

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Tanganga is my dream

Tangangarine Dream.

 

[TomRad85]

Tanganga is my dream

Am i right in thinking any kind of clause he might have is for Prem teams only?
Think we'd have to go big to tempt them if so, as Millwall may well fancy their chances a bit this season.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Am i right in thinking any kind of clause he might have is for Prem teams only?
Think we'd have to go big to tempt them if so, as Millwall may well fancy their chances a bit this season.

I think that’s right but not sure we’d be looking at anything like the £8-£10mil quoted for Hughes.
He’d be a great signing.

 

[mmttww]

I just find it incredibly frustrating that it’s verboten to talk about our CBs failings on this site. They’re not very good and god dammit I’ll say so. Another player in a different position may also not be very good (though again it’s massively overblown) but that doesn’t change the fact that the main reason any defence is poor is mostly down to the CBs and the coaching not the number 8 or the left and right backs or the weather or whatever. Week after week I watch those two defend badly then come on here to threads about how they’re future PL stars because they hit a pass despite letting 3 in against a team with about one recognised fit forward.

Wasn't the consensus that the bid for Thomas at the figure first reported seemed a bit mad i.e. folks didn't think he was as good as Sheff Utd seem to?

and I really don't remember seeing praise of Kitching or Thomas to the extent that you're saying it's existed. It feels like you're arguing vs. no one.

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell man.

Yeah sure bro. Jay Dasilva mind controlled Bobby Thomas into a shit clearance and a handball. Damn you Jay!! *shakes fist*

Literally anything to avoid placing any responsibility for defence on the central defenders. No it’s all the attacking full backs fault guys honest! No it’s Matt Grimes! Wait no it’s because we play like Liverpool!

Listen to yourselves. Occam would be rolling in his grave.

This place would watch Thomas and Kitching hand the ball to the opposition and lay out a red carpet to goal and this forum would blame Jay Dasilva because fifteen minutes earlier he lost the ball.

What on earth two mid championship CBs have over normally sensible posters Ive no idea but never seen anything like it. Just completely immune to criticism on here. Even the slightest impression you don’t think they’re the two greatest CBs in the country and half the forum descends on you like flying monkeys to tell you it’s everyone’s fault but the defence that the defence is shit.

Drivel

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Drivel

Dasilva literally is in the defence he’s calling shit

 

[Grendel]

Dasilva literally is in the defence he’s calling shit

But remember

"Dasilva is an excellent footballer."

 

[Hutch11]

But remember

"Dasilva is an excellent footballer."

Dasilva is not as bad as some will have you believe, not excellent but not shit either

 

[Shannerz]

Dasilva is not as bad as some will have you believe, not excellent but not shit either

He's hopelessly exposed against some teams / players, but fine against others.
You can't play him against anyone with pace when you're playing a high-line, we'll be ripped apart down that side.

He's good defensively against technical players, though, and has excellent technique and close control.

He's a good footballer, but a liability in certain scenarios.

This is on the management team to make sure that they are picking the right players to counter the opposition., though.

 

[Ashdown]

Dasilva is pretty useful in possession at times but as soon as the opposition catch on that a ball popped over his head for someone to run onto then he is toast.
Our centre backs have mistakes in them for sure but Kitching has been playing really well and Thomas is being touted for big money so not without admirers either.

 

[Cally Fedora]

No one is saying Kitching and Thomas are the Baresi twins. They are capable championship level CH’s. There are better and worse in the division. They make their share of mistakes and some of the goals we concede are really poor. But, on balance, our full backs are worse, especially on the left. So the CH’s arent blameless or perfect but they’re not the biggest issue.

 

[torchomatic]

Tangangarine Dream.

Brill joke and brill band. Search YouTube for their concert in Cov Cathedral in the 70s. Phenomenal.

 

[CCFCSteve]

He's hopelessly exposed against some teams / players, but fine against others.
You can't play him against anyone with pace when you're playing a high-line, we'll be ripped apart down that side.

He's good defensively against technical players, though, and has excellent technique and close control.

He's a good footballer, but a liability in certain scenarios.

This is on the management team to make sure that they are picking the right players to counter the opposition., though.

Yeah was going to say pretty much the same. With hindsight, Dasilva was always going to struggle a bit on Saturday as they’re a strong team that’s focussed around set pieces and getting it in the box.

A couple of times I checked how we set up when derby were on the other side of the pitch and we understandably squeeze/ condense that side so Dasilva would tuck in a bit leaving a lot of space over his head and behind. Presume most teams do this naturally but might also tie into us playing a high line. Unfortunately that leaves us open to long switch balls, MvE has leap/pace to deal with this but Dasilva doesn’t.

So, as you say, I’m not sure that it’s just Dasilvas fault, it’s also how we set up. ultimately though if he doesn’t fit that defence set up then someone else might be better suited at LB against certain opposition

 

[wingy]

It was possibly a lapse on his part, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater and just identify when this is likely to be!

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

I think we need an upgrade on Kitching long-term, but he is absolutely capable of being a top-tier Championship CB on his day and Saturday was one of those. If he can do that consistently then it bodes well for our season.

" an upgrade on Kitching" crikey he'd be some player and how much would that cost.

 

[SBT]

" an upgrade on Kitching" crikey he'd be some player and how much would that cost.

Well if you’re asking Hull City, quite a lot.

 

[stevefloyd]

I've always found the 2 of them to be a fairly similar standard personally. That standard being much better than Lati and Binks.

To be fair the bar wasn't set that high with them to begin with!