Israel - Palestinian Conflict (8 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Despite what some of the Starmer sycophants have claimed on here — UK sent Israel thousands of military items despite export ban, study finds

 

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[SkyBlueDom26]

Gaza: Dozens killed by Israeli gunfire near aid distribution sites, Hamas-run ministry says

More than 100 others were also injured near two sites run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, according to the Hamas-run health ministry and civil defence agency.

www.bbc.co.uk

while pensioners are being arrested for protesting against this sh*t. If you accept folks being arrested on terrorism charges because some planes got a paint job, while folks queuing for food are being used for target practice , ashamed I'm a fan of the same football club as you. How bad does it have to get?

Some planes got a paint job? Oh so you think that’s acceptable then on our own military sites. Get a grip there’s no links between the 2

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Despite what some of the Starmer sycophants have claimed on here — UK sent Israel thousands of military items despite export ban, study finds

And it seems to me that Keir lived his life
Like a plastic bag in the wind

 

[Grendel]

Gaza: Dozens killed by Israeli gunfire near aid distribution sites, Hamas-run ministry says

More than 100 others were also injured near two sites run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, according to the Hamas-run health ministry and civil defence agency.

www.bbc.co.uk

while pensioners are being arrested for protesting against this sh*t. If you accept folks being arrested on terrorism charges because some planes got a paint job, while folks queuing for food are being used for target practice , ashamed I'm a fan of the same football club as you. How bad does it have to get?

Anybody breaking into a military air base and damaging equipment deserves jail time. These people aren’t saving anybody. If they want to go and join a military organisation rather than seeking attention.

 

[shmmeee]

Despite what some of the Starmer sycophants have claimed on here — UK sent Israel thousands of military items despite export ban, study finds

Have you read the article? There’s no evidence they’re breaking sanctions. It’s all assumptions by three activist groups who if it wasn’t true wouldn’t have much to do here.

Israel have a $50bn defence budget. This is like 1% of their spend even if it was what they say it’s hardly the show stopper to the genocide is it?

The idea that you can impact Gaza by attacking Kier Starmer must sound really nice but it’s not based in reality is it?

 

[PVA]

Despite what some of the Starmer sycophants have claimed on here — UK sent Israel thousands of military items despite export ban, study finds

You might want to read the actual report before you get too excited

 

[Grendel]

Yeah I'm sure it's the city fans bombing innocent people.

Save your fake dramatics for wasps. Are you actually going to city games wondering which other fans you're ashamed of?

It’s I think the most stupid comment I’ve seen. Support terrorist organisations or less.

 

[Grendel]

Mmmm

The UK May Have Paused Trade Talks with Israel, but Arms Exports are Still the Elephant in the Room

On Wednesday June 4, former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn tabled a bill in Parliament calling for an inquiry into the UK's involvement, and possible complicity, in Israeli military operations in Gaza. His intervention is likely to heap yet more pressure on a government struggling to justify, in...

www.hrw.org

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interestingly my trip back to the airport this afternoon was delayed by these protests. Equally interesting how nobody got arrested for a peaceful protest

Thousands take part in march for Palestine in Dublin

 

[shmmeee]

Interestingly my trip back to the airport this afternoon was delayed by these protests. Equally interesting how nobody got arrested for a peaceful protest

Thousands take part in march for Palestine in Dublin

Its almost like they weren’t protesting by intentionally breaking laws in front of police to try and get arrested.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Its almost like they weren’t protesting by intentionally breaking laws in front of police to try and get arrested.

The Irish government hasn't proscribed what is clearly a peaceful protest movement as terrorists you mean

 

[Sick Boy]

The Irish government hasn't proscribed what is clearly a peaceful protest movement as terrorists you mean

And actually recognises Palestine.

 

[Sick Boy]

Have you read the article? There’s no evidence they’re breaking sanctions. It’s all assumptions by three activist groups who if it wasn’t true wouldn’t have much to do here.

Israel have a $50bn defence budget. This is like 1% of their spend even if it was what they say it’s hardly the show stopper to the genocide is it?

The idea that you can impact Gaza by attacking Kier Starmer must sound really nice but it’s not based in reality is it?

 

[PVA]

Have you read the report?

 

[Sick Boy]

Have you read the report?

Yes, I have. Unlike you I don’t blindly trust the government, especially as it’s more than happy to cosy up to Israel.

 

[PVA]

Yes, I have. Unlike you I don’t blindly trust the government, especially as it’s more than happy to cosy up to Israel.

So what in the report do you find so outrageous?

 

[Sick Boy]

So what in the report do you find so outrageous?

There should be a total arms embargo, which there clearly isn’t.

We’ve already had claims that it’s only 1% of the Israeli budget so it’s not a big deal - do you agree with that?

 

[Sick Boy]

Awkward - UK Labour approved more weapons to Israel in three months than Tories did in four years

 

[PVA]

There should be a total arms embargo, which there clearly isn’t.

We’ve already had claims that it’s only 1% of the Israeli budget so it’s not a big deal - do you agree with that?

Well it's probably less than that, but if you look at the actual categories of items exported since the license ban in that report it's pretty much all non-military stuff.

 

[SBAndy]

Awkward - UK Labour approved more weapons to Israel in three months than Tories did in four years

I mean, I don’t agree at all with the Government’s stance but to compare these when Israel weren’t in ‘direct’ conflict during the four years is a bit suspect.

 

[shmmeee]

There should be a total arms embargo, which there clearly isn’t.

We’ve already had claims that it’s only 1% of the Israeli budget so it’s not a big deal - do you agree with that?

Has anyone claimed there’s a total arms embargo?

 

[shmmeee]

Sick Boy doesn’t trust the government but does trust people entirely dedicated to activism. Sick Boy might want to have not missed KS3 ICT at school.

 

[Sick Boy]

Sick Boy doesn’t trust the government but does trust people entirely dedicated to activism. Sick Boy might want to have not missed KS3 ICT at school.

I’m just highlighting your ongoing hypocrisy.

 

[Sick Boy]

Has anyone claimed there’s a total arms embargo?

You might want to have not missed KS2 reading comprehension.

 

[shmmeee]

You might want to have not missed KS2 reading comprehension.

Says the guy who posted an article that doesn’t have any proof of embargo breaking as proof of embargo breaking. Because he really want it to be true.

 

[shmmeee]

I’m just highlighting your ongoing hypocrisy.

What hypocrisy is that? That I both think what’s happening in Gaza is a disgrace and that protesting the Labour government in the UK about it is pointless and purely performative? Not only that it’s actively counterproductive as the alternative to a Labour government is on record as being 100% pro genocide and a record of outright racism against brown people.

I actually think it’s pretty fucking sick to spend your days claiming to be left wing while making up nonsense about the only left wing government we’re likely to get because it’s some game to you sat in Italy.

 

[Sick Boy]

What hypocrisy is that? That I both think what’s happening in Gaza is a disgrace and that protesting the Labour government in the UK about it is pointless and purely performative? Not only that it’s actively counterproductive as the alternative to a Labour government is on record as being 100% pro genocide and a record of outright racism against brown people.

I actually think it’s pretty fucking sick to spend your days claiming to be left wing while making up nonsense about the only left wing government we’re likely to get because it’s some game to you sat in Italy.

It’s not a left wing government ffs and you’re most certainly not left wing either. Where I’m based has no relevance- if it does then maybe you should stick to the local news in Bedworth.

 

[skybluetony176]

We should be treating Israel like we’re treating Russia at the moment. Under Netanyahu they’re at least as bad, maybe worse. They’re clearly ethnic cleanliness, they clearly want to force the Palestinians out of Gaza to take the land whereas Putin wants to occupy Ukraine and rule over the existing population.

Said it already. Starmer needs to take a stance or this will be his gulf war and he’ll be left with the same animosity that Blair gets as the UK population wakes up to the reality and extent of what we’ve been involved in. You can’t fool all the people all of the time when the facts aren’t on your side.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What hypocrisy is that? That I both think what’s happening in Gaza is a disgrace and that protesting the Labour government in the UK about it is pointless and purely performative? Not only that it’s actively counterproductive as the alternative to a Labour government is on record as being 100% pro genocide and a record of outright racism against brown people.

I actually think it’s pretty fucking sick to spend your days claiming to be left wing while making up nonsense about the only left wing government we’re likely to get because it’s some game to you sat in Italy.

Nah, being on the right side of history matters. In the more distant future people will not care about alliances, they will look at what Israel did and see that we and others couldn’t be arsed to even call it a war crime, much less put up a fuss.

 

[PVA]

Said it already. Starmer needs to take a stance or this will be his gulf war and he’ll be left with the same animosity that Blair gets as the UK population wakes up to the reality and extent of what we’ve been involved in. You can’t fool all the people all of the time when the facts aren’t on your side.

I'm not sure about this.

Iraq was different because British soldiers were dying for it.

The majority of the UK population doesn't really care about Gaza, sadly. It's very much a side issue to most and in 5, 10, 20 years or whatever I don't think it'll be something the average Brit cares about or even remembers. (and I'm not saying that's right, before the usual suspects jump all over me).

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm not sure about this.

Iraq was different because British soldiers were dying for it.

The majority of the UK population doesn't really care about Gaza, sadly. It's very much a side issue to most and in 5, 10, 20 years or whatever I don't think it'll be something the average Brit cares about or even remembers. (and I'm not saying that's right, before the usual suspects jump all over me).

Depends how many people Israel end up killing, but I think your gut feeling is right.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm not sure about this.

Iraq was different because British soldiers were dying for it.

The majority of the UK population doesn't really care about Gaza, sadly. It's very much a side issue to most and in 5, 10, 20 years or whatever I don't think it'll be something the average Brit cares about or even remembers. (and I'm not saying that's right, before the usual suspects jump all over me).

I never said that the details were the same, I’m pointing out that continued support by the British government by way of arms supply will reflect negatively upon the sitting PM who allowed that to continue. The longer the invasion of Gaza is allowed to continue the more facts of atrocities by Israel will come out that will reflect Israel in a worse and worse light the more public perception will change and it is changing.

You’re also wrong about the majority of the British population not caring about Gaza. Any polling on the subject shows we do regardless of how the question is posed from are Israel committing genocide, should we have a full arms embargo on Israel to just outright opposing the war. Which is exactly why Starmer will be viewed as a war criminal by generations if he continues to allow us to support Israel with any form of military assistance.

It’s not too late for Starmer, diplomacy has failed, Israel isn’t listening to it’s traditional allies especially in Europe where opinions are already far stronger against Isreal than they are here and governments have had to take far more serious decisions regarding arms sales. They’re already choosing to be on the right side of history,Starmer has a very limited period to catch up if he chooses. If he doesn’t it will be a very big nail in his political coffin and reflect upon public opinion of him for life same as it has with Blair. And let’s not forget that Blair’s backdrop is the longest period of growth in UK history, he successfully negotiated peace in Northern Ireland etc, GW2 aside he was largely a successful PM who achieved some positive milestones, certainly by modern standards. Starmer is unlikely to ever have that backdrop simply because the world is in such a mess right now which is not an ingredient to forging success, he’s in a damage limitation government at best and is messing that up on the home front on a regular basis (although no where near as bad as the previous government).

 

[Nick]

I never said that the details were the same, I’m pointing out that continued support by the British government by way of arms supply will reflect negatively upon the sitting PM who allowed that to continue. The longer the invasion of Gaza is allowed to continue the more facts of atrocities by Israel will come out that will reflect Israel in a worse and worse light the more public perception will change and it is changing.

You’re also wrong about the majority of the British population not caring about Gaza. Any polling on the subject shows we do regardless of how the question is posed from are Israel committing genocide, should we have a full arms embargo on Israel to just outright opposing the war. Which is exactly why Starmer will be viewed as a war criminal by generations if he continues to allow us to support Israel with any form of military assistance.

It’s not too late for Starmer, diplomacy has failed, Israel isn’t listening to it’s traditional allies especially in Europe where opinions are already far stronger against Isreal than they are here and governments have had to take far more serious decisions regarding arms sales. They’re already choosing to be on the right side of history,Starmer has a very limited period to catch up if he chooses. If he doesn’t it will be a very big nail in his political coffin and reflect upon public opinion of him for life same as it has with Blair. And let’s not forget that Blair’s backdrop is the longest period of growth in UK history, he successfully negotiated peace in Northern Ireland etc, GW2 aside he was largely a successful PM who achieved some positive milestones, certainly by modern standards. Starmer is unlikely to ever have that backdrop simply because the world is in such a mess right now which is not an ingredient to forging success, he’s in a damage limitation government at best and is messing that up on the home front on a regular basis (although no where near as bad as the previous government).

Polling where?

 

[chiefdave]

You’re also wrong about the majority of the British population not caring about Gaza. Any polling on the subject shows we do regardless of how the question is posed from are Israel committing genocide, should we have a full arms embargo on Israel to just outright opposing the war. Which is exactly why Starmer will be viewed as a war criminal by generations if he continues to allow us to support Israel with any form of military assistance.

If you're looking at polling numbers on this you need to look at the responses from people who voted Labour in the last election and they are not good for Starmer. The next question should be how will that impact on people's willingness to vote labour at the next election.

 

[chiefdave]

Polling where?

There's some on YouGov, very quick google would seem to suggest most polls showing roughly the same results and support for Israel rapidly decreasing