Do you want to discuss boring politics? (125 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Seems to be the mantra for executives and shareholders.

As you said "no matter what they earn, it will never be enough."

To use a more local example, the CEO of Birmingham International got a 50% pay increase, yet I don't recall much comment on 'inflation busting pay increases'

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree. But when one doesn't even get half of the others it shows something is wrong.

I agree

 

[Nick]

To use a more local example, the CEO of Birmingham International got a 50% pay increase, yet I don't recall much comment on 'inflation busting pay increases'

Post it on here and you will get the same response from me.

If people are self made entrepreneurs and do well then fair play.

If it's a CEO because their dad knows somebody, get to fuck.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Post it on here and you will get the same response from me.

If people are self made entrepreneurs and do well then fair play.

If it's a CEO because their dad knows somebody, get to fuck.

It wasn’t even the biggest increase, Heathrow’s got 85%. The point is, the rhetoric on this is completely different to when teachers and nurses wanted 5-10% after nearly 15 years of frozen pay.

These aren’t professions that particularly want to go on strike and we have extensive anti strike laws that make it very difficult to get ballots to pass. And yet both did, doctors too. They aren’t just doing it for a laugh.

 

[Lamps]

If I were being cynical, I'd say that privately the union can see what's on the horizon and is trying to get its members as much as it can before the inevitable. Though to reiterate, they should be well paid and they should have working conditions that don't ultimately put passengers at risk from incompetent or incapacitated drivers.

But on the other hand paying on average over 1k a week will bring automation along even quicker.

The lower paid deserve more money. It's more about money to the well paid than what people deserve. I have a niece who enjoyed looking after people in need. But she left the career she enjoyed which included wiping people's arses, to work at a well known coffee shop as it paid more money. Somethings not quite right here.

 

[Nick]

But on the other hand paying on average over 1k a week will bring automation along even quicker.

The lower paid deserve more money. It's more about money to the well paid than what people deserve. I have a niece who enjoyed looking after people in need. But she left the career she enjoyed which included wiping people's arses, to work at a well known coffee shop as it paid more money. Somethings not quite right here.

To be fair I don't think he is saying they don't.

The thing with so many of the private care companies, the type where they send carers out. They will be charging a small fortune per visit while paying as little as possible to the actual carers.

The care company owners make an absolute fortune.

 

[SBT]

Post it on here and you will get the same response from me.

If people are self made entrepreneurs and do well then fair play.

I wouldn’t say the CEO of Birmingham Airport really falls into this category, it’s not like he started out with an airstrip and a dream.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

His wife was Boris Johnson's office manager.

No further comment.

Jake Berry…

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To be fair I don't think he is saying they don't.

The thing with so many of the private care companies, the type where they send carers out. They will be charging a small fortune per visit while paying as little as possible to the actual carers.

The care company owners make an absolute fortune.

Then guess why we end up struggling to get British people to do the work.

 

[Nick]

I wouldn’t say the CEO of Birmingham Airport really falls into this category, it’s not like he started out with an airstrip and a dream.

He probably falls into the category that you conveniently cut out of my quote.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He probably falls into the category that you conveniently cut out of my quote.

No, his pay increase got approved by people who serve on local councils. They justified it by saying they need the best people to do the job.

But don’t apply that same reasoning to people lower down the organisation.

 

[SBT]

He probably falls into the category that you conveniently cut out of my quote.

Well a) the joke wouldn’t have worked as well and b) I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest he really is an airport nepo baby is there?

 

[chiefdave]

Heathrow’s got 85%

well at least they've had a successful year and didn't have to shut down for days because they'd ignored warnings to sort out the power supply to the airport

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

well at least they've had a successful year and didn't have to shut down for days because they'd ignored warnings to sort out the power supply to the airport

The general problem seems to be we’ve accepted that certain important jobs are just badly paid and a bit shit so that’s how it should remain.

I met someone who was proud of his wife earning £250k at Facebook for ‘telling the managers how to manage’. Bullshit jobs getting obscene money is the other problem in this country.

 

[Lamps]

To be fair I don't think he is saying they don't.

The thing with so many of the private care companies, the type where they send carers out. They will be charging a small fortune per visit while paying as little as possible to the actual carers.

The care company owners make an absolute fortune.

I didn't day him. I didn't say anyone. What i said was how can someone who does such a difficult job that most of us wouldn't consider get paid less than someone who tries to upsell from a cup of coffee to someone who does a job most of us couldn't handle doing.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Then guess why we end up struggling to get British people to do the work.

For minimum wage work, you can literally get more living on benefits after tax. A minimum wage worker would be on about £22.5k after tax whereas UC with housing benefit and PIP would be £25k. Credit: Centre for Social Justice (CSJ). Faced with that decision, who wouldn’t live off the state?

One of the reasons we’re seeing the benefit bill raise rapidly for ‘foreign born’ claimants is because you can trade 5 years of low income work and get access to a reasonably generous welfare state for life.

Even Macron said the UK was like ‘El Dorado’ for illegal migrants on his state visit, despite France’s own problems.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

For minimum wage work, you can literally get more living on benefits after tax. A minimum wage worker would be on about £22.5k after tax whereas UC with housing benefit and PIP would be £25k. Credit: Centre for Social Justice (CSJ). Faced with that decision, who wouldn’t live off the state?

One of the reasons we’re seeing the benefit bill raise rapidly for ‘foreign born’ claimants is because you can trade 5 years of low income work and get access to a reasonably generous welfare state for life.

Even Macron said the UK was like ‘El Dorado’ for illegal migrants on his state visit, despite France’s own problems.

Two immediate thoughts in response to this. Nah, three.

1. So we should raise the NMW? Good, agreed.

2. The biggest chunk of the benefit bill is on the state pension. That’s where I’d aim my attention for a solution because the situation is only going to get worse the longer we avoid finding one.

3. Macron probably would say that to gloss over France’s own incompetence in trying to prevent the crossings. At least Starmer is trying to engage with him as it’s the only way that problem gets solved.

 

[SBT]

One of the reasons we’re seeing the benefit bill raise rapidly for ‘foreign born’ claimants is because you can trade 5 years of low income work and get access to a reasonably generous welfare state for life.

Bloody immigrants, coming over here, spending literally years working jobs that other people don’t want to do, expecting some kind of social safety net in return.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bloody immigrants, coming over here, spending literally years working jobs that other people don’t want to do, expecting some kind of social safety net in return.

Now imagine an immigrant fireman asking for a 60% pay rise

 

[Nick]

No, his pay increase got approved by people who serve on local councils. They justified it by saying they need the best people to do the job.

But don’t apply that same reasoning to people lower down the organisation.

The same as when banks do terrible, need bailing out but they still get their bonuses?

It's a different world. So much of that becomes who you know rather than how you perform. (In general)

 

[Lamps]

Now imagine an immigrant fireman asking for a 60% pay rise

Personally it still wouldn't be enough for those who risk their lives to protect us.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No, his pay increase got approved by people who serve on local councils. They justified it by saying they need the best people to do the job.

But don’t apply that same reasoning to people lower down the organisation.

It’s all well and good focusing on the pay packet at the end of the month but the public sector pensions are a lot more generous than the private sector, frankly.

So a sensible reform would be to reduce the pension contributions and put more money directly into the staff’s pocket.

I actually liked Reform’s policy of exempting frontline NHS staff from the basic rate of tax. It’s not a pay raise per se, but drastically boosts the take home pay. It’s out of the box thinking that could perhaps be applied to other frontline services.

If the answer to every question is ‘pay them more’ and ‘invest more into ‘x’’, the country will quickly bankrupt itself.

Without any meaningful NHS reforms, there will be fundamental questions over the NHS’ viability in the coming years.

 

[SBT]

Now imagine an immigrant fireman asking for a 60% pay rise

What if that immigrant’s name was Tommy Robinson?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s all well and good focusing on the pay packet at the end of the month but the public sector pensions are a lot more generous than the private sector, frankly.

So a sensible reform would be to reduce the pension contributions and put more money directly into the staff’s pocket.

I actually liked Reform’s policy of exempting frontline NHS staff from the basic rate of tax. It’s not a pay raise per se, but drastically boosts the take home pay. It’s out of the box thinking that could perhaps be applied to other frontline services.

If the answer to every question is ‘pay them more’ and ‘invest more into ‘x’’, the country will quickly bankrupt itself.

Without any meaningful NHS reforms, there will be fundamental questions over the NHS’ viability in the coming years.

Except that pension is part of your overall remuneration. Salaries in the public sector are worse than comparable ones in the private, but the stronger pensions for now maintain some sort of parity.

The civil service does actually allow people to either stay with the standard scheme or to switch more into what you describe.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The same as when banks do terrible, need bailing out but they still get their bonuses?

It's a different world. So much of that becomes who you know rather than how you perform. (In general)

I agree. Perhaps then it’s those people who are the real leeches and chancers, not doctors and nurses wanting a pay rise for a job the country kind of relies upon.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Two immediate thoughts in response to this. Nah, three.

1. So we should raise the NMW? Good, agreed.

2. The biggest chunk of the benefit bill is on the state pension. That’s where I’d aim my attention for a solution because the situation is only going to get worse the longer we avoid finding one.

3. Macron probably would say that to gloss over France’s own incompetence in trying to prevent the crossings. At least Starmer is trying to engage with him as it’s the only way that problem gets solved.

1. It will increase inflation as the costs to businesses will increase costs associated with manufacturing/providing services. It’s not necessarily good for workers either if business cut staff/hours and increase automation. Just as the employer NI hike is doing.

Most people on minimum wages are not on salaries but on hourly rates, therefore, cuts to hours is a pay cut even if the hourly rate is better.

2. The triple-lock is unaffordable and is something Labour really should’ve bitten the bullet on. But they chose a rather symbolic, pointless cut to WFA.

3. Whilst that is true. There’s something fundamentally true about this because why do so many make the crossing when they can go anywhere else in Europe?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Except that pension is part of your overall remuneration. Salaries in the public sector are worse than comparable ones in the private, but the stronger pensions for now maintain some sort of parity.

The civil service does actually allow people to either stay with the standard scheme or to switch more into what you describe.

You can’t have your cake and eat it.

Either accept the salary is going to be lower until retirement or be willing to potentially opt out of that to get paid more month-to-month.

The way you and others talk about this is as if there is an endless money tree. How does this all get paid for?

Government debt interest already costs the treasury £100+ bn every year. The total bill for public sector pension liabilities is £2.6 trillion (direct from the treasury) and growing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You can’t have your cake and eat it.

Either accept the salary is going to be lower until retirement or be willing to potentially opt out of that to get paid more month-to-month.

The way you and others talk about this is as if there is an endless money tree. How does this all get paid for?

Government debt interest already costs the treasury £100+ bn every year. The total bill for public sector pension liabilities is £2.6 trillion (direct from the treasury) and growing.

I want to join the CS in part because I value having a very good pension while the salaries are still fine with me. I wouldn’t be complaining about that.

I also literally just told you, in the post you quoted, that giving up some of that contribution in exchange for more immediate payment, is an option. Personally I wouldn’t accept it, but it’s an option for people.

 

[shmmeee]

The general problem seems to be we’ve accepted that certain important jobs are just badly paid and a bit shit so that’s how it should remain.

I met someone who was proud of his wife earning £250k at Facebook for ‘telling the managers how to manage’. Bullshit jobs getting obscene money is the other problem in this country.

Hot take £250k isn’t obscene money. £30k as an average is.

 

[shmmeee]

Loving the idea it’s too expensive to give Drs pay rises to keep them so well just keep hiring locums at three times the cost.

The market doesn’t give a fuck about your made up fiscal rules. You pay the going rate or you pay in temp staff.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hot take £250k isn’t obscene money. £30k as an average is.

I currently receive less than the minimum wage to do research. That seems a little obscene also but what do I know.

 

[Marty]

I currently receive less than the minimum wage to do research. That seems a little obscene also but what do I know.

So why do it then?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So why do it then?

Ultimately, to better myself and get a career I want for the foreseeable afterwards. Though for a country that apparently cares about science, it’s pathetic.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Loving the idea it’s too expensive to give Drs pay rises to keep them so well just keep hiring locums at three times the cost.

The market doesn’t give a fuck about your made up fiscal rules. You pay the going rate or you pay in temp staff.

So doctors strike and then the nhs has to pay exhorbitante amounts for agency/locum staff to cover strikers (some of those that probably support strikes at other times), so people can have their urgent procedures and people don’t die….and more money drains from the nhs.

Great model if you want the nhs to survive.

If you pay the resident doctors their extra 25%, after getting 22% and offered 5.6% this year, what do you think happens with every other public sector union ?

ps blame the BMA and poor organisation/running of the nhs for the disgusting prices agency staff charge. I’m totally against it but it’s not the publics fault and we’re the ones who suffer from the strikes. If the nhs can’t run properly with all the extra cash being thrown at it, it will be done in its current form.

 

[Marty]

Bloody immigrants, coming over here, spending literally years working jobs that other people don’t want to do, expecting some kind of social safety net in return.

Sounds like an utterly awful trade off. From their perspective 5 years of work for a lifetime of leaching looks incredible.