Do you want to discuss boring politics? (47 Viewers)

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PVA

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Let's spin it ...

How shocking must you be to lose to that

What do people think about Labour and it's MPs ... there's you're answer , I know this because I work with similar minded people
Click to expand...

You keep spinning it to answer the question that isn't being asked.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
You keep spinning it. Because you can't answer the question.
Click to expand...

it's been answered...many times .

This is the jist for the final time

The people who used to vote Labour , now think they are a bunch of wankers .
They'd rather vote for the tories than see you and your MPs in charge .

You told brexiteers they were wrong
Your MPs spend time engaging in social politics on social media (bend that knee keir )
You don't like the working class you call racist , thick and privileged
You involve yourself in activism and social politics that most people reject and couldn't give 2 shits about
You're the party for the well educated middle class yuppies

And the people said fuck you

And now you keep losing .

People don't like you very much anymore

Simple really when you think about it
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
it's been answered...many times .

This is the jist for the final time

The people who used to vote Labour , now think they are a bunch of wankers .
They'd rather vote for the tories than see you and your MPs in charge .

You told brexiteers they were wrong
Your MPs spend time engaging in social politics on social media (bend that knee keir )
You don't like the working class you call racist , thick and privileged
You involve yourself in activism and social politics that most people reject and couldn't give 2 shits about
You're the party for the well educated middle class yuppies

And the people said fuck you

And now you keep losing .

People don't like you very much anymore

Simple really when you think about it
Click to expand...
Brexiteers are wrong. It’s delivered literally nothing it promised and it’s took a pandemic that’s killed over 3 million people for the government to have something to latch onto to spin into a bonus.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Brexiteers are wrong. It’s delivered literally nothing it promised and it’s took a pandemic that’s killed over 3 million people for the government to have something to latch onto to spin into a bonus.
Click to expand...

Enjoy the tories ..basically forever .

An attitude shift is massively needed somewhere
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Enjoy the tories ..basically forever .

An attitude shift is massively needed somewhere
Click to expand...
Correct. An acknowledgment that Brexit has shit on the country would be a good starting point. The only thing that the government can talk about is Covid. Saw it again on question time last night. First mention of fishermen, change the subject to Covid.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Listen I'm the thick one , but I work with the very people Labour have lost , in what you would call "the dead end jobs " people talk about politics and il tell you for the final time .... people really do not like Labour, some people that always voted Labour genuinely hate them .


Something has got to change otherwise they are never getting back in power
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Correct. An acknowledgment that Brexit has shit on the country would be a good starting point. The only thing that the government can talk about is Covid. Saw it again on question time last night. First mention of fishermen, change the subject to Covid.
Click to expand...

I tried
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
After 10 years of national tory government austerity that meant hartleoool was a shut hole they voted for the mp who represented those policies. Please explain the logic!
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Hartlepool - the worst possible Lab candidate they could have picked for that seat. Staunch remainer in a 70% leave area. At the very least pick someone who is from the constituency, had no association with the PV debacle and then at least it might have been a fight.
 
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
policyexchange.org.uk

Hartlepool is a Wake-Up Call for my Party - Policy Exchange

The election of a Conservative MP in Hartlepool for the first time in the constituency’s modern history is yet another wake-up call for my party. Peter Mandelson once enjoyed a 17,500 majority here. Now the Tories are deep into what was once safe Labour territory – the industrial heartlands of...
policyexchange.org.uk policyexchange.org.uk
 
TomRad85

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Cheers mate , you get what I'm saying though don't you .
I'm not pissing in the wind am I
Click to expand...
Nah you are spot on, some people just don't want to hear it as they don't perceive many of those things to be a problem.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
TomRad85 said:
Nah you are spot on, some people just don't want to hear it as they don't perceive many of those things to be a problem.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Because they think the same way as the people who I'm taking a swipe at basically
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Listen I'm the thick one , but I work with the very people Labour have lost , in what you would call "the dead end jobs " people talk about politics and il tell you for the final time .... people really do not like Labour, some people that always voted Labour genuinely hate them .


Something has got to change otherwise they are never getting back in power
Click to expand...
So should Labour or any other party pretend that Brexit is delivering sunlit uplands to win back votes?
At some points reality will bite, best thing all the other parties can do is let the Tories own Brexit and fall on that sword. Brexit should be the Tories Gulf War and Boris should be held in the same contempt as Blair.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So should Labour or any other party pretend that Brexit is delivering sunlit uplands to win back votes?
At some points reality will bite, best thing all the other parties can do is let the Tories own Brexit and fall on that sword. Brexit should be Labour’s Gulf War and Boris should be held in the same contempt as Blair.
Click to expand...

At some point I'm kind of hoping reality will dawn on people like you , and Labour ,Tony not the other way around
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
it's been answered...many times .

This is the jist for the final time

The people who used to vote Labour , now think they are a bunch of wankers .
They'd rather vote for the tories than see you and your MPs in charge .

You told brexiteers they were wrong
Your MPs spend time engaging in social politics on social media (bend that knee keir )
You don't like the working class you call racist , thick and privileged
You involve yourself in activism and social politics that most people reject and couldn't give 2 shits about
You're the party for the well educated middle class yuppies

And the people said fuck you

And now you keep losing .

People don't like you very much anymore

Simple really when you think about it
Click to expand...
Ok that’s ok and I understand it

the tories told brexxiteers they were right by lying about what was possible and how good it would be - tick to them but for how long
For every insult you throw at what Labour think of the working class you can double and triple what gove johnson Rhees mogg et all say and think of them
Since when did people not care about society and education and opportunity and families

all you’ve said against Labour can be thrown hard at the tory party. Are the double standards because it’s expected from tories and there feels like some kind of huge let down when Labour do what the tories have done for years.

I’ll go back to my middle class educated life where I care how people are treated and believe in equality of opportunity for all and that society has a responsible to the young and underprivileged. Ffs
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
Ok that’s ok and I understand it

the tories told brexxiteers they were right by lying about what was possible and how good it would be - tick to them but for how long
For every insult you throw at what Labour think of the working class you can double and triple what gove johnson Rhees mogg et all say and think of them
Since when did people not care about society and education and opportunity and families

all you’ve said against Labour can be thrown hard at the tory party. Are the double standards because it’s expected from tories and there feels like some kind of huge let down when Labour do what the tories have done for years.

I’ll go back to my middle class educated life where I care how people are treated and believe in equality of opportunity for all and that society has a responsible to the young and underprivileged. Ffs
Click to expand...

Listen, it's not me that's going to be disappointed every few years when the results roll in , I already know what's coming .

Enjoy mate .. dont forget when this school dropout told you what would happen


The polls are wrong - David o Day 2021
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
Ok that’s ok and I understand it

the tories told brexxiteers they were right by lying about what was possible and how good it would be - tick to them but for how long
For every insult you throw at what Labour think of the working class you can double and triple what gove johnson Rhees mogg et all say and think of them
Since when did people not care about society and education and opportunity and families

all you’ve said against Labour can be thrown hard at the tory party. Are the double standards because it’s expected from tories and there feels like some kind of huge let down when Labour do what the tories have done for years.

I’ll go back to my middle class educated life where I care how people are treated and believe in equality of opportunity for all and that society has a responsible to the young and underprivileged. Ffs
Click to expand...
Rees-Mogg went on QT and literally said that Brexit will deliver shoes on feet and got a round of applause for it. Pure Dickensian bollocks. Oooo, shoes on feet guv, cheers guv, tips cap.
I have literally never seen anyone in modern politics show such disdain for the man in the street and get a round of applause from the man in the street as a show of appreciation. I’m reminded of the life of Brian. Spat on, right little jailers pet aren’t we.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
The election of a Conservative MP in Hartlepool for the first time in the constituency’s modern history is yet another wake-up call for my party. Peter Mandelson once enjoyed a 17,500 majority here. Now the Tories are deep into what was once safe Labour territory – the industrial heartlands of the North – with a 7,000 majority of their own. In the West Midlands it looks again like Labour will lose out on the mayoral race and more. What has gone wrong for the Labour Party and our wider movement?

My view is simple: in the past decade, Labour has lost touch with ordinary British people. A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party. They mean well, of course, but their politics – obsessed with identity, division and even tech utopianism – have more in common with those of Californian high society than the kind of people who voted in Hartlepool yesterday.

The loudest voices in the Labour movement over the past year in particular have focused more on pulling down Churchill’s statue than they have on helping people pull themselves up in the world. No wonder it is doing better among rich urban liberals and young university graduates than it is amongst the most important part of its traditional electoral coalition, the working-class.

A bit of superficial flag-waving – reinforced by urgent memos from party HQ – isn’t going to fix that. We have to recognise that the patriotism of these voters runs much deeper than that. They are more alert to rebranding exercises than spin doctors give them credit for. Their patriotism is about historic pride in their places, the heritage and stories of those places, and the Britishness and Englishness of the people and families that call them home.

I think of my own constituency in Birmingham and the city’s proud car-making history. There is a loss here that inspires the small-c conservatism of the working class: we know something has vanished and it hasn’t been replaced. This is what Jon Cruddas, speaking to Lisa Nandy this week at a Policy Exchange event, meant when he talked about the “dignity of labour” and how Labour must not lose sight of its historic roots.

As he puts it: “Parties are not just machines to chase votes and demographic flows. They are built out of ideas, traditions and memories and speak on behalf of certain communities. You cannot just jettison that.”

But Labour makes a mistake if it thinks all this is about nostalgia and looking backwards. It is also about the present. People on the ground, far from the elite and academic discussions in the capital, want the basic things done right. They want job security themselves – not zero hours contracts – and for their children and grandchildren to have a bright future. They want an NHS that works and doesn’t leave them waiting months for an operation or weeks for an appointment with their GP. They want investment in infrastructure, and in basic transport such as cleaner and greener buses. Most of all, they want to be listened to. I despaired when our local council ignored a 15,000-strong petition for a new flyover. On occasion, that we-know-best attitude can be found on a local level, too.

There is a need for humility, to begin with. If Labour is to win back seats like Hartlepool it will have to change the minds of people who yesterday chose to vote Conservative. Is there a danger that our party, in its opposition and confusion over Brexit, has veered towards an anti-British attitude? I certainly worry that some of our previous supporters will see it that way.

We fix that by supporting jobs in these so-called left behind areas – with changes to public procurement, for example, that bring jobs back to the UK and support manufacturing jobs, including those in high tech, advanced manufacturing.

Campaigning in Hartlepool over the past month, Peter Mandelson was told by one former Labour voter on the doorstep: “Sort yourselves out. You picked the wrong brother and you ended up with Corbyn so that’s goodbye to you. When you’ve sorted yourselves out, we’ll look at you again.”

It would be easy for Labour MPs and members to whinge about the unfairness of this summary of the past decade. But we must recognise that is how we are seen by so many people in the places that were once unfailingly loyal to us – as a party that has lost its way. It is only by engagement on a local level, meeting eye to eye with voters and hearing their concerns, that we will fix that. I will be doing so not from the Labour front bench, but walking the streets of my constituency as a backbencher and talking face to face with the people I have the honour to serve.


Khalid Mahmood
Click to expand...

Khalid knows , Labour needs more khalids
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
it's been answered...many times .

This is the jist for the final time

The people who used to vote Labour , now think they are a bunch of wankers .
They'd rather vote for the tories than see you and your MPs in charge .

You told brexiteers they were wrong
Your MPs spend time engaging in social politics on social media (bend that knee keir )
You don't like the working class you call racist , thick and privileged
You involve yourself in activism and social politics that most people reject and couldn't give 2 shits about
You're the party for the well educated middle class yuppies

And the people said fuck you

And now you keep losing .

People don't like you very much anymore

Simple really when you think about it
Click to expand...

Still haven't answered the fucking question. Fuck me. Unbelievable.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Mate , at this point I'm going to say we are done on this .

It's becoming absolutely ridiculous
Click to expand...

Just answer the question and we'll be done. It's that simple.

Once again you've resorted to 'but Labour'.

Let's try one last time.

Without mentioning the word Labour, what is so appealing about the Tories?
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
The election of a Conservative MP in Hartlepool for the first time in the constituency’s modern history is yet another wake-up call for my party. Peter Mandelson once enjoyed a 17,500 majority here. Now the Tories are deep into what was once safe Labour territory – the industrial heartlands of the North – with a 7,000 majority of their own. In the West Midlands it looks again like Labour will lose out on the mayoral race and more. What has gone wrong for the Labour Party and our wider movement?

My view is simple: in the past decade, Labour has lost touch with ordinary British people. A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party. They mean well, of course, but their politics – obsessed with identity, division and even tech utopianism – have more in common with those of Californian high society than the kind of people who voted in Hartlepool yesterday.

The loudest voices in the Labour movement over the past year in particular have focused more on pulling down Churchill’s statue than they have on helping people pull themselves up in the world. No wonder it is doing better among rich urban liberals and young university graduates than it is amongst the most important part of its traditional electoral coalition, the working-class.

A bit of superficial flag-waving – reinforced by urgent memos from party HQ – isn’t going to fix that. We have to recognise that the patriotism of these voters runs much deeper than that. They are more alert to rebranding exercises than spin doctors give them credit for. Their patriotism is about historic pride in their places, the heritage and stories of those places, and the Britishness and Englishness of the people and families that call them home.

I think of my own constituency in Birmingham and the city’s proud car-making history. There is a loss here that inspires the small-c conservatism of the working class: we know something has vanished and it hasn’t been replaced. This is what Jon Cruddas, speaking to Lisa Nandy this week at a Policy Exchange event, meant when he talked about the “dignity of labour” and how Labour must not lose sight of its historic roots.

As he puts it: “Parties are not just machines to chase votes and demographic flows. They are built out of ideas, traditions and memories and speak on behalf of certain communities. You cannot just jettison that.”

But Labour makes a mistake if it thinks all this is about nostalgia and looking backwards. It is also about the present. People on the ground, far from the elite and academic discussions in the capital, want the basic things done right. They want job security themselves – not zero hours contracts – and for their children and grandchildren to have a bright future. They want an NHS that works and doesn’t leave them waiting months for an operation or weeks for an appointment with their GP. They want investment in infrastructure, and in basic transport such as cleaner and greener buses. Most of all, they want to be listened to. I despaired when our local council ignored a 15,000-strong petition for a new flyover. On occasion, that we-know-best attitude can be found on a local level, too.

There is a need for humility, to begin with. If Labour is to win back seats like Hartlepool it will have to change the minds of people who yesterday chose to vote Conservative. Is there a danger that our party, in its opposition and confusion over Brexit, has veered towards an anti-British attitude? I certainly worry that some of our previous supporters will see it that way.

We fix that by supporting jobs in these so-called left behind areas – with changes to public procurement, for example, that bring jobs back to the UK and support manufacturing jobs, including those in high tech, advanced manufacturing.

Campaigning in Hartlepool over the past month, Peter Mandelson was told by one former Labour voter on the doorstep: “Sort yourselves out. You picked the wrong brother and you ended up with Corbyn so that’s goodbye to you. When you’ve sorted yourselves out, we’ll look at you again.”

It would be easy for Labour MPs and members to whinge about the unfairness of this summary of the past decade. But we must recognise that is how we are seen by so many people in the places that were once unfailingly loyal to us – as a party that has lost its way. It is only by engagement on a local level, meeting eye to eye with voters and hearing their concerns, that we will fix that. I will be doing so not from the Labour front bench, but walking the streets of my constituency as a backbencher and talking face to face with the people I have the honour to serve.


Khalid Mahmood
Click to expand...

A load of utter horseshit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
There is definitely a culture war going on , people are driving out the people on the wrong side of it.

That's something that's definitely happening
Click to expand...

Yes we've had general consensus on

People don't really care about policies or manifesto commitments
Labour don't 'seem like they like' working people, the Tories do
The way a politician comes across matters more than their record or ideology

So it just boils down to a personality contest so the party offering policies people want is getting trounced by one that takes police off the streets, gives tax breaks and contracts to its mates and that let 130,000 people die in the pandemic. Oh, and that is letting people go bankrupt over flammable cladding that should never have been permitted in the first place.

I'm happy to get called angry for being angry that things like this are happening and people seem to be rejoicing at it because of culture war bullshit
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Just answer the question and we'll be done. It's that simple.

Once again you've resorted to 'but Labour'.

Let's try one last time.

Without mentioning the word Labour, what is so appealing about the Tories?
Click to expand...

They aren't Labour, that's the answer
 
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