The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (58 Viewers)

[djr8369]

Typical answer of someone who can't face simple facts.

What simple fact can’t I accept?

I literally accept the result of the poll Grendel quotes, that’s implicit in my reply. Just don’t understand why he sent it but it turned out he’d drawn a conclusion from my message that I didn’t intend.


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[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

No. It has a defined meaning. You lot are as bad as the post modernist SJWs. Inventing your own reality cos you don’t like everyone else’s. Facts don’t care about your opinion.

And eveyone else's reality is what then ? Remain ?
Who are "You lot" ?
You are a bit vague to be honest.

 

[shmmeee]

Who are "You lot" ?

Anyone who ignores reality because it conflicts with their feelings on Brexit.

Typical answer of someone who can't face simple facts.

Fact is it’s one poll. We call that an outlier until other polls reflect the trend.

 

[Grendel]

Anyone who ignores reality because it conflicts with their feelings on Brexit.



Fact is it’s one poll. We call that an outlier until other polls reflect the trend.

well other than the fact it had 25,000 respondents which is around 15 times more than most other polls including the nonsense one you keep posting

 

[shmmeee]

That was an odd policy. You could understand the republicans doing it but a party in the U.K.?


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Actually quite popular TBF. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/18/18270763/uk-porn-block-ban-start-date-april-survey-unaware

But then most people don’t have the technical knowledge to understand quite how horrific a law it was.

 

[Grendel]

To be honest looking at that poll Johnson must surely be tempted to allow the deal to go to a referendum

politically it would fine a big headache to labour and we’d have the farcical spectacle of Jo Swinson voting for it

 

[djr8369]

Actually quite popular TBF. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/18/18270763/uk-porn-block-ban-start-date-april-survey-unaware

But then most people don’t have the technical knowledge to understand quite how horrific a law it was.

Genuinely surprising but I guess most people are thinking about their kids and not really considering it from a rights, ethics or practical perspective.


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[shmmeee]

Genuinely surprising but I guess most people are thinking about their kids and not really considering it from a rights, ethics or practical perspective.


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Devils in the detail. If you say “should we stop under 18s accessing porn?” Obviously the answer is yes.

If you ask “Should we store you name and address against your entire porn history and have this database run by the owners of PornHub” I imagine support drops somewhat.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Anyone who ignores reality because it conflicts with their feelings on Brexit.
.

That's you then .

 

[Sick Boy]

Some will. But it won't happen immediately and it will be reliant on economic conditions - it will need a buoyant economy for many to do it and it's unlikely we'll see that for a number of years post-Brexit. So I reckon you're looking at about 10 years before they're making tentative enquiries then another 5-10 before we start to see any jobs etc in the form of construction of new plant. But that's still optimistic even compared to JRM.

My other big hope for post-brexit was a move towards long term sustainable green energy and technology. But seeing as who's in charge at the moment I'd say it's far more likely to be a move in the opposite direction unless there is a massive shift in voting tendencies by the people. Plus if we don't have access to the European Research it puts us at a massive disadvantage in developing these areas.

Even Italy is way of the ahead of the UK in using green(er) energies, especially for cars. After Brexit though I’m sure that there will be no deregulation and the UK will be a leading future of renewable energy

 

[fernandopartridge]

Interesting read for those who would like us to “Make things”: The myth of Britain's manufacturing decline

Bit old now but stands up. Personally my issue with the decline of what we think of as manufacturing is the loss of mass employment, decent wages, and social mobility. No reason they can’t exist in other industries, though I suspect they’re lost to the winds of time now and we need to solve the economic and social issue that have arisen with new ways of doing things.

Germany held on to theirs but they had a far far more strategic outlook unlike our short term profit view. The City of London is no asset as it has propogated such behaviour to the nth degree.

 

[fernandopartridge]

And vote for who? Remain has one chance. The Lib Dems. But they jumped into bed with the Tories. Labour? No chance while Corbyn is in charge. Saying that he was defended to the hilt for the last few years. But reality has finally hit home.

Remain has a far bigger chance under a Labour gov tbh given that the policy is to give people that choice.

LD policy is revoke without any further voter input, not a vote winner for anybody.

 

[Grendel]

Remain has a far bigger chance under a Labour gov tbh given that the policy is to give people that choice.

LD policy is revoke without any further voter input, not a vote winner for anybody.

She has said this morning she’d vote for Johnson’s deal of it has a referendum attached to it

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I don’t follow your reasoning here, care to elaborate?

With the Japan trade deal, if they can access the EU market without tariffs on goods manufactured elsewhere such as their Asian plants that serve their domestic market, the EU plants are potentially unnecessary.

They could increase manufacture in their Asian plants to meet the European demand (which I assume were more productive/efficient) and shut the EU ones cutting costs if the shipping costs are less than manufacturing in the EU.

So by this if tariffs on EU manufactured goods post-Brexit make them more expensive than if they opened up a UK plant to serve demand here, they'll open up a plant here. All depends on the numbers. Of course if we get a deal that includes no tariffs then it's a moot point.

 

[fernandopartridge]

If tariffs are introduced manufacturing will return to the UK.

Look at Japan. They get a trade deal with the EU then start pulling manufacturing out of Europe.

Christ almighty.

You know the Japan trade deal has REMOVED 99% of tariffs that were previously levied on Japanese imports to the 28 members of the EU. The UK is going in the other direction.

 

[djr8369]

Christ almighty.

You know the Japan trade deal has REMOVED 99% of tariffs that were previously levied on Japanese imports to the 28 members of the EU. The UK is going in the other direction.

This is what I didn’t get. The second sentence seems to contradict the first.


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[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Even Italy is way of the ahead of the UK in using green(er) energies, especially for cars. After Brexit though I’m sure that there will be no deregulation and the UK will be a leading future of renewable energy

Why wouldn't we ?

 

[djr8369]

With the Japan trade deal, if they can access the EU market without tariffs on goods manufactured elsewhere such as their Asian plants that serve their domestic market, the EU plants are potentially unnecessary.

They could increase manufacture in their Asian plants to meet the European demand (which I assume were more productive/efficient) and shut the EU ones cutting costs if the shipping costs are less than manufacturing in the EU.

So by this if tariffs on EU manufactured goods post-Brexit make them more expensive than if they opened up a UK plant to serve demand here, they'll open up a plant here. All depends on the numbers. Of course if we get a deal that includes no tariffs then it's a moot point.

Possibly but I think the issue is complicated by the fact we’d be importing most of the raw materials and components but now with a tariff. There’s also the small matter that we’re way less efficient.


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[shmmeee]

That's you then .

 

[Grendel]

Possibly but I think the issue is complicated by the fact we’d be importing most of the raw materials and components but now with a tariff. There’s also the small matter that we’re way less efficient.


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ironically from an automotive perspective there would be a benefit regarding Japan to leave the Eu - the trade deal has implications for the uk producers.

The one market JLR flagged as an issue was Korea

 

[CCFCSteve]

Christ almighty.

You know the Japan trade deal has REMOVED 99% of tariffs that were previously levied on Japanese imports to the 28 members of the EU. The UK is going in the other direction.

I think we’ll be attempting free trades deal with a majority of countries (including the EU) so not sure what you mean by going in the other direction.

The issue isn’t free trade deals, it’s remaining in single market and CU which would lead to us to having to follow whatever the EU have agreed with other countries (tariffs or not)

The difficulty is weighing up the benefits of remaining in a block or having the ability to negotiate/decide on our own agreements/deals. I can see pros and cons on both sides and would have had no issue with remaining in a CU if (and this is impossible for the EU to provide) we could influence future trade terms and agreements that impact us ie almost/all. Without that ability (which I guess we would only get by remaining in the EU) we could end up being fucked in all directions.

 

[djr8369]

ironically from an automotive perspective there would be a benefit regarding Japan to leave the Eu - the trade deal has implications for the uk producers.

The one market JLR flagged as an issue was Korea

The one market? They haven’t flagged Europe as an issue?


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[skybluetony176]

A New IRA spokesperson on C4 news saying any installation to do with border controls and anybody operating them either at the border or away from the border will be a legitimate target.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Possibly but I think the issue is complicated by the fact we’d be importing most of the raw materials and components but now with a tariff. There’s also the small matter that we’re way less efficient.

I agree - as I said to avoid tariffs completely they would need to have an entire supply chain in the UK. That isn't always possible due to where raw materials are sourced from, even if you could manufacture components etc here as well as finished products.

We are less efficient, but like I say it will all come down to the number crunchers. Is the monetary cost of tariffs and shipping more or less than the capital outlay and running costs of a UK plant?

Instinct tells me in most cases the answer will be that tariffs on imports will be cheaper but there will be some which will show a benefit from UK manufacture.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Why wouldn't we ?

Because there are too many of those that are looking to take control post Brexit with a vested interest not to. Look already at the subsidies for green energy that have been removed yet resources increased into fracking, nuclear and oil.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This is what I didn’t get. The second sentence seems to contradict the first.

I don't think it did.

Japan have got a trade deal with the EU and Japanese companies are closing EU plants down.
If we're leaving a trade deal with the EU then plants of EU companies could open up

Opposite side of the same coin IMO.

But that is of course dependent on if we leave with a deal and what the terms of that deal are.

 

[djr8369]

I don't think it did.

Japan have got a trade deal with the EU and Japanese companies are closing EU plants down.
If we're leaving a trade deal with the EU then plants of EU companies could open up

Opposite side of the same coin IMO.

But that is of course dependent on if we leave with a deal and what the terms of that deal are.

As discussed above the circumstances are quite different but as you say it very much depends on numbers for specific tariff models.


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[fernandopartridge]

I think we’ll be attempting free trades deal with a majority of countries (including the EU) so not sure what you mean by going in the other direction.

The issue isn’t free trade deals, it’s remaining in single market and CU which would lead to us to having to follow whatever the EU have agreed with other countries (tariffs or not)

The difficulty is weighing up the benefits of remaining in a block or having the ability to negotiate/decide on our own agreements/deals. I can see pros and cons on both sides and would have had no issue with remaining in a CU if (and this is impossible for the EU to provide) we could influence future trade terms and agreements that impact us ie almost/all. Without that ability (which I guess we would only get by remaining in the EU) we could end up being fucked in all directions.

A tariff free deal with the USA for example would have far less benefit than the massive downside brought about by the barriers (e.g. Customs, regulatory issues) of Brexit. However you should have read my post in the context of what Astute (sic) said.

 

[CCFCSteve]

A tariff free deal with the USA for example would have far less benefit than the massive downside brought about by the barriers (e.g. Customs, regulatory issues) of Brexit. However you should have read my post in the context of what Astute (sic) said.

Sorry if I misunderstood :emoji_relaxed:

 

[CCFCSteve]

A New IRA spokesperson on C4 news saying any installation to do with border controls and anybody operating them either at the border or away from the border will be a legitimate target.

Scum (not you Tony !). Whilst I recognise the importance of not breaching the GFA I don’t think terrorists should dictate UK government policy.

 

[skybluetony176]

Scum (not you Tony !). Whilst I recognise the importance of not breaching the GFA I don’t think terrorists should dictate UK government policy.

Thank god the DUP don’t have terrorist links then. Oh, wait...

 

[fernandopartridge]

Scum (not you Tony !). Whilst I recognise the importance of not breaching the GFA I don’t think terrorists should dictate UK government policy.

All seems a bit convenient that the IRA are ready for a TV interview doesn't it

 

[skybluetony176]

All seems a bit convenient that the IRA are ready for a TV interview doesn't it

I made a post not that long ago saying that elements of the troubles never disappeared such a so called mercy beatings and kneecapping even before recent events in Derry and Brexit was a focal point of that. One or two on here belittled what I had to say and I really take no pleasure (given that my family lived through and were victims of the troubles) in being proven right by what this scum bag had to say in the interview.

 

[shmmeee]

This is hilarious, the legislation referred to that might make the WA illegal was Moggs idea apparently.





For the record, I think this is a bit of a dick move (to use a technicality to stop Brexit), but I can also see the “well they started it” argument when it comes to win at all costs. I wouldn’t have done it though, I think it’ll leave a particularly nasty taste if successful.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Aww. It’s not easy being world king is it Boris.

Brexit deal hangs in balance amid DUP talks

See this sort of post creates (in my mind at least) an image of someone desperate for Brexit to happen & Britain to fall flat on it's face just so that they can smugly smile & say "I told you so"

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