The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (15 Viewers)

[Astute]

So in summary

1. We should have tried harder to keep Ireland in the union against its will and didn’t use enough military force

2. Business profits matter more than workers having enough to live

3. You have no interest in the PM wanting to spend £15 billion on a pointless bridge even though you regularly accuse the opposition of throwing money away

4. Tony’s mates comprise the whole UK adult population

Give up old man Joe Biden makes more sense

2, Companies going under because they can't afford a 33% pay increase.

 

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[Astute]

How many companies employment is 100% on minimum wage?

Are you saying that a pay rise to £10 an hour minimum wouldn't be a problem for any companies?

 

[clint van damme]

So far you have ignored me saying about it sending inflation flying. Wages shoot up = higher prices. Higher prices = higher inflation. Have you got a mortgage? Do you like your cheap mortgage. Because mortgage rates would multiply. And all for a £2.50 an hour pay rise.

Inflation has been kept low for years for a reason. But you champion changing it. A typical blind old Labour plan. Are you too young to remember what happened last time Labour was in power and it happened?

The USA currently has its highest ever minimum wage and a government report has concluded it has had no negative impact on the economy.
It also estimated that the tipping point for the minimum wage negatively impacting the economy would be when it reached 60% of the average wage.
Appreciate what happens in the States doesn't necessarily translate to what happens here but it's a decent indicator.

 

[Astute]

The USA currently has its highest ever minimum wage and a government report has concluded it has had no negative impact on the economy.
It also estimated that the tipping point for the minimum wage negatively impacting the economy would be when it reached 60% of the average wage.
Appreciate what happens in the States doesn't necessarily translate to what happens here but it's a decent indicator.

Highest ever maybe. But it is $7.25 or £5.80

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No

1. The act of partial independence caused significant issues for decades to come. Oddly your Sinn Fein hugging buddies would I’m sure welcome the unification opportunity - especially the shadow chancellor who opposed the GFA

2. It’s emotive drivel. Most Eu countries agree the wage we have is a reasonable balance. It’s a sound bite that will cause misery for many of those it’s supposed to benefit. The last labour government has ruined many working class people’s long term prosperity by raidng the pension pots to reward the indolent in it’s bloating if the welfare state

3. This is a random comment - I don’t get the fixation on it. I suppose at least the indolent May get a job working on it but as I don’t see the point of it i don’t understand the discussion. The real IRA would probably blow it up which would give the gruesome Sinn Fein twosome a giggle so I’d pass

4. Tony’s made a comment to try and be smart. Tony is a fool who spent more time defending UKiP against a racist accusation than ever commenting on football. He tries to sound smart but lacks any style or substance and changes sides to attempt some form of populism.

Ultimately it’s you who sounds utterly ridiculous and is developing a very large chip on your shoulder

The private schooling hasn’t suited you. It’s given you a sense of privilege and entitlement which you do not understand has to be earned

The act of many centuries spent occupying Ireland and forcing it into the union caused problems from the off.

Evidence shows that higher minimum wages do not lead to the theoretical disasters you predict-the real sound bites that screwed the working classes were made by the Leave side in 2016 and are made in the right wing press every election cycle.

Jumping through mental hoops to avoid criticising the absurd proposals of the current PM. It’s a bit like you avoiding discussion on historic unemployment rates once the record highs under Thatcher and Major are pointed out or moving the goalposts on the Queen’s ability to refuse the PM’s requests. Even now, you can’t admit you were wrong in your 2017 GE prediction. Wishing that mistakes would go away doesn’t make them so

You quoted it as ‘nobody over 18 is on minimum wage

You don’t know my background-or me for that matter-all that well

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Highest ever maybe. But it is $7.25 or £5.80

The US minimum wage has lagged behind inflation and worker productivity for decades

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

2, Companies going under because they can't afford a 33% pay increase.

Empirical evidence to the contrary

 

[Astute]

The US minimum wage has lagged behind inflation and worker productivity for decades

But it was just used as maybe being a good reason to have record high minimum wage. It is nowhere near a living wage.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Easy to say. But how many companies can afford to spend 33% more on pay? Then there is the associated expenses.

Yes £7.50 to £10 is a 33% pay rise.

Not having to pay all the tax credits etc would reduce the burden on the government so theoretically taxes can be reduced, or better utilised to further benefit businesses on health etc so workers spend less time off ill (reducing sick pay) or not working to their potential. As you would agree govt/public sector is one of the most inefficient systems so by not involving the govt to top up wages is an efficiency saving on the admin and red tape involved with the credits and benefits system.

The rest can be covered either by a modest increase in prices below that of the wage inflation so things are still more affordable overall or a slight drop in the significant profit margins of the large companies.

 

[clint van damme]

Highest ever maybe. But it is $7.25 or £5.80

it alters by State, up to 13 dollars, (only one state), but a lot at around the 11 mark.
I think the 60 percent of the average wage is the interesting bit. Think that would equate to around just under £9 per hour in the UK so we're not a million miles away.

 

[Astute]

Empirical evidence to the contrary

How about showing where raising the minimum wage by 33% won't cause harm.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So far you have ignored me saying about it sending inflation flying. Wages shoot up = higher prices. Higher prices = higher inflation. Have you got a mortgage? Do you like your cheap mortgage. Because mortgage rates would multiply. And all for a £2.50 an hour pay rise.

Inflation has been kept low for years for a reason. But you champion changing it. A typical blind old Labour plan. Are you too young to remember what happened last time Labour was in power and it happened?

And you've ignored me saying the inflation would be down to greed by the rich and the companies by exploiting the increase in wages and refusing to accept a hit to their quite substantial profit margins in the case of large corporations.

 

[Sick Boy]

1. The act of partial independence caused significant issues for decades to come. Oddly your Sinn Fein hugging buddies would I’m sure welcome the unification opportunity - especially the shadow chancellor who opposed the GFA

And only the other week you were against the GFA too and called it the Surrender Agreement.

 

[Otis]

Geez, are the Lib Dems deliberately trying not to get into office?

Scrap Brexit is a total vote loser. You can't a just scrap it. That WOULD be a betrayal of democracy. You either get a deal, or take
it back to the people.

Shooting themselves in the foot if they go for that one surely.

 

[Astute]

it alters by State, up to 13 dollars, (only one state), but a lot at around the 11 mark.
I think the 60 percent of the average wage is the interesting bit. Think that would equate to around just under £9 per hour in the UK so we're not a million miles away.

Have just looked.

The national minimum wage is €7.25 and about 1/3 of the states have it set to this.

Only 12 states pay $10 or more.

Only 6 states pay $11 or more.

Only the state of Colombia is over $11.10. It is $13.25. That is £10.59. So the next highest is $11.10 and that is £8.88

 

[Astute]

And you've ignored me saying the inflation would be down to greed by the rich and the companies by exploiting the increase in wages and refusing to accept a hit to their quite substantial profit margins in the case of large corporations.

Don't you understand what causes inflation?

 

[Grendel]

The USA currently has its highest ever minimum wage and a government report has concluded it has had no negative impact on the economy.
It also estimated that the tipping point for the minimum wage negatively impacting the economy would be when it reached 60% of the average wage.
Appreciate what happens in the States doesn't necessarily translate to what happens here but it's a decent indicator.

Mmmmm

The Unintended Consequences Of Raising Minimum Wage To $15

 

[Astute]

Geez, are the Lib Dems deliberately trying not to get into office?

Scrap Brexit is a total vote loser. You can't a just scrap it. That WOULD be a betrayal of democracy. You either get a deal, or take
it back to the people.

Shooting themselves in the foot if they go for that one surely.

Depends what the real numbers are. IF more than 50% wanted to stay in the EU why would scrapping Brexit be a vote loser? They didn't have many votes before Brexit either.

And many see not carrying out Brexit being a betrayal of democracy. So it depends on how you see the situation.

 

[Otis]

Depends what the real numbers are. IF more than 50% wanted to stay in the EU why would scrapping Brexit be a vote loser? They didn't have many votes before Brexit either.

And many see not carrying out Brexit being a betrayal of democracy. So it depends on how you see the situation.

I mean a vote loser in terms of them not getting into power on the back of that policy.

 

[clint van damme]

Have just looked.

The national minimum wage is €7.25 and about 1/3 of the states have it set to this.

Only 12 states pay $10 or more.

Only 6 states pay $11 or more.

Only the state of Colombia is over $11.10. It is $13.25. That is £10.59. So the next highest is $11.10 and that is £8.88

29 States pay over the 7.25 minimum.

 

[clint van damme]

Mmmmm

The Unintended Consequences Of Raising Minimum Wage To $15

Economists Are Learning to Love the Minimum Wage - CityLab

plenty of articles and reports in addition to the one linked stating it's beneficial, as i'm sure there's plenty to the contrary.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But it was just used as maybe being a good reason to have record high minimum wage. It is nowhere near a living wage.

Yes and now the American government is also forced to cover low wages by welfare assistance. You're sat there arguing for people to earn less

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Mmmmm

The Unintended Consequences Of Raising Minimum Wage To $15

Here’s the effect a $15 minimum wage has on jobs and poverty in low-income areas, according to a new study from Berkeley

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you saying that a pay rise to £10 an hour minimum wouldn't be a problem for any companies?

No, clearly not. I’m saying that it isn’t going to cause companies wage bills to rise 33%. Not all their staff will be on minimum wage so many employees aren’t going to get a pay rise.

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s you that’s struggling Tony - you seem to think £10 is not more than twice £4.35

No I don’t. Unlike you I also don’t think 2 x £8.21, 2 x £7.70 and 2 x £6.15 all equal £10.00.

 

[skybluetony176]

2, Companies going under because they can't afford a 33% pay increase.

Good job their wage bill isn’t increasing 33% then.

 

[skybluetony176]

How many skilled workers would want more than unskilled workers?

Not sure what your point is there.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I'm sure that some of you guys will be relieved...

EU-UK Brexit talks to continue next week - Reuters

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[SkyblueBazza]

And can relax a little at least...

EU commissioner Hogan sees 'cause for some optimism' on Brexit talks - Reuters

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[shmmeee]

My take on NMW is a moral rather than purely economic one. I feel any able bodied person working 40 hours a week in any job should be able to survive without government handouts.

The economics are mixed, this is a nice overview of the states: NPR Choice page

I think ultimately, giving money to poor people always leads to more economic benefits than giving it to rich people. You can only consume so much, while there’s still need at the bottom, there’s economic activity that can produce wealth for others at a greater rate than investments or savings.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

My take on NMW is a moral rather than purely economic one. I feel any able bodied person working 40 hours a week in any job should be able to survive without government handouts.

The economics are mixed, this is a nice overview of the states: NPR Choice page

I think ultimately, giving money to poor people always leads to more economic benefits than giving it to rich people. You can only consume so much, while there’s still need at the bottom, there’s economic activity that can produce wealth for others at a greater rate than investments or savings.

See...I actually agree with your 1sr point. 2nd point I think I 1/2 agree. As a society by supplementing wage to be able to live despite having given a fair day's work...we serve to feed the wealthy. What we need to do is make the wealthy pay the going rate for the job they want doing. Then they would attract mote applicants.

My premise is that if you want people to sort your shit out, you don't give them more shit as payment because they are actually in the thick of it anyway! You need someone to sort your shit you have to give them something worthwhile to sort it!

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[dutchman]

My take on NMW is a moral rather than purely economic one. I feel any able bodied person working 40 hours a week in any job should be able to survive without government handouts.

My understanding is that the DWP is of the same opinion and anyone claiming top-up payments is now required to spend a minimum number of hours a week looking for better-paid employment, even if they are already working full time?

 

[Astute]

29 States pay over the 7.25 minimum.

Which is £5.80 so don't understand why you champion it so much.

 

[Astute]

I mean a vote loser in terms of them not getting into power on the back of that policy.

It is the only chance they have of winning a GE.

If people so pissed off with leaving the EU won't vote for them if it means we stay in who will vote for them?

 

[Astute]

Yes and now the American government is also forced to cover low wages by welfare assistance. You're sat there arguing for people to earn less

No. Putting a bit of reality to what you make out to be an easy thing to do.

How about yourself? If non skilled workers earned nearly as much as yourself would you want more? What would the use be of going to university if there wasn't much of a financial boost for many?

It isn't me not saying people shouldn't earn more. It is me being realistic.