Surely time for change? (3 Viewers)

[Jimmy Hill's Chin]

If not now, when? The way things are going we'll be practically down by Christmas. We have to demote Thorn back to scout and roll the dice. Look at the impact of a new manager has had on Bristol City. We must act now before it is too late. And lets get an experienced manager in and not Carsley. We've have too many unproven managers. I'm not saying it's all AT's fault and he has been treated very badly by SISU but as they don't appear to be going anywhere and surely something has to change otherwise the slow death continues...

 

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[Glen]

who on earth would want this job NO ONE.

 

[ICHAN]

Sorry jimmy hills chin just started a thread about the same kind of thing, great minds and all that.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I have lost faith in Thorn for the first time this season.

Rioch and Carsley seem the only likely candidates to get promoted to manager/assisstant? Can't do any worse than Thorn/Harrison and obviously work well with the young players.

 

[Glen]

True but its the board we have to blame most of all Thorn was great last season can't suddenly become awful

 

[shmmeee]

If we can't afford a single loan player (Gardner is free) how the hell are we going to afford to pay off Thorn, let alone bring anyone better in?

A manager costs just as much as a new (free) player and we can't afford that.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I don't think it'd make us any better. The squad simply isn't good enough. I've been expecting relegation all season based on that. What people don't seem to grasp is that the teams confidence is shattered because of the position we're in, making it a vicious cycle. It was always going to be ulikely that we could stay up anyway with our side, but once heads dropped, it becomes impossible. I don't care who's manager, they won't be able to turn around a spiral like this with the players we have. And who would want the job? If we could get O'Neill I'd say sack AT now, but we all know it will most likely be Carsley-a complete novice.

We just aren't good enough, and this is why many of us have been shouting SISU OUT since July. Bottom is the natural conclusion to their mismanagement. Gardner showed what a bit of quality can do today, but our illustrious custodians have left it far too late-and too little: we needed 3-5 quality new signings this summer. That the board continued to promise them makes it even harder to take.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I don't think it'd make us any better. The squad simply isn't good enough. I've been expecting relegation all season based on that. What people don't seem to grasp is that the teams confidence is shattered because of the position we're in, making it a vicious cycle. It was always going to be ulikely that we could stay up anyway with our side, but once heads dropped, it becomes impossible. I don't care who's manager, they won't be able to turn around a spiral like this with the players we have. And who would want the job? If we could get O'Neill I'd say sack AT now, but we all know it will most likely be Carsley-a complete novice.

We just aren't good enough, and this is why many of us have been shouting SISU OUT since July. Bottom is the natural conclusion to their mismanagement. Gardner showed what a bit of quality can do today, but our illustrious custodians have left it far too late-and too little: we needed 3-5 quality new signings this summer. That the board continued to promise them makes it even harder to take.

I agree but a change of manager is the 1 wild card the club has up its sleeve. We are joint bottom now and I don't believe anybody can do a worse job.

 

[Jimmy Hill's Chin]

I agree but a change of manager is the 1 wild card the club has up its sleeve. We are joint bottom now and I don't believe anybody can do a worse job.

Agreed, the point is does anyone seriously think under Thorn we can turn this around? Probably if we recruited Alex Ferguson or Jose Mourinho this team would still go down but at least if we get someone else in they may be a very slight chance. No change, no chance I'd say.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

It's a fair point but when you're banking on Lee Carsley miraculously turning out to be the next Clough or Busby, I'm inclined to stick with what we have.

 

[ICHAN]

The only benefit I can see is we have nothing to lose and maybe a change would bring a new approach and an air of fresh air, also teams nearly always have a honeymoon period by bringing in a new manager and may help give us a little bit of a kick start and a kick up the backside of the players who are too comfortable in there position as they know there is no competition for there place, not thats theres any money to replace them but a kick up there arse may make them sit up and take some responsibility .
Also agree with what NLHWC says as well about the team etc

 

[smileycov]

Why do people keep starting threads like this? As if they have stumbled upon something no one can see!!
sisu will NOT bring anyone in, no manager, no players & no investment....it is pointless saying a new manager will help, we are never going to get one. Nothing will change, we will go down, the lads are trying but collectively we are poor. the board dont give a flying fuck, we are gone and they will strip us bare and leave us in the shit. All we can do is watch and wait!!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

The only benefit I can see is we have nothing to lose and maybe a change would bring a new approach and an air of fresh air, also teams nearly always have a honeymoon period by bringing in a new manager and may help give us a little bit of a kick start and a kick up the backside of the players who are too comfortable in there position as they know there is no competition for there place, not thats theres any money to replace them but a kick up there arse may make them sit up and take some responsibility .
Also agree with what NLHWC says as well about the team etc

There's always a chance of that, but it feels to me like it would be rolling 6 dice and needing a 6 on all of them. I equally feel that knowing our luck we'll roll 6 1's, and things will somehow get even worse..I mean, imagine if Boothroyd was in charge now? We'd probably have 1 or 2 points.

 

[oldskyblue58]

To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate the impossible you are left with the possible .......... SISU wont put more money in, we cant get more players before January (dreaming again ) the only thing that can change is the manager. Something has to change soon before we are sunk out of sight.

We have played one match well for 90 minutes out of 19. It proves we can play at that level but we dont with any consistency at all. Lets be honest despite the bit of pride we got from WHU game we all knew what was likely to follow and so it proved. Cardiff was a pretty turgid game and from all the comments I have heard Brighton was a pretty poor display lacking in any real threat. We can make all the excuses of its SISU's fault, there is no money, we dont have the players, the players are too young etc etc etc but the team competes in most matches this season for only 30 minutes that simply is not good enough. How often have seen the comment from AT that the second half was better. The job of any manager is to at least make the team competitive - it doesnt happen. We move the ball too slowly, we dont defend in depth, we dont pressure the ball, we play pretty and ineffective football in our own half, we think passing back allowing the opposition to organise is good play.................. it goes on and on. Sorry but it seems i watch different games to AT because he sees none of this claiming we dont get the luck our play deserves - yes we do AT !

AT's interview summed it up ...... we were not good first half, dont want to see that again, second half we were much better got shots at goal, and deserved a draw, the goals well he didnt want to comment on the first goal but the second was down to Conor Thomas :facepalm: (blame the youngsters but cant say anything about the captain cocking up ?) That wasnt the game I heard or it seems that many saw...... but that has often been the case he has seen a different game to the one i have attended

If the Board are doing something at all for this club they should be looking around for possible candidates to replace him- to give them options. It isnt about the lack of money or lack of players...... the team should at least be set up to be competitive, get at the opposition, have a formation that makes us hard to beat, actually threaten the goal, it is the managers function to set the team up to do that - sorry AT you just dont do that

We have 13 points out of 57 for gods sake!

You cannot manage a Championship side like a sunday pub team

Sorry but am seriously pissed off after the last two matches - one decent full game out of 19 is not good enough. Nice guy he may be but I am seriously doubting if he has what it takes to manage properly

 

[stupot07]

Oldskyblue - this thing about us only being able to perform for more than 1 half isn't a new phenomenon, it was the same under Adams, dowie, Coleman, boothroyd, etc and now thorn. What ever you say, it is down to the lack of quality - quality isn't just summed up by what someone can do, but also the fact that they can do it consistently or a sustained period. That is what we lack and have done for a long time.

 

[ICHAN]

Can things get any worse though nonleague?
I am not one of these who go around calling for a managers head at every opportunity and don't do it, but unfortunatly I honestly think for the first time I can remember something has to give and it has to be AT.
The thing is, in the past with inept managers they never got this long into a losing streak before they were given the boot.
This time it is differant because all the outrage is towards sisu and so it should be without a question of doubt, but AT has gone as far as he is going to go with these players and that is down.
This is not his fault as he is not a manager, a damn good scout maybe but manager no, he was thrown in at the deep end but he could have said no I don't want the job, he took it on and so he should be taking some blame as well and should do the honerable thing and step down in my opinion.
Ok some may not agree fair enough but in my opinion no-one twisted his arm to take the job, he knew we have no money he knew sisu are full of lies as he has been here while they have been in charge and he knew what he was doing.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I know what you are saying Stu but this is the first season in years i have regularly come away from games feeling we havent really competed, havent done the dirty things in games to compete. We set up to play pretty, slow, neutral football. We set up to retain the ball in our half and except for the front two get nose bleeds if we get forward. That isnt just about quality thats more to do with desire passion and fitness for the players and how the manager sets up to play. We proved against WHU that we had some quality we pressed the ball and played on the front foot. Quality comes into it certainly but so does the inability of the manager to choose a competitive team & tactics more than 5% of the time.

 

[ashbyjan]

We desperately needed some new players - anyone could see that even ken and the board and due to their self imposed embargo on spending we get a kid from villa. So even when were desperate they won't spend a penny. Now people are asking them to spend money paying off AT - years salary as on 12 month rolling contract - if they gave a toss about what happened on the pitch then maybe yes but they don't and they won't. Spend money sacking AT and then more recruiting someone new? SISU don't care abt the team or the fans just the balance sheet.

 

[stupot07]

I know that your saying but with a bit more quality we would be further up the league. I took my villa supporting cousin up on Tuesday and he thought we should have been 2 nil up at half time, both platt and juke had good chances.

Had juke scored the pen against reading, had murphy not spilled a shot at crystal palace, had clingan not given the ball away today, had Cody put that 1-on-1 away v burnley, had bigi not get sent off, etc. Some of this is tactical and the mangers fault and some is the lack of quality, consistency and mental strength.

AT is far from perfect, but we really lack quality.

 

[ICHAN]

Hi stupot.
Alot of if's and but's in there, but these things have happened and gone, I know what you are saying and not having a go but it's the old saying if only this had happened etc etc, I am sure you know what I am trying to say

 

[Otis]

I definitely think we lack a battling spirit and a bit of fight. When you haven't got the best team you can go a long way in being able to get yourself out of a mess and up further up the table by playing with a bit of passion and desire.

We simply aren't doing this. Lots of teams have stayed up with not the best squads available but because they have fought and battled and worked tirelessly to grind out results.

 

[stupot07]

Hi stupot.
Alot of if's and but's in there, but these things have happened and gone, I know what you are saying and not having a go but it's the old saying if only this had happened etc etc, I am sure you know what I am trying to say

I know what your saying ICHAN, but it does cut both ways, and a lot of criticism of AT (not all) has been around the lines of if's and but's. If AT hadn't replaced Cody with ROD v burnley, If AT had put Cody on v WHU and Cardiff, If we ditch the diamond, iwe went 442, if we went 352, if we stopped tippy tappy football and went more direct.

I know you will say it's about trying something different, being proactive, and i agree, but we also don't know whether any of those changes in tactics and substitutions would have led to us having anymore points.

 

[Macca]

Andy Thorn is a miracle worker

 

[stupot07]

I definitely think we lack a battling spirit and a bit of fight. When you haven't got the best team you can go a long way in being able to get yourself out of a mess and up further up the table by playing with a bit of passion and desire.

We simply aren't doing this. Lots of teams have stayed up with not the best squads available but because they have fought and battled and worked tirelessly to grind out results.

I couldn't agree more - the problem is your really looking to your midfield to set the tone for your battling spirit. And our midfield for the majority of the season has been been a mixture Clingan, Bigi, Thomas, Bell and Sheffers - there is not one 'Dogs of War' player in our midfield.

 

[PVA]

We've have too many unproven managers.

Really???

AB, CC, ID, MA are all 'proven managers' and they got us nowhere.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Really???

AB, CC, ID, MA are all 'proven managers' and they got us nowhere.

Also worth noting that two of our better-performing managers over the last decade, Black and Nilsson, were unproven.

 

[ICHAN]

There will always be if's and but's in everything and anything anyone does in there lives as we do not know whats around the corner, thats life and thats a good thing otherwise it would be pretty boring and scary if we knew what was going to happen next.
Football however is differant as it's thousands of people trying to have differant opinions about one subject the team they support.
No-one knows if changing this that or the other would work or would be better.
As a club something has to give and give soon and as I have said before the only thing that does give in any football club, is the manager, always has always will, as it is a results business and results bring the rewards with it, but when it's bad the manager is the one who ultimatly pays the price weather thats right or wrong thats the way it is.
As a results orientated business Thorn has to go (if there was not the hatred for sisu AT would be feeling the fans wrath by now I would think), we know there has been no money, we know players have gone and have not been replaced, we know the board are liers the list goes on.
Who to replace him with? the million pound question, I do not know and thats another thread.
I have no beef with AT as I am sure he is trying his best with what he has at his disposal, but he was only a scout and maybe in hindsight should not have taken this job on, more experianced managers have tried and failed to awaken the phoenix from the ashes and have nearly all been unsuccessful.

 

[Tankie]

Hi Fellas,
I have an Idea, that Sisu/Finance, is setting its stall out to play 1st division Football next season, the Arithmatic might just add up better, and based upon our gates, life managing a 1st division club might suit them just fine, and they might reach break even point or even show a proffit.
This is not something that may just occurred have to them, looking at the investment so far this year, this plan could have been in place before the season started.
They may have the idea that a successful 1st division side, would generate more income from gate reciepts, than a struggling championship side, and if we were top of the first division, instead of bottom of the Champioship, who amongst us would POO POO their theory.
AS for Andy Thorn, well I'm bored with seeing managers come and go at this Football club, without making an iota of difference, and who would we get in his place, that would work under the constraints that he has had to?.
If Thorn got the sack, i could see oggy and the academy coaches, Rioch and Carsley stepping up, as a low cost alternative, we just wouldn't pay for an established man.
"Post a load of rubish" well lets wait and see!
Respect to all posters
Tank top..

 

[ICHAN]

Nice theory tankie, that is dependent on one thing? Us being successful in the 1st division but do understand your thinking.
Respect to yourself as well.

 

[Grendel]

True but its the board we have to blame most of all Thorn was great last season can't suddenly become awful

How do you define great? No wins in the last 5 matches of the season? How many games did you attend?

 

[Grendel]

Really???

AB, CC, ID, MA are all 'proven managers' and they got us nowhere.

Well at least this unroven manager will get us out of this league -- keep him and he will perform the trick again and again.

 

[stupot07]

Well at least this unroven manager will get us out of this league -- keep him and he will perform the trick again and again.

If those managers had been in charge of us in our current plight, i think they would be taking us down too

 

[Otis]

I couldn't agree more - the problem is your really looking to your midfield to set the tone for your battling spirit. And our midfield for the majority of the season has been been a mixture Clingan, Bigi, Thomas, Bell and Sheffers - there is not one 'Dogs of War' player in our midfield.

There is and I think you have forgotten about him. Gary Deegan.

 

[stupot07]

There is and I think you have forgotten about him. Gary Deegan.

I hadn't forgotten him, just don't think we can get him off the physio's table long enough to make a sustained contribution to the side.

 

[Otis]

Just think he has that fighting spirit for sure.