The original headlease between the Owners and CCC contained a development agreement which includes a larger stadium and commercial. So nothing new there then
Butts park arena? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter rexo87
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The original headlease between the Owners and CCC contained a development agreement which includes a larger stadium and commercial. So nothing new there then
You are dead right. Of course, money talks. The Investment would be have to be huge - digging downwards, building upwards,maybe bridging the road and all dependant on residents agreeing/ acceptong and the people you have been battling with in court for years providing better traffic links.
I really don't want to piss in anyone's chips, but if you look at that picture there is no way on this earth anyone would be allowed to build a much bigger stand there that would block out the light of the buildings behind.
This therefore just reinforces the suggestion of a sunken pitch, but we all know that would add millions to the project. Even on the drawing board I can foresee major problems.
I really hope someone can conjure up a bit of magic that would make the whole thing feasible, but transport links are going to be terrible through to anything like a 20,000+ seater stadium.
My wife quite often has to be dropped off in Queen's Road at the back of the Butts on a Saturday afternoon around 1.30 pm and the traffic getting through can be really bad. Usually tailbacks on the Radford Road through to town and then again at the Earlsdon/Tile Hill exit on the ring road, with queues into IKEA and the SkyDome.
I really think there would be massive opposition from local residents, especially around the Earlsdon area, where getting in and out on a match day could be horrific.
Think there are massive obstacles in the way and while in theory it all seems ideal, the reality of it ever happening is a lot, lot less likely.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
As a general question.
Why? I thought changes to leases were commercially confidential, and didn;t have to be released? Isn't this why nobody botheres with FOIs ref: the Wasps deal?
Why? I thought changes to leases were commercially confidential, and didn;t have to be released? Isn't this why nobody botheres with FOIs ref: the Wasps deal?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm not talking about equalling that height, but any stand we build will be much taller than this for sure and therefore would block out some of the light of some of the storey-s of the buildings behind.
Agree with you about the traffic. It does need a good sort out anyway.
Think they said 100% of Matchday income and access to other streams?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
At the very least a deal like this may get them everything on a match day plus 50% of commercial activity at other times.
This is better than the the current arrangements.
Isn't the first tall building on the boundary next to club a car park anyway?
For a Rugby Club...not for a team that could become a Championship team within 1 season... And maybe one day a premiership team.
If we were in the Championship with a 15000 joint stadium, we would be already discussing building a new Arena 2030 with at least 30000 capacity in the hope of reaching the Premiership,
Did they mention the stadium rental? No, I thought not. So how do you know it will be better than the current arrangements?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
No you have suggested 40k and the champions league in a poor attempt at belittling my very reasonable point.
As Otis has very aptly highlighted,
Other clubs with ambition are expanding their stadiums.
15k is what we will be getting. We finished 8th in division three this season and that capacity would have been just about right.
You can't use all your capacity remember.
I would hope we have ambitions to get back to the top division.
We were in that top division for 30 plus years so I see no reason why we should not be there again.
Apparently the main thing stopping us is having access to full revenues.
Personally I think the only thing stopping us is having owners with the means and desire to get there (but that could change)
Swansea are there they have their 21k stadium.
In which they have 8000 additional people wanting but unable to get season tickets.
So if we get to where we should be it won't be the odd match it will be every match. In that scenario it may actually be you missing out and if it is with your comments about "tough" earlier I wouldn't shed a tear.
If we get into the championship we won't expand to 25k we will expand to 18k
It will be more than the odd match people miss out on. Unless we are bottom half championship.
Also there are no guarantees we get the permissions or have the finances to expand.
So one thing would be certain we would have a 15k capacity stadium.
No self respecting ambitious Cov fan should be happy with that. Sorry they just shouldn't.
Location perfect much better than the Ricoh
Finances in theory better than the Ricoh
Capacity crap.
We may one day get owners who do want to get us in the premiership SISU have stated their aim is to sell eventually.
The new owners will have no option to get us up to the 30k that all the other clubs by then will have.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Not sure. To the hotel you mean?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
It might have been mentioned before but couldnt this be another Sisu style plan to put undue pressure on Wasps to get a share or better deal at the Ricoh. Its obvious that it needs to be a two team stadium and Wasps arent exactly filling the place and have that dividend to pay back? To me its great news either way, get a better deal at the Ricoh and more revenue for TM or move away and actually have a home plus in a cracking location not on the outskirts of town.
For me that's exactly what it is.
Which is s Shane as it gets a loads of fans hopes up. It also shows they have learnt nothing from how negotiating tactics such as this actually pan.
Would much prefer if they did drop all legal action
Dropped this bargaining chip.
Produced a report for Wasps about their future plans for CCFC and the kind of money that would generate for Wasps as a knock on effect.
Show Wasps how these plans are not achievable in the current set up.
Show them how by adapting the agreement they will eventually earn more money.
Nick
Administrator
I understand the pressure on Wasps logic, but I also don't understand what RFC would gain from it? All they would be doing is lying to their fans and pissing them off, and if they had looked at the Telegraph in the last few years they would have seen how that wouldn't have worked.
Do we think Cov RFC are stupid enough to just fall for it and go along and it is just them being naive and SISU are using them?
Do we think Cov RFC are stupid enough to just fall for it and go along and it is just them being naive and SISU are using them?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Currently what they've got out of it, surely, is that the city council are determined to parachute in a new rugby club and allow multi use on their stadium, but want to try and stop the traditional rugby club progressing (and potentially competing) by adding restrictions.
Managed correctly... that's got to be worth a few on the gate, hasn't it?
Nick
Administrator
Well yes, there is the fact that obviously they will be limited Cov RFC (Which they have always said they wouldn't) and that also Wasps haven't fulfilled any of their promises like they said they would.
It seems a bit extreme just to get a few on the gate though!
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
In the long run, it might get CRFC what they want too however.
And what they want, surely, is to reassert their position as the rugby club of the city?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Rental? Cost of running day to day? It's not as simple as saying we'll have 100% of match day revenue and 50% of other revenue. We'll also have 100% of match day costs and 50% of all other day to day running costs. Also while limiting our ticket revenue capacity. That's also before you factor in redevelopment costs and the cost of servicing this debt.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record we need costed business plans to be able to make informed decisions as fans before backing it and jumping in two footed with our eyes closed.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
If SISU are paying for it all and doing the work.
It wouldn't affect CRFC at all.
If it happens, it happens if it doesn't. They are as they are.
At the moment we have architect plans.
Exactly where we were with the new stadium.
Do you think 100% this is about actually producing a 25k capacity stadium there?
Nick
Administrator
It would affect the relationship between the fans and CRFC wouldn't it?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just for information
A little out of date (2004) but this article discusses build costs and construction of stadia. The tables give an example of build costs for a 25000 seater broken down into elements. Doesn't include the cost of dropping the pitch level below ground level. from what I can make out the £31m total should be discounted to 93% of that cost in the midlands = £29m. Excluded are back of house fittings and fit out of hospitality etc and Costs of site preparation, fit-out, external works, loose equipment and catering equipment are excluded, as well as professional fees and VAT. It also doesn't take into account any contribution to infra structure changes that might be required. It also says in the article that a smaller capacity stadium will still incur some of the structural costs on first build if the intention is to increase capacity at a later date
http://www.building.co.uk/cost-model-football-stadiums/3036931.article
if link doesnt work google costs of building a football stadium
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjc6JDT4uXMAhXlJMAKHVmQC_YQFggqMAE&url=http://www.building.co.uk/cost-model-football-stadiums/3036931.article&usg=AFQjCNFz8k2Ij3q45GcMy8ZHW8fnQw_QXg
A little out of date (2004) but this article discusses build costs and construction of stadia. The tables give an example of build costs for a 25000 seater broken down into elements. Doesn't include the cost of dropping the pitch level below ground level. from what I can make out the £31m total should be discounted to 93% of that cost in the midlands = £29m. Excluded are back of house fittings and fit out of hospitality etc and Costs of site preparation, fit-out, external works, loose equipment and catering equipment are excluded, as well as professional fees and VAT. It also doesn't take into account any contribution to infra structure changes that might be required. It also says in the article that a smaller capacity stadium will still incur some of the structural costs on first build if the intention is to increase capacity at a later date
http://www.building.co.uk/cost-model-football-stadiums/3036931.article
if link doesnt work google costs of building a football stadium
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjc6JDT4uXMAhXlJMAKHVmQC_YQFggqMAE&url=http://www.building.co.uk/cost-model-football-stadiums/3036931.article&usg=AFQjCNFz8k2Ij3q45GcMy8ZHW8fnQw_QXg
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Wasps won't make any decisions based on how much money we can generate for them *if* we get promoted to the PL, which is still hugely unlikely even if they give us free rent and 100% match day income.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
I understand the logic too, but I can't see CRFC wanting to be complicit in using it as a bargaining chip for us to use against wasps. These must be at least semi serious discussions.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Sandra Garlick and that forum were not complicit
Rugby Council were not complicit
Talks happen
Plans are made
Problems happen plans never get realised
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Then, the will must be there from club, council... *and* fans to push towards these plans being realised.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So without a costed business plan you wouldn't attend?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You don't need 100% of what's happening at the Ricoh for it to be more than 100% of a 15k stadium with CRFC at the butts.
The revenue alone may not take us to the premiership but the deal may allow a sale to owners who can get us there.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Do you think so?
If CRFC makes plans with CCFC and those plans don't come to fruition for a variety of reasons?
Nick
Administrator
So it's the club taking the rugby club for a ride?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I am struggling to see where he said he wouldn't attend, can you point that line out to me?
Getting a bit worried these days about my eyesight!!!
Nick
Administrator
Of course it would, the same as it does with our fans and the new stadium...
Their fans would be pissed off.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Who knows I don't think you believed a new stadium was going to be built did you?
We're all those people taken for a ride then?
As I say plans can be made and fir lots of reasons plans may not happen.
As was the case with the new stadium.
Although it still may happen remember.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes ydo, as the demand would mean you can charge full up prices. We only achieved 20,000 plus by discounting on average 50% of the ticket face value cost. You wouldn't have to do that I'm this scenario.
Towards the end of our time in the championship it was £8 a ticket and falling fast as supply was huge versus demand.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
You need a 'fully costed' business plan? Surely you'll also need a fully costed plan for remaining at the Ricoh? Or are you assuming that is better?
