Shocked / advise (2 Viewers)

[JulianDarbyFTW]

Genuine question, not an accusatory question. Are you a white man?

I genuinely would find it hard to believe you would hold this view if you weren’t. It’s impossible for me as a brown man (dad Indian, mum English) to even begin to empathise with/ legitimise anyone with far right views.

What you’re saying here is you can find a way to accept that people have a negative view of a person entirely based on their race and / or religion. In my view it’s absolutely abhorrent and always will be.





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You're paraphrasing what I said and spinning it into something completely different. My point is that if you allow people a voice - even if it is one you vehemently disagree with - then wider Society ultimately decides whether it is acceptable or not. That's not empathising with it or legitimising it, it's removing it from the shadows and shining a light on it to show it for what it is.

 

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[napolimp]

I'd be shocked too if someone told me they'd gone to Telford.

 

[Otis]

What to say? Nothing really… the underpinning of a democracy is people are allowed different opinions. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean she isn’t allowed hers.

tommy Robinson is a bellend, but it’s his right in a free and open country to be a bellend

Hmm.... not so sure.

Of course you are allowed an opinion. Doesn't mean you have to put up with it though and this is what Craig is asking. How to handle it, what to say.

I remember many years ago and sitting in a working men's club with friends and one guy walked in that one of these friends knew. He came and sat with us.

I don't quite recall how it all came up, but for some reason, black people did and I have never heard such a race, hate-filled rant before from anyone. It was truly shocking. How black people were abhorrent and lazy, and all looked the same and stank etc. It was utterly disgusting and he wasn't to be reasoned with and went on and on about it, so I just walked out. Left my beer behind. I couldn't stand another single second of it and then always avoided him from that point on.

Well, this is a mother-in-law. This is someone that Craig probably has to see on a quite regular basis.

Seems to me he has two choices. Either to confront her over it, or just curtail contact.

It's fine to say everyone is entitled to an opinion and she is allowed hers, but Tommy Robinson is so much more than just a bell-end. He's quite dangerous and he fuels and stokes things up with his hate-filled speeches.

If someone was a Nazi supporter, I don't think you can just come out and say "well they are entitled to their opinion" can you?

It needs confronting. As it's Craig's mother-in-law here, if it was me, I would have to say to her that I found Tommy Robinson abhorrent, make my feelings clear and then really limit the amount of time spent in her company.

 

[torchomatic]

As unsavoury as it may seem, people are allowed different opinions and beliefs. I'm politically a centrist, and find both the far right and the far left have some distasteful ideals, but I'm happy to allow them to have their voice. The world would be incredibly dull and santised without a wide range of views for people to discuss and challenge and, yes, believe. That's the (thoertical) beauty of a democracy - the view of the majority is what matters, and that can be shaped by challenging conversations by those at the edges.

With that political broadcast out of the way, I'd probably start by asking her why she went.

Allow them to have their views? Of course. Mix with them? Absolutely not.

 

[Covcraig@bury]

Out of curiosity, what age(ish) is she?

78

 

[Covcraig@bury]

So this is what we learnt from last night …

The mother in law and 7 of her friends all about the same age ( mid 70s ) have been fully paid up members of Britain First. They meet once a week in a local pub to discuss politics and put the world to right .
They make weekends of going to Tommy Robinson rallies or other far right gatherings. She and her friends don’t hide the fact that they don’t like foreigners or people of colour. They should all go to where they came from. She is not for re-educating . Her indoors like me could not believe what she was coming out with. Unfortunately she moved from Marbella and bought the house next door to us and we see her every day . We just never knew what this woman got up to !!!
she will be shocked next week when my mate comes around for a drink .

 

[Sick Boy]

So this is what we learnt from last night …

The mother in law and 7 of her friends all about the same age ( mid 70s ) have been fully paid up members of Britain First. They meet once a week in a local pub to discuss politics and put the world to right .
They make weekends of going to Tommy Robinson rallies or other far right gatherings. She and her friends don’t hide the fact that they don’t like foreigners or people of colour. They should all go to where they came from. She is not for re-educating . Her indoors like me could not believe what she was coming out with. Unfortunately she moved from Marbella and bought the house next door to us and we see her every day . We just never knew what this woman got up to !!!
she will be shocked next week when my mate comes around for a drink .

Fucking hell. I’d be genuinely looking at moving.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

So this is what we learnt from last night …

The mother in law and 7 of her friends all about the same age ( mid 70s ) have been fully paid up members of Britain First. They meet once a week in a local pub to discuss politics and put the world to right .
They make weekends of going to Tommy Robinson rallies or other far right gatherings. She and her friends don’t hide the fact that they don’t like foreigners or people of colour. They should all go to where they came from. She is not for re-educating . Her indoors like me could not believe what she was coming out with. Unfortunately she moved from Marbella and bought the house next door to us and we see her every day . We just never knew what this woman got up to !!!
she will be shocked next week when my mate comes around for a drink .

Don't know all the circumstances, but might be worth finding out (if you can) that she is not financing / leaving stuff in her estate to to any associated organisation. These people need 'funding' and they'll look for it wherever they can.

 

[Otis]

So this is what we learnt from last night …

The mother in law and 7 of her friends all about the same age ( mid 70s ) have been fully paid up members of Britain First. They meet once a week in a local pub to discuss politics and put the world to right .
They make weekends of going to Tommy Robinson rallies or other far right gatherings. She and her friends don’t hide the fact that they don’t like foreigners or people of colour. They should all go to where they came from. She is not for re-educating . Her indoors like me could not believe what she was coming out with. Unfortunately she moved from Marbella and bought the house next door to us and we see her every day . We just never knew what this woman got up to !!!
she will be shocked next week when my mate comes around for a drink .

Ask her what she thinks of Kasey Palmer.

 

[skybluejelly]

The best bit about this is she doesn't like foreigners..but it was ok for her to live in Marbella

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[Covcraig@bury]

The best bit about this is she doesn't like foreigners..but it was ok for her to live in Marbella

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She came back because she got mugged 3 times once at knife point who just happened to be Black Africans .

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Don't know all the circumstances, but might be worth finding out (if you can) that she is not financing / leaving stuff in her estate to to any associated organisation. These people need 'funding' and they'll look for it wherever they can.

An excellent practical point in among it all.

 

[Covcraig@bury]

An excellent practical point in among it all.

Well she openly said she pays an annual membership the same as her friends. Not sure how much though

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Well she openly said she pays an annual membership the same as her friends. Not sure how much though

What you don't want (although tbf I'm unsure how you stop it!) is her leaving her house to them!

The point about mental degeneration is maybe worth exploring too, but that depends on whether she's always had a hatred of foreigners I guess?

 

[Covcraig@bury]

What you don't want (although tbf I'm unsure how you stop it!) is her leaving her house to them!

The point about mental degeneration is maybe worth exploring too, but that depends on whether she's always had a hatred of foreigners I guess?

She’s just a very twisted horrible person.

 

[Otis]

She’s just a very twisted horrible person.

So her daughter takes after her dad then I take it.

 

[JulianDarbyFTW]

Sorry @Covcraig@bury, I didn't realise it was quite literally on your doorstep. For some reason when I read you opening post I thought she lived in Telford! The philosophical arguments do go out of the window a bit when it's that close to home.

The options I can think of are:
a) confront her and make it clear that you both think it's unacceptable
b) try to gently educate her on it
c) set boundaries, so make it clear that you won't tolerate any racist conversations in your presence
d) seek support from any other family members to give her a wider voice of reason
e) seek professional or medical help, like others have mentioned, especially if other elements of her behaviour has changed

I'm sure your wife is upset about it, and it's a horrible situation to be in, so if it was me then the reality is that I'd probably be guided by what my wife wanted to do. She's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Hope you find a solution, my friend.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

She’s just a very twisted horrible person.

Does your wife have any brothers or sisters who can help?

 

[Covcraig@bury]

So her daughter takes after her dad then I take it.

Fortunately her dad had the right idea and left her 40 years ago but passed away , he was a great man . Her indoors is as gobsmacked as me . You just don’t know people even this close !

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

She came back because she got mugged 3 times once at knife point who just happened to be Black Africans .

Which is why there needs to be a sensible discussion on immigration. There are also issues in the UK, but to have a conversation about it will often get met with a lot of backlash. It then gets pushed under ground which is why people like Tommy Robinson get a platform. In fact, it's the extremists on both sides which end up being the very vocal minority.

What she's doing isn't the answer though, and it sounds to me like her group of pensioners are all egging each other on. It genuinely sounds like it should be a script from some kind of TV comedy series. It's that bizarre.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Which is why there needs to be a sensible discussion on immigration.

Why? Because she got mugged by people of black African origin?

 

[SBT]

Why? Because she got mugged by people of black African origin?

In Spain, no less!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Why? Because she got mugged by people of black African origin?

In both Spain and the UK (and many other countries in Europe), certain demographics are overrepresented in the crime statistics. That doesn't mean you go and join a Tommy Robinson rally, but equally going into denial, calling people racist, or trying to stifle the debate when the facts are there isn't helpful either. It seems to happen a lot, and gives the anti-immigration argument a bigger platform.

It's better to talk about it openly and come up with some well reasoned answers or solutions, than giving fuel to people like Tommy Robinson.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

In both Spain and the UK (and many other countries in Europe), certain demographics are overrepresented in the crime statistics. That doesn't mean you go and join a Tommy Robinson rally, but equally going into denial, calling people racist, or trying to stifle the debate when the facts are there isn't helpful either. It seems to happen a lot, and gives the anti-immigration argument a bigger platform.

It's better to talk about it openly and come up with some well reasoned answers or solutions, than giving fuel to people like Tommy Robinson.

What you said suggested that people of black African origin are violent, aggressive, criminal minded.

And that is indeed racist, and a non sequitur to this conversation deliberately put in to sow seeds of paranoia and fear of people of black African origin!

That may not have been your intention, but that's what it did.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What you said suggested that people of black African origin are violent, aggressive, criminal minded.

And that is indeed racist, and a non sequitur to this conversation deliberately put in to sow seeds of paranoia and fear of people of black African origin!

That may not have been your intention, but that's what it did.

You're more or less proving my point about one side of the debate fuelling the anti-immigrant argument by insinuating that anyone who talks about the facts are racist. I didn't say anything of the kind (I was pointing out the facts regarding crime statistics), and you are taking your own wishes of what you want to hear and putting those words into my mouth. It puts you in a great position because you get to call someone racist and simultaneously get to avoid talking about the real issues in the same move. That's a very low post and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[clint van damme]

So this is what we learnt from last night …

The mother in law and 7 of her friends all about the same age ( mid 70s ) have been fully paid up members of Britain First. They meet once a week in a local pub to discuss politics and put the world to right .
They make weekends of going to Tommy Robinson rallies or other far right gatherings. She and her friends don’t hide the fact that they don’t like foreigners or people of colour. They should all go to where they came from. She is not for re-educating . Her indoors like me could not believe what she was coming out with. Unfortunately she moved from Marbella and bought the house next door to us and we see her every day . We just never knew what this woman got up to !!!
she will be shocked next week when my mate comes around for a drink .

I'm no expert but I'm fairly sure there's a sitcom in there somewhere

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I'd love such a watertight excuse to never talk to my mother-in-law again.......

 

[Otis]

I'd love such a watertight excuse to never talk to my mother-in-law again.......

I am unable to talk to mine because she is dead.


Well, I hope so anyway. I hit her over the head with a shovel enough times I think, fingers crossed.

 

[rob9872]

Personally I'd say I'm not seeing her but to alienate your wife's family could back fire in you, so rather than drive a wedge, whatever your beliefs it's still your wife's mother, so I'd make it clear that it's up to her if she still sees her without affecting your own relationship.

I guess the way to answer it really is what if it was your own mum and not hers? My parents have done so much for me, I'm not sure at what threshold I'd not accept them and would probably have to be a low bar of murder or kiddy fiddlers.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I am unable to talk to mine because she is dead.


Well, I hope so anyway. I hit her over the head with a shovel enough times I think, fingers crossed.

Of course, that is Craig's other option. But maybe get his missus to do it?

 

[Covcraig@bury]

Some great feed back and it’s much appreciated. I’ve taken a back seat and left this in my wife hands to deal with . She is utterly ashamed of her and her so called friends. I need to find out what has made a 78 year old woman and her friends follow and subscribe to these people . I fear this is media fed and possibly grooming and being influenced by others , still no excuse they all need to give their heads a wobble. As for Tommy Robinson I hope he gets what he deserves.. a right old kicking .

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Great point. In a social media age algorithms can force us to exist in a vacuum which is really really dangerous. You have to be able to find a way to engaged in a nuanced manner though which in a world (online) which thrives on polarisation, that can be really difficult.


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The algorithms underpinning social media platforms can also railroad people into rabbit holes.

To use this as an example, if someone has concerns around immigration. First, they may be fed perfectly reasonable arguments against illegal/legal immigration levels. From here, the algorithm will feed people material from more ‘radical’ platforms and if those posts are interacted with you can have all sorts of shite populate your feed that obsesses over crimes committed by immigrants and what not. Before you know it, you’re being fed bile by Britain First.

Older people especially do not stand a chance against these algorithms and there’s a chance that your MIL has been manipulated by these social media platforms. After all, Britain First at one point had 1.2m followers/likes which was almost all social media driven.

Likewise, the far-right and Islamist groups prey on people in the same way. Isolated people looking for community and exaggerating the threats of an ‘enemy’ - to keep it brief.

By all means Craig, cut her out of your life if you have to. If you can influence her thinking along your lines, that’s surely going to be the best case scenario. I imagine your wife wouldn’t want to give up on her mother.

Netflix has a great documentary on this: The Social Dilemma. I highly recommend this to anyone and everyone.

 

[rob9872]

Tbf you could consider your association as a racism tax. She'll be dead soon and you might have inheritance. If it affects your moral compass to accept it for yourself, then give some to relevant charities and have your revenge when she's dead.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

She'll be dead soon and you might have inheritance.

...or Tommy Robinson might!

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I suppose it could be argued that her opinion of people of colour has been skewed by her previous experiences of being mugged three times in Spain, and that she is scared of all ethnic minority people as a result. Is there a place for rational discussion and even some kind of therapy rather than just consigning your MIL's relationship with you and possibly her daughter to the dustbin? How you begin to have that conversation is beyond me, but maybe she could be brought back from the brink, particularly if you chain her to the radiator to stop her going to her Britain First meetings!!