john mutton (2 Viewers)

[Deleted member 4439]

Political motivation played a part on both sides.

The fact remains thatcher was elected through democratic process. Scargill used anti democratic means to try and bring down an elected institution.

Scargill reminds me of Field Marshall Haig in the Great War. A dispassionate obsessive who saw his own troops as dispensable commodities while sitting back well away from the battle enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

When these dreadful anti democrats leave this earth I suspect their political enemies will ultimately treat their passing with respect. I think that shows class and dignity.

The spiteful ill informed drivel that has come since thatchers passing undermines us as a nation.

Whilst I openly admit to despising the Thatcher governments, I have to agree on your points regarding democracy, though let us not overlook that such was the division that these governments caused, and the protests they engendered, that we perhaps enjoy less democratic freedoms today than we have since the post-war years.

 

---

[Delboycov]

People can argue the pro's and Cons of MT and her effect on the UK at the time and going forward, its all very debatable. I was not a fan as a young man but can understand a lot more of why she did what she did now, 25 years later. All that said I categorically insist that in these times of our declining economy and hardships for many, the public purse should not be paying for the funeral of someone who was undoubtedly very wealthy and indeed spent the last 3 months of her life in a suite at the Ritz !! How insulting is that to those who are now being made redundant in public spending cuts !

Well said Ash. For all the outrage about the 'celebrations' greeting her demise the fact the country is paying such a massive amount of dosh for her send off...at a time when her groupies are inflicting cut after cut on the already downtrodden is the biggest disgrace of all.

 

[Grendel]

Well said Ash. For all the outrage about the 'celebrations' greeting her demise the fact the country is paying such a massive amount of dosh for her send off...at a time when her groupies are inflicting cut after cut on the already downtrodden is the biggest disgrace of all.

Do you think the "massive amount" is as much as taxpayers currently spend to support the bloated benefit system? No I thought not.

 

[Delboycov]

Do you think the "massive amount" is as much as taxpayers currently spend to support the bloated benefit system? No I thought not.

Why are you answering your own questions?

That is entirely irrelevant as I'm sure you realise though.

 

[Grendel]

Why are you answering your own questions?

That is entirely irrelevant as I'm sure you realise though.

It's not a massive amount in context. Three times elected Prime Ministers (even the ghastly Blair) should be afforded the honour.

I suggest if you really want to see the downtrodden take a trip to some Marxist hell hole like Zimbawbe, North Korea or Cuba.

 

[Delboycov]

Political motivation played a part on both sides.

The fact remains thatcher was elected through democratic process. Scargill used anti democratic means to try and bring down an elected institution.

Scargill reminds me of Field Marshall Haig in the Great War. A dispassionate obsessive who saw his own troops as dispensable commodities while sitting back well away from the battle enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

When these dreadful anti democrats leave this earth I suspect their political enemies will ultimately treat their passing with respect. I think that shows class and dignity.

The spiteful ill informed drivel that has come since thatchers passing undermines us as a nation.

Totally agree with you about Scargill though Grendel. Lesson from history for us all there. Never trust someone with a ginger comb over....

 

[Delboycov]

It's not a massive amount in context. Three times elected Prime Ministers (even the ghastly Blair) should be afforded the honour.

I suggest if you really want to see the downtrodden take a trip to some Marxist hell hole like Zimbawbe, North Korea or Cuba.

Fair point although I personally don't feel anyone since Churchill has warranted such lavish expenditure on a funeral, particularly when their 'greatness' is not a view shared by millions of the country and when they have a wealth most people can only dream about. My thoughts on Wednesday will be with those families of working men and women who will have struggled to have afforded to bury their loved ones and will not be able to give them the send of they deserve.

As for 'downtrodden' I'll go with the dictionary definition of "those treated badly by people in power" which as someone facing redundancy I feel right now!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Andy Thorn would have done a better job than Maggie

Possibly, though both still equally divisive!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Originally Posted by Grendel Political motivation played a part on both sides.

The fact remains thatcher was elected through democratic process. Scargill used anti democratic means to try and bring down an elected institution.

Scargill reminds me of Field Marshall Haig in the Great War. A dispassionate obsessive who saw her own troops as dispensable commodities while sitting back well away from the battle enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

When these dreadful anti democrats leave this earth I suspect their political enemies will ultimately treat their passing with respect. I think that shows class and dignity.

The spiteful ill informed drivel that has come since thatchers passing undermines us as a nation.



Whilst not wishing to argue about politics....Thought the above(With a change to her instead of his)
Fits Septic very well!

 

[Jack Griffin]

Scargill reminds me of Field Marshall Haig in the Great War. A dispassionate obsessive who saw his own troops as dispensable commodities while sitting back well away from the battle enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

Haig was employing the tactics of the time which resulted an awful slaughter on all sides. Terraine argued that he pursued the only viable winning strategy, that of attrition, no one else found a better one!

He was very involved in the British Legion after WWI & spent most of his later years devoted to ex servicemen's welfare.

Another argument where the realities differ with popular conceptions.

Haig was given a state funeral BTW.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

You should wash your mouth out with soap. You clearly are not very intelligent or you would understand having respect for the office of Prime Minister. For achieving such high office and to lead your country is deserving of respect in itself. You can loath MT all you want and I don't give a dam but I will respect your opinion.

Just the basic human respect for the dead who have passed on and had their time would be the correct thing to do.

These 'parties' are just bunches of lefty sheep having a laugh at the dead and show no remorse or respect for the dead person or their family. Disgraceful behaviour.

You are nothing short of contemptible. Your ideology is flawed and you lack the brains to figure it out based purely on your own back ground. Insular and pathetic.

Let me tell you back in the mid '80s I was on the dole. I sold everything I had to put into a risky venture, lived off bacon sandwiches for the most part and found ways to get stuff done for little cost and begged and borrowed and and got help from tradesman and suppliers who believed in me. I lived in a caravan for months with a car that was on it's knees. I made that business a great success. To suggest someone like me was 'obviously not on the bread line' again is in itself disrespectful. Stop judging people ass hole!

I know plenty of working class who always voted for MT. I know plenty who vote labour who based on class you would have thought otherwise. MT didn't create division it's people like you that do that.

Seriously mate-go fuck yourself will you? How dare a twat like you to tell me to wash my mouth out? You are ignorant to the circumstances of millions that suffered thanks to that bitch. Fuck right off.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Originally Posted by Paxman II You should wash your mouth out with soap. You clearly are not very intelligent or you would understand having respect for the office of Prime Minister. For achieving such high office and to lead your country is deserving of respect in itself. You can loath MT all you want and I don't give a dam but I will respect your opinion.

Just the basic human respect for the dead who have passed on and had their time would be the correct thing to do.

These 'parties' are just bunches of lefty sheep having a laugh at the dead and show no remorse or respect for the dead person or their family. Disgraceful behaviour.

You are nothing short of contemptible. Your ideology is flawed and you lack the brains to figure it out based purely on your own back ground. Insular and pathetic.

Let me tell you back in the mid '80s I was on the dole. I sold everything I had to put into a risky venture, lived off bacon sandwiches for the most part and found ways to get stuff done for little cost and begged and borrowed and and got help from tradesman and suppliers who believed in me. I lived in a caravan for months with a car that was on it's knees. I made that business a great success. To suggest someone like me was 'obviously not on the bread line' again is in itself disrespectful. Stop judging people ass hole!

I know plenty of working class who always voted for MT. I know plenty who vote labour who based on class you would have thought otherwise. MT didn't create division it's people like you that do that.






All that I can say is...come down to South Wales with what you've written, and see if you get back to England in one piece....She totally fucked up a "Way of life" Something that was one of only a few ways to earn money to feed and clothe their families. Whilst you're at it, don't go up to the North East either.:facepalm:

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Paxman11 says...............................
Stop judging people ass hole!

I know plenty of working class who always voted for MT............I know plenty who vote labour who based on class you would have thought otherwise. MT didn't create division it's people like you that do that.







Isn't it exactly that what you're doing?

 

[Grendel]

Seriously mate-go feck yourself will you? How dare a twat like you to tell me to wash my mouth out? You are ignorant to the circumstances of millions that suffered thanks to that bitch. feck right off.

Just out of interest how are you qualified to be a moderator on this forum?

Vile offensive abuse is hardly necessary is it?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Just out of interest how are you qualified to be a moderator on this forum?

Vile offensive abuse is hardly necessary is it?

Of course, you've never been Vile, offensive, or abusive have you Grenduffy!

 

[deanocity3]

Originally Posted by Grendel Political motivation played a part on both sides.

The fact remains thatcher was elected through democratic process. Scargill used anti democratic means to try and bring down an elected institution.

Scargill reminds me of Field Marshall Haig in the Great War. A dispassionate obsessive who saw her own troops as dispensable commodities while sitting back well away from the battle enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

When these dreadful anti democrats leave this earth I suspect their political enemies will ultimately treat their passing with respect. I think that shows class and dignity.

The spiteful ill informed drivel that has come since thatchers passing undermines us as a nation.



Whilst not wishing to argue about politics....Thought the above(With a change to her instead of his)
Fits Septic very well!

Haig he opened cov war memorial park in 1927
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/earl-haig-unveils-war-memorial/query/coventry+haig

 

[torchomatic]

It's not difficult, it's simple. Thatcher was an evil bitch who lacked basic emotions like compassion. No tears for her in my house.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

It's not difficult, it's simple. Thatcher was an evil bitch who lacked basic emotions like compassion. No tears for her in my house.

Bugger me!!!.......................Finally we agree on something.

 

[Ashdown1]

No tears in my house either but certainly no classless celebrations of any kind.

 

[WillieStanley]

No tears in my house either but certainly no classless celebrations of any kind.

Surely to criticise those who "Rejoice" over Thatchers death isn't very... um... Thatcher-like?

 

[Deleted member 4439]

A celebration that both sides seem to be okay with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqS0xSDG0V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iASvN23nY5M

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Can I just say its nice to see different 'allegiances' from the usual 'Sisu/ACL battle lines' on this thread.

Whatever your view on her, can anyone really justify ANY politician having a public funded state funeral? It is bound to be divisive and be used by current politicians (on both siddes) for their own purposes.
The family should just make their own arrangements in a dignified way - like the rest of us.

 

[dongonzalos]

Maggie has created some strange alliances on here.

And broken some of the strongest partnerships

 

[Grendel]

Can I just say its nice to see different 'allegiances' from the usual 'Sisu/ACL battle lines' on this thread.

Whatever your view on her, can anyone really justify ANY politician having a public funded state funeral? It is bound to be divisive and be used by current politicians (on both siddes) for their own purposes.
The family should just make their own arrangements in a dignified way - like the rest of us.

The funeral was agreed in advance by the last Labour government

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

The funeral was agreed in advance by the last Labour government

You sure? (and I'm no fan of Labour btw)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/aug/02/harrietharman.margaretthatcher

 

[Grendel]

You sure? (and I'm no fan of Labour btw)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/aug/02/harrietharman.margaretthatcher

To be fair I'm not. However on the politics show on 5 live at 7 tonight the political correspondent John Pinaar stated as such and a labour mp did not deny it.

 

[torchomatic]

its like playing football in No Man's Land on Christmas Day.

Can I just say its nice to see different 'allegiances' from the usual 'Sisu/ACL battle lines' on this thread.

Whatever your view on her, can anyone really justify ANY politician having a public funded state funeral? It is bound to be divisive and be used by current politicians (on both siddes) for their own purposes.
The family should just make their own arrangements in a dignified way - like the rest of us.

 

[sky blue john]

MT was in power during my youth at a time when i was more interested in getting laid.
But what i do know their are enough people apposed and hold a grudge against her actions and policies.
So it shows to me how out of touch with reality this government is to allow a state funeral !!

 

[luwalla]

Maggie has created some strange alliances on here.

And broken some of the strongest partnerships

so pretty much the same as she did when prime minister then..

 

[Skyblue4u]

If it hadn't of been for Thatcher you'd all be living in mud huts these days under a looney labour government with hyper inflation.

A lot of idiots mouthing off and protesting about her weren't even born or were young children when she was in power. Says it all really

 

[ajsccfc]

It's political correctness gone MAD.

 

[torchomatic]

Bollocks. We'd still have a manufacturing industry, social housing for those that need it and we wouldn't be importing 60M tonnes of coal a year. The police at Hillsborough would also have been taken to task too.

I was around so I know what it was like and how tough it was in the early 80s. Without Thatcher we have a more compassionate Britain not obsessed with "me, me, me".

Horrible, horrible woman.

If it hadn't of been for Thatcher you'd all be living in mud huts these days under a looney labour government with hyper inflation.

A lot of idiots mouthing off and protesting about her weren't even born or were young children when she was in power. Says it all really

 

[Ashdown1]

Bollocks. We'd still have a manufacturing industry, social housing for those that need it and we wouldn't be importing 60M tonnes of coal a year. The police at Hillsborough would also have been taken to task too.

I was around so I know what it was like and how tough it was in the early 80s. Without Thatcher we have a more compassionate Britain not obsessed with "me, me, me".

Horrible, horrible woman.

You couldn't guarantee any of those things. Competition, technology and big business from abroad has dictated most of those negatives. The Brits had largely stopped investing in our industries just as the Japs and Germans pumped in everything they had. As for Hillsborough, who knows what would have happened under Labour, its all conjecture. This country is suffering due to other countries abusing and exploiting their large populations in order to manufacture so cheaply, manipulation of currency exchanges and inflation etc is what we combat now.

 

[Skyblue4u]

Bollocks. We'd still have a manufacturing industry, social housing for those that need it and we wouldn't be importing 60M tonnes of coal a year. The police at Hillsborough would also have been taken to task too.

I was around so I know what it was like and how tough it was in the early 80s. Without Thatcher we have a more compassionate Britain not obsessed with "me, me, me".

Horrible, horrible woman.

Its hardly thatchers fault that British industry was uncompetitive and nationalized firms were public money black holes. Something had to be done and thatcher had the balls.

The unions needed sorting out as they were wrecking British industry not thatcher. Scargil
Destroyed the coal industry in this country.

I agree with you that council housing should have never been sold of though. It makes me mad people buy a house cheap then sell it on a few years later for a small fortune.

 

[torchomatic]

OK, so no guarantee, but I would wager a bloody good chance. There's no denying (well, for some there is) Thatcher destroyed industry.

This country IS suffering due to Thatcher's policies: the social housing shortage (71% of council houses were sold to people living in them). Was the money used to build more homes? No it was used to pay debt, so that policy only benefited those who bought their council house. What about the local communities affected along with generations of families because she crushed the miners? It's a FACT that we import 60M tonnes of coal a year into Britain directly because of her actions. It's a scandal.

What about privatisation? British Gas, British Telecom, British Petroleum, British Airways, British Steel, water and electricity companies. There's a famous quote from a Tory at the time who said something like "if it moved, we privatised it". All privatisation did was make those firms put their shareholders before their customers. Still happens today.

Her absolute refusal to negotiate in Northern Ireland led to more deaths and more suffering.

I could go on and on. Usually, those who side with Thatcher are rich (or comfortable) enough for her policies not to affect them.

You couldn't guarantee any of those things. Competition, technology and big business from abroad has dictated most of those negatives. The Brits had largely stopped investing in our industries just as the Japs and Germans pumped in everything they had. As for Hillsborough, who knows what would have happened under Labour, its all conjecture. This country is suffering due to other countries abusing and exploiting their large populations in order to manufacture so cheaply, manipulation of currency exchanges and inflation etc is what we combat now.