With and Without DMC (1 Viewer)

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

What's the win rate with him compared to without him?

Hate to bring it up, but it was not his finishing, it was his creativity upfront. Baker and Moussa at times look lost without him. They just don't get the service that they used to.

We need a striker like the Marlons, the Kevin Phillips etc, someone who can finish. They don't need pace, height/strength, just finishing technique. Exactly like Le Fondre, not the best of players, but certainly knows how to put the ball between the jumpers.

Also, what's Elliotts goal per game ratio compared to Codys (this season)? Anyone know?

WONDERLAMPS · Feb 10, 2013

Clarke has the finishing technique that you just mentioned 11 goals for scunthope in between august and december is a good goal return

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

FRY-CCFC said:
Clarke has the finishing technique that you just mentioned 11 goals for sc-unithope in between august and december is a good goal return

Sadly, I'm not sure he does.

Look at his goals for us, the one in the JPT V Preston, open goal from yards out. The couple against Sheff both in the box, one of them an open goal.
Preston away, albeit a good touch, but the keeper should of done better and it was 3 yards out.
Compare them to some of McGolds beuts...

Covstu · Feb 10, 2013

I don't think anyone is saying that DMC is a better player but we never owned him, we borrowed him so let him go!!!

Otis · Feb 10, 2013

As I have said many a time. with DMC it wasn't just his goals, it was his movement too. His ability to create space for others.

I recall getting shot down by a few on here when I suggested a lot of goals from other areas of our team was partially down to the fact that DMC's intelligence and runs was creating space for others to score.

If you look at the last two games, we have had 29 and 19 shots on goal, but very few crystal clear cut chances. We have been crowded out in and around the penalty area and the opposition have thrown bodies in our way.

With DMC we were simply getting a lot more space. in and around the box. Clarke is more of a goal poacher who feeds off ball in and around the penalty box, DMC was a much more rounded player who created space and openings from outside the box as well as in and around it.

Without DMC we simply now have to rely on space being created by either killer through balls, the dribbling of Baker or McSheff or by getting to the byline to get balls across the box. Yesterday most of the crosses were coming from too deep positions.

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

We haven't battered any teams since, like we did with DMC.

Going forward we're not as exciting, it doesn't feel like we're going to score.

At Donny and Stevenage, you felt that we were going to score, or at least one every couple of chances. Now, we go forward, we get set plays and we never look like scoring.

Otis · Feb 10, 2013

Because we are crowded out. We have 2 players in their penalty area to their 4 or 5. We are not creating enough space and players aren't getting the clear openings they were previously.

Grendel · Feb 10, 2013

pusbccfc said:
Sadly, I'm not sure he does.

Look at his goals for us, the one in the JPT V Preston, open goal from yards out. The couple against Sheff both in the box, one of them an open goal.
Preston away, albeit a good touch, but the keeper should of done better and it was 3 yards out.
Compare them to some of McGolds beuts...

Oh dear....you originally said you wanted a goal poacher like Kevin Phillips - now you want someone who scores goals outside the box.

Clarke averages a goal every 1.5 games in this league -- that is 30 goals in a season.

Otis · Feb 10, 2013

We just need to play a different way with Clarke. They are both goalscorers, but a different breed. We need to adapt our game accordingly.

Clarke looks odds on to bag 20 goals this season. That will be an excellent return.

coundonskyblue · Feb 10, 2013

Theres nothing wrong with having a poacher type forward, in fact its what we've been missing. How many times have we seen a long range shot come in, the keeper spills it and then there is no one around to tap it in?

The problem with yesterdays game was that LC spent most of his time out by the corner flags. I seemed to have spent most of the game shouting get in the box!

Steve.B50 · Feb 10, 2013

Lets just accept he is our player and we have to play with what we have not with who has gone.
Robbins knows what he is doing let trust in him.
Ok so we are going through a blip but if you look at how things are now to what they were it much better. I honestly believe that if Robbins had been in charge 5 games earlier we would be top three.
I for one and in this for the long haul and will support the team regardless

Grendel · Feb 10, 2013

pusbccfc said:
What's the win rate with him compared to without him?

With DMC in the team for 22 games we totalled 35 points

Without him in the team we have 13 points from 7 games

So marginally better without him in the team

Hate to bring it up, but it was not his finishing, it was his creativity upfront. Baker and Moussa at times look lost without him. They just don't get the service that they used to.

This is your perception it is not reality

We need a striker like the Marlons, the Kevin Phillips etc, someone who can finish. They don't need pace, height/strength, just finishing technique. Exactly like Le Fondre, not the best of players, but certainly knows how to put the ball between the jumpers.

Are you sure? I thought you want a player like McGoldrick - you seem confused

Also, what's Elliotts goal per game ratio compared to Codys (this season)? Anyone know?

McDonald - 1 goal in 12 games (2 if you include an own goal)

Elliot - 4 goals in 15 games

Clarke - 15 goals in 20 games

Not your day is it?

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

Grendel said:
Oh dear....you originally said you wanted a goal poacher like Kevin Phillips - now you want someone who scores goals outside the box.

Clarke averages a goal every 1.5 games in this league -- that is 30 goals in a season.

You look at the goals marlon scored, many 1 on 1s, Clarkes missed plenty of them.
Look at some of Le Fondres goals, Leon Clarke would never score some of them.
I haven't seen him really challenge the keeper often.

Whereas the Marlons, Phillips and DMs they test the keeper, get into positions.

Clarkes 5 goals haven't shown to me he's a good finisher, just luck in my opinion.

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

Grendel said:
Not your day is it?

Add cup games to that you have another goal for Cody and you could add a few more games to Elliotts...

Grendel · Feb 10, 2013

pusbccfc said:
You look at the goals marlon scored, many 1 on 1s, Clarkes missed plenty of them.
Look at some of Le Fondres goals, Leon Clarke would never score some of them.
I haven't seen him really challenge the keeper often.

Whereas the Marlons, Phillips and DMs they test the keeper, get into positions.

Clarkes 5 goals haven't shown to me he's a good finisher, just luck in my opinion.

He has scored 35 goals in this league 20 this season - our ratio of points is marginally better than when McGoldrick was here. Phillips was a penalty box scorer - nothing like King.

Clarke will score 30 goals if he plays 46 games if the average is maintained - I would take that luck.

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

To add to what I've said... How many goals has Baker scored since DMC left...

1 isn't it?

Grendel · Feb 10, 2013

pusbccfc said:
Add cup games to that you have another goal for Cody and you could add a few more games to Elliotts...

No its 2 goals the other was an own goal,

You seem to be scoring a lot of own goals today.

Don't you want a striker with a scoring rate of 2 in every 3 games?

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

Grendel said:
He has scored 35 goals in this league 20 this season - our ratio of points is marginally better than when McGoldrick was here. Phillips was a penalty box scorer - nothing like King.

Clarke will score 30 goals if he plays 46 games if the average is maintained - I would take that luck.

But overall what I'm saying is Clarke isn't what McGoldrick was to us.

I don't think Clarkes too bad, I just believe with out McGoldrick we've struggled.

pusbccfc · Feb 10, 2013

Grendel said:
No its 2 goals the other was an own goal,

You seem to be scoring a lot of own goals today.

Don't you want a striker with a scoring rate of 2 in every 3 games?

Yes but I'm not Comparing Cody to Clarke, I'm comparing Cody to Elliott.

Cody has in my opinion 3 goals in all Comps.
Elliott has what? 4/5?

What I'm saying out of that is, Elliott isn't setting the world alight in front of goal when you compare it to someone people have and still do slate from previous games earlier on.

stupot07 · Feb 10, 2013

I'm not blaming Clarke but he is a different type of striker and we have changed the way we play to try and suit him, this has had an effect on both the goal scored and points gained in the league

Goals scored (league) when mcgoldrick was here - 38 goals in 19 league games - 2 per game. Points 34 - 1.79 points per game, DMC scored 42% of the goals

Goals scored (league) since mcgoldrick has left - 7 in 6 league games - 1.16 per game. Points 10 (3W, 1D 2L) - 1.67 points per game, Clarke scored 57% of the goals

We need to learn how to best play to his strengths and how others can get into the right areas to start contributing goals.

skybluesam66 · Feb 10, 2013

i would go for a marlon type on loan from now till the end of the season £10k per week = £130k

if we can overturn Crewe = £1m
if we get to the play off semis = £750k
if we get to the play off final £1.75m
if we get to the championship £1.75m + next seasons increased revenue

its got to be worth a gamble

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Feb 10, 2013

stupot07 said:
I'm not blaming Clarke but he is a different type of striker and we have changed the way we play to try and suit him, this has had an effect on both the goal scored and points gained in the league

Goals scored (league) when mcgoldrick was here - 38 goals in 19 league games - 2 per game. Points 34 - 1.79 points per game, DMC scored 42% of the goals

Goals scored (league) since mcgoldrick has left - 7 in 6 league games - 1.16 per game. Points 10 (3W, 1D 2L) - 1.67 points per game, Clarke scored 57% of the goals

We need to learn how to best play to his strengths and how others can get into the right areas to start contributing goals.

He isn't good enough to play on his own from what I have seen. Link up play doesn't seem good enough, isn't fast enough off the mark to get in behind

I'd either try Elliott uptop by himself or put 2 upfront

SkyBlueSlat · Feb 10, 2013

Clarke is too lazy. Reminds me a lot of when Jay Bothroyd played for us. Flashes of genuine skill but too half-hearted in tackles, headers and winning balls. Great in the box for tap ins and re-bounds but not really interested in getting involved and creating chances for himself and others. Clarke will score goals but only if they're offered on a plate. he's not a suitable replacement for McG IMO.

SkyBlueSwiss · Feb 10, 2013

Otis said:
As I have said many a time. with DMC it wasn't just his goals, it was his movement too. His ability to create space for others.

I recall getting shot down by a few on here when I suggested a lot of goals from other areas of our team was partially down to the fact that DMC's intelligence and runs was creating space for others to score.

If you look at the last two games, we have had 29 and 19 shots on goal, but very few crystal clear cut chances. We have been crowded out in and around the penalty area and the opposition have thrown bodies in our way.

With DMC we were simply getting a lot more space. in and around the box. Clarke is more of a goal poacher who feeds off ball in and around the penalty box, DMC was a much more rounded player who created space and openings from outside the box as well as in and around it.

Without DMC we simply now have to rely on space being created by either killer through balls, the dribbling of Baker or McSheff or by getting to the byline to get balls across the box. Yesterday most of the crosses were coming from too deep positions.

Otis speaks truly. In other words, McG was a footballer with all-round brain and ability, Clark is a carthorse in comparison, and one that does not appear to want to put in the effort that McG did for most of his games.
I just wonder if McG is going to come good at the higher level. He is not scoring goals, but the Ipswich fans seem to be appreciating his off-ball game.

SkyBlueSwiss · Feb 10, 2013

Grendel said:
Oh dear....you originally said you wanted a goal poacher like Kevin Phillips - now you want someone who scores goals outside the box.

Clarke averages a goal every 1.5 games in this league -- that is 30 goals in a season.

No he doesn't - for us. Again, what he did elsewhere is irelevant to our club. He is averaging 0.33 for us since signing, not the 1 gaol every 1.5 games you quote. He won't score 30 goals for US this season. He won't score 20 for US this season. At his current rate, he won't even score 10 goals for US this season. It is what he is doing for US that matters, not what he did elswhere.
He could have been top scorer in the premier averaging 5 goals per game for all I care, but what does that matter if he then comes to us and doesn't do the job?

Steve.B50 · Feb 10, 2013

But he is no longer a City player, so lets just get behind the ones we have.
In Robins we trust.

Grendel · Feb 10, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
No he doesn't - for us. Again, what he did elsewhere is irelevant to our club. He is averaging 0.33 for us since signing, not the 1 gaol every 1.5 games you quote. He won't score 30 goals for US this season. He won't score 20 for US this season. At his current rate, he won't even score 10 goals for US this season. It is what he is doing for US that matters, not what he did elswhere.
He could have been top scorer in the premier averaging 5 goals per game for all I care, but what does that matter if he then comes to us and doesn't do the job?

er he's scored 4 league goals for us in 6 starts. So that average is for us.

Tom's Dad · Feb 10, 2013

Over 70% of goals are scored in a box the width of the 6 yard box extended out to the penalty spot. Teams against us are backing this space with bodies so we need to adapt our game to pull those bodies out and/or create space. The last two games we've done neither which is why so many shots are coming in from further out that hit bodies.

I see the solution as either more short runs, changes of direction by the strikers interchanging with the wide players or, get any early goal which has to pull the opposition forward if they want something fom the game.

Lord_Nampil · Feb 10, 2013

Tom's Dad said:
Over 70% of goals are scored in a box the width of the 6 yard box extended out to the penalty spot. Teams against us are backing this space with bodies so we need to adapt our game to pull those bodies out and/or create space. The last two games we've done neither which is why so many shots are coming in from further out that hit bodies.

I see the solution as either more short runs, changes of direction by the strikers interchanging with the wide players or, get any early goal which has to pull the opposition forward if they want something fom the game.

The problem is we have tried to walk the ball into the net, and as you have said the 6 yard box is crammed full of players making the perfect goal impossible! What we need to do is have more "meaningful shots" ones that test the keeper, yesterday we didn't have one that really tested him, all the shots rolled back to him make easy saves every time! Clarke's game is different to any striker we have had in recent year, instead of want a ball into space he wants balls to feet or his body and at the moment we have only found out that is how he likes the ball on 2 occasions (against Preston and Sheffield United) we need to realize that's how we need to use him and if we do that we will get the best out of him which should bring the best out of the 11 players on the pitch!

As for walking the ball in the net, that's something we need to change, the keeper's in this league are average at best (i think Murphy is the best IMO) and without testing them rebounds etc can't be converted and how did Clarke score the winning goal against Sheffield United..... Its the Decision making that's cost in the last 180 minutes of football, and that's what Robins needs to work on this week before the massive game against Bury at the weekend!

SkyBlueSwiss · Feb 10, 2013

grendel said:
er he's scored 4 league goals for us in 6 starts. So that average is for us.

huh?????????

Mucca Mad Boys · Feb 10, 2013

We are crossing the ball too much instead of our wingers cutting in to shoot etc.

stupot07 · Feb 10, 2013

SkyBlue_Taylor said:
We are crossing the ball too much instead of our wingers cutting in to shoot etc.

Were you actually there yesterday? All baker did was cut in and shoot.

Otis · Feb 10, 2013

Very true.

Moff · Feb 10, 2013

Sorry to be rude, but whats the point still harping on about McGoldrick...hes gone, move on.
Shall we do a comparison between Thorn and robins next?

People keep talking about him, and naming players like Phillips and Marlon. I dont know if anyone had noticed but they are picking up large wages, which we cant afford, and playing in a higher league and not against Yeovil, Bury and Hartlepool. We cant attract these better quality players due to our status, so a player like Clarke, who scores but perhaps doesnt move like McGoldrick does, or have his pace or vision, is what we have to accept.

Otis · Feb 10, 2013

Moff said:
Sorry to be rude, but whats the point still harping on about McGoldrick...hes gone, move on.
Shall we do a comparison between Thorn and robins next?

People keep talking about him, and naming players like Phillips and Marlon. I dont know if anyone had noticed but they are picking up large wages, which we cant afford, and playing in a higher league and not against Yeovil, Bury and Hartlepool. We cant attract these better quality players due to our status, so a player like Clarke, who scores but perhaps doesnt move like McGoldrick does, or have his pace or vision, is what we have to accept.

Oh yes, please let's do. Never broached that one before at all!

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