Why is CT quoting Byng? (1 Viewer)

[skybluebal]

I don't understand why Byng seems to be regularly reported in the CT. If i recall he (the consortium he is "working" for to be correct) never put in a bid. Just a lot of hot air and yet now he wants the CCC to sell to SISU. Is this news? Why does the CT report this at all?

Shouldn't he be putting together a package to buy-out SISU and buy the Ricoh?

Suspicious or not?

 

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[edgy]

As he said a few months back, he'll be interested when the stadium & club are one.

 

[The Bear]

I think the consortium are interested in other development deals in the area too.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Why couldn't he buy the two separately?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

As he said a few months back, he'll be interested when the stadium & club are one.

OK anytime soon then, Byng Boy use your supposed financial muscle and make it happen waiting around for ACL / CCC / SISU /FL to make it happen we will all be 6 feet under

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

I think Bing is full of bluster, his comments keep his profile up in the media nothing more, the man could not even use a fax if my recollection is correct. NOPM

 

[Godiva]

Why couldn't he buy the two separately?

Because he won't like the risk of getting one and then be unable to acquire the other.
Fx if he buys the club there's a risk CCc won't sell the freehold (which is what Byng would be after).
Or if he buys the freehold there's a good chance sisu would set a price tag of £70m on the club.

 

[hill83]

I think Bing is full of bluster, his comments keep his profile up in the media nothing more, the man could not even use a fax if my recollection is correct. NOPM

Hmmmmm, 'Bluster'.

Timbo?

 

[duffer]

Sits next to Tim at Sixfields. Couldn't put together a credible bid because of problem with email. Demands Council sell Arena.

I suspect either a plant, or a dreamer. Other than appearing in the media from time to time he's done nothing to appear even vaguely plausible.

I'd tend to agree if we're going to sell the Ricoh it should go on the open market for anyone who wants to put it to any use, either for development or as a stadium, or both. If SISU are the highest bidder, then fair enough, imho it's now about maximising return to the taxpayers.

However, from a council perspective, where's the rush? If they wait a year it could be that the club will have different owners who may see things in an entirely different light, or the Ricoh actually does turn a profit even without the club, as claimed. If not, what's really lost - land isn't getting any cheaper.

As for losing between £50million and £125m to the City's economy - seriously? There's a claim badly in need of a challenge.

 

[RPHunt]

Maybe they are quoting Byng because Dhinsa was unavailable.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Because he won't like the risk of getting one and then be unable to acquire the other.
Fx if he buys the club there's a risk CCc won't sell the freehold (which is what Byng would be after).
Or if he buys the freehold there's a good chance sisu would set a price tag of £70m on the club.

I can see your point and lets face it, who could deny either could end up happening?!

However surely if I purchased the Arena/ACL then it's not the worst thing in the world if the deal falls through with the club (obviously it's better if it didn't).

I'd own a 32,609 seat multi purpose stadium (or the long term lease to it) along with a big indoor arena, hotel, casino ect. I'd make more money if I owned a team to play there but it's doubtful I'd lose out.

Plus there's the possibility of the land around there. There's a lot that, that side of the City lacks in terms of leisure facilities.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Sits next to Tim at Sixfields. Couldn't put together a credible bid because of problem with email. Demands Council sell Arena.

That's interesting, looks like Byng & his investors are after the same prize. The media campaign both of them are pushing is "ACL/CCC/Higgs must sell to SISU".. it is pretty transparent what they are after.

I agree with Duffer, ACL's best strategy is to let SISU sweat for the time being & see what the books look like at the end of the year. I'm pretty convinced that will continue for the foreseeable, if OTIUM actually purchase land & submit a planning application the game may change, but I see no one budging an inch till that happens.

 

[Godiva]

I can see your point and lets face it, who could deny either could end up happening?!

However surely if I purchased the Arena/ACL then it's not the worst thing in the world if the deal falls through with the club (obviously it's better if it didn't).

I'd own a 32,609 seat multi purpose stadium (or the long term lease to it) along with a big indoor arena, hotel, casino ect. I'd make more money if I owned a team to play there but it's doubtful I'd lose out.

Plus there's the possibility of the land around there. There's a lot that, that side of the City lacks in terms of leisure facilities.

The key would then be the development of the surrounding land. Wouldn't that to some extend depend on there being a football club drafting in some 300.000 punters per year?

I would be sceptical about the viability of the existing businesses like the casino if the club finds a new permanent home.
I believe there is too many 'ifs' for any investor to buy the Ricoh without the club. Maybe in five years if the Ricoh and the businesses there are thriving without the football club and when all the bad publicity has gone ... but not before.

But my personal fear is the ricoh and the businesses there have entered a downward spiral - not unlike what happened to the club under Richardson. A slight downward slide at the beginning, but in a couple of years gaining momentum. Unstoppable momemtum.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

As for losing between £50million and £125m to the City's economy - seriously? There's a claim badly in need of a challenge.

Well, I suppose there's 10k potential consumers lost in the local economy straight away on a fortnightly basis, less people going in Tescos and other shops, think travel, trains and other e.g taxi it all adds up I'm sure there's there's other things to be factored in.

Personally I think that figure is a bit vague and less than I would've imagined, but I don't know what maths he's done

 

[mds]

As for losing between £50million and £125m to the City's economy - seriously? There's a claim badly in need of a challenge.

That is plausible, when you consider all the all the costs involved, money spent on everything to do with each home game, whether its 1.50 on a bus there or 5.00 for a meal at burger king, or a pint or two before and after each game it adds up and adds up to a hell of a lot of money. To the economy, not SISU, not the club, to local business, every penny spent by every person that has anything to do with the match/s, snacks at half time paying staff wages giving them money to spend, it all adds up.
Very plausible.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Because he won't like the risk of getting one and then be unable to acquire the other.
Fx if he buys the club there's a risk CCc won't sell the freehold (which is what Byng would be after).
Or if he buys the freehold there's a good chance sisu would set a price tag of £70m on the club.

I agree to a point. Think the main problem is that SISU (in whatever guide - it seems to be JS at SISU who is the decision-maker) only appear to be willing to sell at a premium price (probably almost as much as the darned stadium itself), & if anyone bought the stadium the club's price would be inflated further.

 

[skybluepete1987]

I just don't see any value or benefit in giving Byng any more airtime, clearly a fantasist who's decided to get involved to try and raise his profile. If you were a wealthy Chinese businessman would you want someone like Michael Byng acting for your interests or would you examine a deal in a straight forward and either do it or not?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I just don't see any value or benefit in giving Byng any more airtime, clearly a fantasist who's decided to get involved to try and raise his profile. If you were a wealthy Chinese businessman would you want someone like Michael Byng acting for your interests or would you examine a deal in a straight forward and either do it or not?

Therein lies a lot of the problem. Neither club nor stadium purchase is straightforward in any way. Too many fingers in both pies.

 

[skybluepete1987]

Therein lies a lot of the problem. Neither club nor stadium purchase is straightforward in any way. Too many fingers in both pies.

Agreed, but introducing a profile-hungry local businessman into the mix hardly improves things. The Telegraph and Les Reid appear desperate to find a third angle to the story when it really doesn't exist since the Haskell bid failed. Tiresome to dress this man's opinions up as 'developments'.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Agreed, but introducing a profile-hungry local businessman into the mix hardly improves things. The Telegraph and Les Reid appear desperate to find a third angle to the story when it really doesn't exist since the Haskell bid failed. Tiresome to dress this man's opinions up as 'developments'.

We just don't know really though. The only reason I can see he would be sitting with TF & co at Sickfields is that he's up to something - which is likely to be beneficial for SISU. It might be their way out, it might not be.

 

[duffer]

That is plausible, when you consider all the all the costs involved, money spent on everything to do with each home game, whether its 1.50 on a bus there or 5.00 for a meal at burger king, or a pint or two before and after each game it adds up and adds up to a hell of a lot of money. To the economy, not SISU, not the club, to local business, every penny spent by every person that has anything to do with the match/s, snacks at half time paying staff wages giving them money to spend, it all adds up.
Very plausible.

Even if the 10,000 people did nothing but sit at home every weekend for the twenty odd games, which clearly they don't, where does 50 - 125m come from?

The truth surely is that a significant proportion still spend some money hereabouts on a Saturday, indeed they might even increase their discretionary spend given 8500 people now have an extra 20 quid or so kicking around each fortnight.

It's a completely made up figure imho, simply designed to try to increase pressure on the council. I don't see any effort at a real analysis here, sorry.

 

[duffer]

The key would then be the development of the surrounding land. Wouldn't that to some extend depend on there being a football club drafting in some 300.000 punters per year?

I would be sceptical about the viability of the existing businesses like the casino if the club finds a new permanent home.
I believe there is too many 'ifs' for any investor to buy the Ricoh without the club. Maybe in five years if the Ricoh and the businesses there are thriving without the football club and when all the bad publicity has gone ... but not before.

But my personal fear is the ricoh and the businesses there have entered a downward spiral - not unlike what happened to the club under Richardson. A slight downward slide at the beginning, but in a couple of years gaining momentum. Unstoppable momemtum.

I can't see why development of the land depends on the club being there, indeed it might be worth more as something entirely different, like housing or commercial.

It might be that the Ricoh businesses are in decline, but I don't think either the exhibition or the casino side of the place is reliant on the footfall from a League one team every couple of weeks. At the moment there's no evidence either way, is there?

The best way to find the market value of something is to sell it, but I don't think there's any real need to sell at the moment for ACL, hence the lobbying.

 

[mds]

Even if the 10,000 people did nothing but sit at home every weekend for the twenty odd games, which clearly they don't, where does 50 - 125m come from?

The truth surely is that a significant proportion still spend some money hereabouts on a Saturday, indeed they might even increase their discretionary spend given 8500 people now have an extra 20 quid or so kicking around each fortnight.

It's a completely made up figure imho, simply designed to try to increase pressure on the council. I don't see any effort at a real analysis here, sorry.

yes a small proportion may well still spend a little, they may also choose to go out of town shopping, put it towards a holiday or just save it. but 10-15k average and 15-20k if were playing well is a lot of people spending over the course of a year!

You put petrol in your car, you buy a bus ticket train ticket, a bar of chocolate, a pint or two, whatever money spent in the process of going to the home game is money to the local economy!
Simplified but realistic, i think 50m over the course of a season easy.

 

[lewys33]

Let's be realistic here - it is all PR.

JS says she wants a return on her investment. So for arguments sake - she says there has been £60million invested in CCFC. she buys the ricoh for £40 million (completely made up figure)

Is anyone then going to pay £100+ million for club and stadium? of which £60 million is the club? SISU are not going anywhere fast. My personal opinion is JS would rather liquidate than lose all that money by admitting defeat and selling cheap.

 

[Cheshire Sky Blue]

Let's be realistic here - it is all PR.

JS says she wants a return on her investment. So for arguments sake - she says there has been £60million invested in CCFC. she buys the ricoh for £40 million (completely made up figure)

Is anyone then going to pay £100+ million for club and stadium? of which £60 million is the club? SISU are not going anywhere fast. My personal opinion is JS would rather liquidate than lose all that money by admitting defeat and selling cheap.

If JS liquidates the Club she losses everything, so don't think she will do that. I predict she will sell (For an undisclosed fee) We have to remember that whilst they are now having to fund a loss making team and they may well have invested a sum above revenues, the bulk of the £60+ million she claims to have invested is wooden dollars moved around within SISU. Its not all real. She will get out at some point, this must be the hardest gig she and Timmy have taken on and will be taking them away from other easier ways to make money.

 

[lewys33]

the bulk of the £60+ million she claims to have invested is wooden dollars moved around within SISU. Its not all real.

So why would she be bothered about liquidating or not?

 

[duffer]

yes a small proportion may well still spend a little, they may also choose to go out of town shopping, put it towards a holiday or just save it. but 10-15k average and 15-20k if were playing well is a lot of people spending over the course of a year!

You put petrol in your car, you buy a bus ticket train ticket, a bar of chocolate, a pint or two, whatever money spent in the process of going to the home game is money to the local economy!
Simplified but realistic, i think 50m over the course of a season easy.

Why a small proportion? Do you sit at home on a Saturday now, doing nothing? How many do? If you go out-of-town shopping you're still spending money (possibly at Arena Park!), and you still have to put petrol in your car or catch a bus.

Again, there's no effort here at coming to this conclusion. How many people have been laid off - how many businesses have closed? Without knowing or even attempting to derive the figures then the £50m - £125m is, forgive me, a work of fiction or at best an opinion.

In which case the figure Byng came up with regarding lost value to the local economy is likely to be more about putting pressure on the Council than a reflection of reality, it seemingly being his opinion that the best thing to do is sell to SISU (probably at a loss to the taxpayer overall).

 

[duffer]

So why would she be bothered about liquidating or not?

Because if you liquidate, you get nothing. If you sell, you get something. The only reason I can see for liquidating, is if you can't sell.

It appears there might be buyers out there.

 

[lewys33]

Because if you liquidate, you get nothing. If you sell, you get something. The only reason I can see for liquidating, is if you can't sell.

It appears there might be buyers out there.

Haven't they liquidated stuff in the past? Don't you still get something? There is just a threat that you won't get anything.

 

[mds]

Im no business major, not a social or economic master, but I think i can see how there could be that kind of loss to the local economy, i guess we wll have to agree to differ duffer!

 

[duffer]

Im no business major, not a social or economic master, but I think i can see how there could be that kind of loss to the local economy, i guess we wll have to agree to differ duffer!

No problem with that. I'm used to everyone disagreeing with me, and I can see what you're saying.

At the end of the day, no one listens to either of us anyway - we're just the fans! Hope you have a good weekend, regardless of where you spend (or don't spend) your money.

 

[chiefdave]

Im no business major, not a social or economic master, but I think i can see how there could be that kind of loss to the local economy, i guess we wll have to agree to differ duffer!

I can certainly see how there would be a loss to the local economy but I'd love to see how he's arrived at those figures as they seem very high. Of course also assumes that noone who would have been at the Rioch is doing anything else and we're all just sat at home twiddling our thumbs.

 

[mds]

Ok, like i said i have no degrees in any of this just logical thinking, to me anyway
What would an average supporter spend on all things match day related? Virgin Money’s Football Fans’ Inflation Index puts this figure at over 100 pounds.
Petrol, ok, they would still use in the week, but a % is being used for the game, food, drink, consumables, memorabilia, in the winter u buy gloves n a hat from a local shop cause its frickin cold sitting there watching them, local bought, local economy. Parking fees, It all adds up.

How many people do a little overtime on a saturday we are at home, staff at the stadium (may not be earning a lot), bus, coach drivers, train drivers, extra shop staff, car park attendants, their loss of earnings is money not being spent.
Even down to the printers of the programs/tickets if there not selling there not printing, if they are local its money lost.

The list of economical losers is long, its not all about what the club is making or not, it s every other resource that would take a few pounds from the supporters and all the folks that service the supporters. It would add up to a hell of a lot of money.

Factor in every little detail, pennies in the paper shop to pounds in the pub/bookies. There is money not being made and not being spent all over the place while the City are not playing at home!

I dont have many strong points, am not qualified in any of this, but i think the baseline 50m is plausible and probably more!

Long winded repetitive, im starting to doubt myself reading it back!

 

[Monners]

Ok, like i said i have no degrees in any of this just logical thinking, to me anyway
What would an average supporter spend on all things match day related? Virgin Money’s Football Fans’ Inflation Index puts this figure at over 100 pounds.
Petrol, ok, they would still use in the week, but a % is being used for the game, food, drink, consumables, memorabilia, in the winter u buy gloves n a hat from a local shop cause its frickin cold sitting there watching them, local bought, local economy. Parking fees, It all adds up.

How many people do a little overtime on a saturday we are at home, staff at the stadium (may not be earning a lot), bus, coach drivers, train drivers, extra shop staff, car park attendants, their loss of earnings is money not being spent.
Even down to the printers of the programs/tickets if there not selling there not printing, if they are local its money lost.

The list of economical losers is long, its not all about what the club is making or not, it s every other resource that would take a few pounds from the supporters and all the folks that service the supporters. It would add up to a hell of a lot of money.

Factor in every little detail, pennies in the paper shop to pounds in the pub/bookies. There is money not being made and not being spent all over the place while the City are not playing at home!

I dont have many strong points, am not qualified in any of this, but i think the baseline 50m is plausible and probably more!

Long winded repetitive, im starting to doubt myself reading it back!

Interesting point(s). I am currently working on supply chain resilence for businesses - and it is proving to be very complex.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I generally disbelieve all these (in my jaundiced view) made up numbers that get reported - e.g. the heavy snow has cost the British economy eleventy billion pounds.....

As far as the football is concerned, I can't see much loss to the local economy except on match days.

If we take 25 as a nice round (yes, I know it's odd) number of home games in a season, that would mean that the local economy would have to lose £2m per match to get us to the £50m figure.

As has occasionally been quoted elsewhere - that's a lot of pies!