Why AT is a good manager! (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

Nick said:
Any way Thorn Lovers could give decent reasons as to why he is so good in reply to the bashers saying why he isn't?

Nick, I can.

Thorn took over a Cov team playing depressing football heading for relegation last season enjoyed a successful close to the season under his leadership, losing only one game against Boro. Coventry finished 13 points away from relegation.

SISU Then sold/released Westwood, Turner, Marlon, Gunner and now the Juke.
Thorn had to replace them with untested kids. I fail to see how in these circumstances you expect the team to improve surely the only logical thing that will happen is the team will do worse. So is it possible that by you losing all of the above you will be 13 points worse off?

Prior to this Thorn was behind getting us Keogh Westwood, Gunnarsson, Deegan, Cranie and Lukas Jutkiewicz so I think he understands footballers and getting the best out of them.

Can you explain with taking the above into consideration what Thorn could be doing better, how he can achieve it, What he is doing wrong and who can come in and make a difference?

rob9872 · Feb 19, 2012

Why is this on a new thread?

Grendel · Feb 19, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Nick, I can.

Thorn took over a Cov team playing depressing football heading for relegation last season enjoyed a successful close to the season under his leadership, losing only one game against Boro.

Doesn't the defeat against Preston count?

rob9872 · Feb 19, 2012

not necessarily disagreeing btw but so many of these

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

So why are we winning at home if our team is so rubbish? Why can we go in front of games but then lose?

None of the statements you just made actually say why thorn is a good manager though?

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

Kduffy

if that is correct then I stand corrected I went by

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Thorn_(footballer)

Grendel · Feb 19, 2012

Nick said:
So why are we winning at home if our team is so rubbish? Why can we go in front of games but then lose?

None of the statements you just made actually say why thorn is a good manager though?

Of course they don't and the facts aren't even correct either. He could at least check the record last season before posting.

Grendel · Feb 19, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Kduffy

if that is correct then I stand corrected I went by

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Thorn_(footballer)

Lost to Boro and Preston I think. Did not win any of the last 4 games and played games against a lot of teams with little to play for. Squad clearly has fell out with Boothroyd and an improvement similar to the start of his reign was always likely. Points ration identical to Boothroyds first 10 games in charge. Given all those factors the honeymoon is I think hugely exaggerated its 3 wins.

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

Nick said:
So why are we winning at home if our team is so rubbish? Why can we go in front of games but then lose?

None of the statements you just made actually say why thorn is a good manager though?

Because he took a team that was performing very badly under Boothroyd and made them succesfull and they were playing attractive football. I think that showed Thorn was a good manager. He took the same bunch of players and got them performing to their maximum. He then lost most of his best players. I think he has this current lot again performing to their best, however and it hurst me to say it this teams best may not be good enough. Lord knows I hope it will be. If Thorn is allowed to sign a few people they would make a impact look at Nimely and Norwood. Imagine if he was given a bit of money to spend. Unfortunately the only way you would ever know would be if someone else took over.

I honestedly believe if Thorn was in charge of West Ham they would be 10 points clear by now.

Out of Interest who would you have instead of Thorn and where do you think he is going wrong and where do you think this current Coventry team should be in the league.

rob9872 · Feb 19, 2012

I'll give you my slant on why Thorn COULD be a good manager:

His recent results have been better than the the first part of the season
He has the respect of his players
He has an eye for a player and therefore can spot if a player is playing well or not and whther he thinks someone has the capability to step up (whether from youth or league(s) below)

Of course without funds, without the backing of time or having a settled squad, then he will always struggle, but he is raw, has made many mistakes and he may not get the chance to prove that he has learned from those errors. The young players are now that littole bit older, stronger and more experienced.

He will probably get the bullet at the end of the season if we go down but if we could largely keep the squad and management together I think we could all come back stronger (And hopefully with new owners).

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Feb 19, 2012

They won't like the use of 'could', Rob. That shade of grey might just confuse the fuck out of what is would appear to clearly be a black and white argument.

rob9872 · Feb 19, 2012

I wanted to just type "lol" but I have to type at least ten characters! Grrrrrrrrrrr!

LOL

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

rob9872 said:
I'll give you my slant on why Thorn COULD be a good manager:

His recent results have been better than the the first part of the season
He has the respect of his players
He has an eye for a player and therefore can spot if a player is playing well or not and whther he thinks someone has the capability to step up (whether from youth or league(s) below)

Of course without funds, without the backing of time or having a settled squad, then he will always struggle, but he is raw, has made many mistakes and he may not get the chance to prove that he has learned from those errors. The young players are now that littole bit older, stronger and more experienced.

He will probably get the bullet at the end of the season if we go down but if we could largely keep the squad and management together I think we could all come back stronger (And hopefully with new owners).

Good balanced view

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Because he took a team that was performing very badly under Boothroyd and made them succesfull and they were playing attractive football. I think that showed Thorn was a good manager. He took the same bunch of players and got them performing to their maximum. He then lost most of his best players. I think he has this current lot again performing to their best, however and it hurst me to say it this teams best may not be good enough. Lord knows I hope it will be. If Thorn is allowed to sign a few people they would make a impact look at Nimely and Norwood. Imagine if he was given a bit of money to spend. Unfortunately the only way you would ever know would be if someone else took over.

I honestedly believe if Thorn was in charge of West Ham they would be 10 points clear by now.

Out of Interest who would you have instead of Thorn and where do you think he is going wrong and where do you think this current Coventry team should be in the league.

Still didn't answer the top two questions about THIS season. Apparently Boothroyd had lost the changing room, Thorn came in and allowed the players to express themselves and we had a honeymoon period.

What about this season? What decisions has he made where you have thought WOW, that has just changed the game?

Grendel · Feb 19, 2012

Nick said:
Still didn't answer the top two questions about THIS season. Apparently Boothroyd had lost the changing room, Thorn came in and allowed the players to express themselves and we had a honeymoon period.

What about this season? What decisions has he made where you have thought WOW, that has just changed the game?

and would make West Ham 10 points better off (why not 9)?

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

Nick said:
Still didn't answer the top two questions about THIS season. Apparently Boothroyd had lost the changing room, Thorn came in and allowed the players to express themselves and we had a honeymoon period.

What about this season? What decisions has he made where you have thought WOW, that has just changed the game?

I think I have answered that I think he is a good manager for the style of football he plays I have enjoyed it. The way Coventry have dominated games then have been unfortunate. The players he has signed I dont think he has ever either spotted or signed a bad player.

You can only make impact decisions and changes if you have the players on your bench to do that. So for example against Leeds he made the deision to play the entire 90 minutes with the same 11. He looked at the bench and had the balls to stick with the 11 on the pitch. We have lost so many games late on and yet he was not scared of that happening again via tiredness he knew the players on the bench were not as good as tired players on the pitch so he had the guts to make the decision to play with 11.

That is one example of the top of my head.

Can you answer my questions now please

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

kduffy said:
and would make West Ham 10 points better off (why not 9)?

You have to draw the odd match here and there

dongonzalos · Feb 19, 2012

dongonzalos said:
You have to draw the odd match here and there

Even if you are a shithot as Thorn, sometimes it is easy to forget he is human. So I have factored that in with the odd draw

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

dongonzalos said:
I think I have answered that I think he is a good manager for the style of football he plays I have enjoyed it. The way Coventry have dominated games then have been unfortunate. The players he has signed I dont think he has ever either spotted or signed a bad player.

You can only make impact decisions and changes if you have the players on your bench to do that. So for example against Leeds he made the deision to play the entire 90 minutes with the same 11. He looked at the bench and had the balls to stick with the 11 on the pitch. We have lost so many games late on and yet he was not scared of that happening again via tiredness he knew the players on the bench were not as good as tired players on the pitch so he had the guts to make the decision to play with 11.

That is one example of the top of my head.

Can you answer my questions now please

What about Palace, Blackpool, Ipswich at home, Forest at the weekend. What happened with his changes there? Why bring eastwood on when we go 2-0 down in the last minute?

If he was "shit hot" he would surely know why we keep losing and fix it?

You can change tactics without making a substitution though?? A good manager would be able to change tactics and gameplans to suit and change the formation and gameplan.

Read the other Thorn post, you will see all of the questions

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Even if you are a shithot as Thorn, sometimes it is easy to forget he is human. So I have factored that in with the odd draw

Clearly a wind up or Thorn himself!

Houchens Head · Feb 20, 2012

rob9872 said:
I wanted to just type "lol" but I have to type at least ten characters! Grrrrrrrrrrr!

LOL

Rob, That's more than your ten character quota!!

Danny · Feb 20, 2012

Nick said:
Clearly a wind up or Thorn himself!

Nick here's a question who was the last manager of coventry who made you go wow what a decision because off the top of my head I cannot think of one never mind thorn making me think wow and as for forest and not making any subs are bench was utter shite on saturday due to injuries and lack of strength in depth eg eastwood can't hit a barndoor, dunn, bell who's hit and miss but mainly miss and a couple of kids no one off that bench could have had a major impact on the game unlike forest who had blackstock sitting on their bench. Unlike us forest have strength in depth but they have just under performed I believe that they have more quality players than we do. As for ipswich they spent a lot over the summer and have some quality players but for some reason we haven't gelled.

Paxman II · Feb 20, 2012

I do sympathise with Thorn to an extent but overall he has not made good decisions and those decisions in games I have watched cost us points.

His man management is suspect. The eastwood saga is one. Told to find another club but now back in the team? I had it on good authority not so long ago Eastwood was disliked by his team mates generally due to personal diffeences and attitude but Thorn brings him back?

Bigirimana. What a sensational find.....where is he now?

Bringing in a tired old full back on loan who had not played first team football in an age. Where is he already...yeah injured and out for the season. Made more errors than Clarke and looked terrible.

Sending McPake away when we obviously need good defenders.

Insisting on playing the diamond formation when we keep losing?

Nah I'm sorry folks regardless of what ever sympathy you may have he really has not cut the mustard.
A good coach or manager should be able to improve a player. No one under Thorn has done that.

Have to say AB's decision to start the season with Turner and Cameron at the back when we all expected Wood and McPake was genius. They were sensational until much later when injuries messed up that partnership. Remember that? That's a manager with experience getting something extra out of players.

Thorn is never going to inspire anyone folks.

Otis · Feb 20, 2012

People keep talking about last season.

Now seems all very apparent that this was a honeymoon period.

If not and you are basing Thorn being a good manager on the results at the end of last season, even though we are on a terrible run of results this season, then surely Boothroyd is a good manager based on the start of last season where we were top and top 6 for some time and on a very good run before going on a terrible run.

mark82 · Feb 20, 2012

I know why everyone thinks sacking Thorn is the right thing to do. It's because that policy has been so successful in the past. I mean, without the constant revolving door of managers we wouldn't have all the success we've had in the last few years.

Oh wait.........

mark82 · Feb 20, 2012

Otis said:
People keep talking about last season.

Now seems all very apparent that this was a honeymoon period.

If not and you are basing Thorn being a good manager on the results at the end of last season, even though we are on a terrible run of results this season, then surely Boothroyd is a good manager based on the start of last season where we were top and top 6 for some time and on a very good run before going on a terrible run.

Boothroyd is a good manager. He took an unfancied Watford side to the Premier League and had a good crack at staying there. It didn't work out with us (trigger happy board/fans) but that doesn't make him a bad manager.

Otis · Feb 20, 2012

A lot of people will disagree with you.

I for one, won't. I think that if the board had supported AB when we had that awful injury crisis and brought a few players in, in that January window we would have gone on to have a good season.

Didn't like the football but I don't think he is that bad a manager.

For what it's worth, I don't think Thorn is a bad manager. Just someone out of his depth.

mark82 · Feb 20, 2012

Otis said:
A lot of people will disagree with you.

I for one, won't. I think that if the board had supported AB when we had that awful injury crisis and brought a few players in, in that January window we would have gone on to have a good season.

Didn't like the football but I don't think he is that bad a manager.

For what it's worth, I don't think Thorn is a bad manager. Just someone out of his depth.

The football under Boothroyd was dire. Wouldn't want that back. Would like to see Thorn have a go next year with a squad that should get top 6. Will judge him then.

craigus12 · Feb 20, 2012

How is passing to each other in our half attractive? And being unfortunate could count for a couple, maybe a few times but definitely not every single away game this season.

covcity4life · Feb 20, 2012

mark82 said:
I know why everyone thinks sacking Thorn is the right thing to do. It's because that policy has been so successful in the past. I mean, without the constant revolving door of managers we wouldn't have all the success we've had in the last few years.

Oh wait.........

if we didnt do it before maybe we would be in league one???????

if anything this shows we were right to sack those managers so often

Otis · Feb 20, 2012

mark82 said:
The football under Boothroyd was dire. Wouldn't want that back. Would like to see Thorn have a go next year with a squad that should get top 6. Will judge him then.

No, don't get me wrong, the football was poor.

Just don't think he was that bad of a manager as some people make out. Yep, we got found out somewhat, but i think if he could have strengthened in that January window when we were down to the bare bones we would have done okay.

craigus12 · Feb 20, 2012

I think everyone forgets that we were under a transfer embargo last season, yet AB wasn't given this much support.

I'm not saying AB was better but it seems AT can do no wrong.

Otis · Feb 20, 2012

Certainly more sympathy for him.

Maybe that's because he is a scout.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 20, 2012

Thorn's main Achilles' heel is the glaringly terrible away form. To his credit, the Ricoh's become a difficult place to come and get 3 points-on the other hand, on the road we are simply 1/2-0 cannon fodder because of our 'must not lose' attitude. Too many times have we seen City make a fist of away games when the game's been lost already or the opposition's racked up a few goals; and the form guide here is so damning Thorn must be aware the current away set-up isn't right. That leads you to conclude either he sees what we all see, but doesn't know what changes to make, or sees what changes are required, but lacks the managerial ability to put them in place.
As I said, he deserves praise for restoring some pride at the Ricoh; but if we go down, it's this wretched away sequence that will do it.

Otis · Feb 20, 2012

I kind of reckon that because earlier on we were losing to last minute goals away from home Thorn has set his stall for us to be more defensive on our travels.

Not sure quite how that works however. Can understand a batten down the hatches for the last 15 minutes scenario, but not being cautious from the off. Seems like he wants us to stay in games as long as we can in the hope of nicking something.

Whatever it is, it clearly isn't working and we need to try something different. Anything. If we don't pick up points on our travels we will go down.

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