Why Andy Thorn must stay, whatever happens! (8 Viewers)

CJparker

New Member
Yes, the team is struggling at the bottom of the league but we should learn from Coventry’s recent history and back our manager to the hilt. Here’s why:

Most importantly, the club has continued to flounder since relegation with a disparate series of managers, including promotion specialists (Reid, Adams), playing stalwarts (Nilsson, McAllister), experienced Premiership bosses (Dowie, Coleman) long-ball specialists (Boothroyd), and internal promotions (Black, Thorn). The fact that we couldn’t achieve consistent success under any of these managers, who boast five championship promotions between them, suggests that managerial style is irrelevant to success.

Since relegation in 2001, City have struggled to make an impact on the division and have never seriously challenged for a play-off place, contrary to all expectations when we came down. The chopping and changing of managers (Thorn is the 10th full-time boss since relegation) has had a de-stabilising effect on long-term performance. A recent report by the League Managers Association (LMA) found that, upon appointing a new manager, the average club can expect to see an improved points haul in the first dozen games under a new boss before the results return to their pre-appointment level. This suggests that knee-jerk hiring and firing, tempting as it may be, has no benefits long term and in fact will damage the club by making it unable to have consistent management over a period of several years.

Looking at clubs with long term management, like Crewe (Dario Gradi), Port Vale (John Rudge) and QPR (Ian Holloway) amongst others, it is clear that a long-period of building and planning can take place before consistent ‘punching above our weight’ success. There are very few managers with a magic wand who can bring instant success – the trade-off for success is usually years of patience and consistent, unspectacular building. This is the opportunity that City desperately need to give their boss, and since AT is in possession, he should be given this chance.

If Thorn is given the chance to stamp his imprint on the team long-term, we should accept that this process of re-building may have to begin in League One. The squad we have now was shorn of ten players (if you include Eastwood) over the summer with few replacements; there have been some standouts, but of the remainder many are of sub-Championship quality in that they are unable to turn in consistent second-tier performances (Deegan, Baker, Bell, McPake, O’Donovan, MacDonald, Christie, Murphy), while other senior players have disappointed (McSheffrey, Clingan). The rest are kids and the odd old pro playing above his level (Platt). This is a squad that looks unlikely to win League One, never mind survive in the Championship, and it should be the current manager, with his in-depth knowledge of everyone’s strengths and weaknesses, who gets to plan the re-building for next season.

Looking back to the train ride up to the first home game of the season, the mood ranged from black humour to outright defeatism (and in some cases alcoholism, no names mentioned – Kevin Mofid). Nobody back in August expected us to do anything other than go down, so it seems very harsh to be calling now for AT’s head on the basis of the league table.

Whilst fans moan about declining attendances and City’s league table position, it is worth noting that clubs with similar or fewer resources have been promoted to the Premier League in recent years – look at Watford, Bradford, Burnley, Hull, Stoke, Blackpool and Swansea. All drew similar crowds as Coventry do, so to blame the manager for not putting bums on seats, as if this is the key to promotion, are again misguided.

So the defence of Thorn is clear; we need someone to be given a long term chance, and he’s the man in possession. There’s no evidence that anyone else would do better long term, so give him a go. Clubs who do give bosses a long-term chance are more likely to prosper as a result, albeit not necessarily immediately. Our current squad is weak and relegation-bound, and this is not Thorn’s fault - the team’s performances this season have been in line with prior expectation. Low crowds are not necessarily a barrier to success. Thorn has proved he can play attractive football – now is the time to show a bit of loyalty and give him the chance to change recent history and bring some success back to Coventry City.
 

CUS Wyken

New Member
Behave... 5 wins in 30 games is Unacceptable.

Bottom of the league 7 points adrift unacceptable

16 goals all season unacceptable

2 wins all season unacceptable

Shall I carry on? These are the stats, previous regimes mean nothing. It's now we need to concentrate on and it's time thorn goes
 

The CableGuy

Well-Known Member
OK, sack Thorn.

Then what?

Potential Managers would look at us and think:

No money? Unacceptable.
No decent long term loans? Unacceptable.
10 Managers in 10 years? Unacceptable.
Owners who issue broken promises again and again? Unacceptable
Potential Career Killer (unless you fancy working for the media and SSN)? Unacceptable
Future League 1 club? Unacceptable
Owners who leak player salaries and investor names to the media? Unacceptable
Owners who care more about saving costs then saving the club from relegation? Unacceptable
Relying on kids in League 1 because no funds exist to get experienced players in? Unacceptable

I don't see Coventry City Football Club being an attractive draw for any half-decent Manager right now, and we've HAD had some here.....or rather before they came here.

The problem isn't the Manager(s). Its deeper then that. Something about this club just infects people with FAILURE. Until the cause of that is identified and cut out, I fear we won't be improving on or off the pitch any time soon.
 
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Otis

Well-Known Member
I have always been totally against chopping and changing and sacking managers. It never gives a manager a chance to build, it is disruptive and prevents stability. It is usually counter productive and means we go two steps forward to go three steps back.


However, the one clause I would always put in is that if the manager simply isn't good enough. What is the point of trying to build and get stability with someone who hasn't got the ability to take us anywhere.

For me Thorn has made far too many mistakes and we now have a team that is not even putting in the minimum amount of effort into games half the time. That is not a good sign at all. The one thing teams at the bottom have is usually a bit of battle and fight, but that they are not quite good enough. We are not quite good enough and don't even put in the fight either (West Ham excepted).

This is simply not acceptable.
 

ICHAN

Well-Known Member
The team has no fighting spirit left in them which being in the predicament they are in is surprising.
Ok the kids struggle having hardly any experiance but this is not acceptable from the senior experianced better players in the team, so what is amiss?
Lack of commitment?
Some coming to the end of there contract, if so then they are hardly putting themselves in the shop window and covering themselves with glory at the moment, so some may not get the move they think they may get?
Or whats happening on the training pitch?
What ever it is, it is not being resolved from week to the next so someone has to pay the price, why because it's a results game.
As I have said numorous times.
The board can not sack themselves or go until someone wants to buy them, which at the moment could get more and more remote with the direction were going, because if I was investing in them I would be thinking twice about doing so, why invest in a team/club that is going to be relegated and who's players lack any kind of conviction on the pitch.
The players can not be sacked although most should be.
So again it comes down to the manager and weather you like it or not he is the only one who can/will be sacked at the end of the day and that is the only definate in this it is just a matter of when and how far behind we are when this does happen.
 

mattylad

Member
Sadly I have to agree with the above, I like Thorn and yes his hands have been tied but I dont think we have the worst squad in the league and its probably time to try something different (not for one second do I think it will save us from being relegated but we have to ty it)
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Sadly I have to agree with the above, I like Thorn and yes his hands have been tied but I dont think we have the worst squad in the league and its probably time to try something different (not for one second do I think it will save us from being relegated but we have to ty it)

We have to try something. To give up now without a fight would be a disgrace. Word is that today only about 4 players were playing for the shirt. That is not acceptable and is just a real smack in the face for the Sky Blue faithful who make these sorts of trips.

The other side of continuing on this path is that the home gates are going to drop like a stone. No doubt about that and we have Winter ahead of us which will probably affect the attendances even more. We carry on like this with gutless performances and loads of defeats and the crowds will be around the 10,000 mark week in week out soon, if not lower.
 
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rob9872

Well-Known Member
Port Vale & Crewe - fantastic examples of success. QPR - oh look it was money that finally counted. I struggle to think of three worse examples.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
I've said it before, sacking AT costs money & SISU won't spend money, in fact they are cashing in assets just to pay the squad till the end of the season.

Given the rest of the season at the helm of the Titanic simulator that is the once unsinkable Sky Blues AT might emerge a better manager.

We are going down whatever anyone says or hopes.
 

Gaz

Well-Known Member
Top post CJ

Yes, the team is struggling at the bottom of the league but we should learn from Coventry’s recent history and back our manager to the hilt. Here’s why:

Most importantly, the club has continued to flounder since relegation with a disparate series of managers, including promotion specialists (Reid, Adams), playing stalwarts (Nilsson, McAllister), experienced Premiership bosses (Dowie, Coleman) long-ball specialists (Boothroyd), and internal promotions (Black, Thorn). The fact that we couldn’t achieve consistent success under any of these managers, who boast five championship promotions between them, suggests that managerial style is irrelevant to success.

Since relegation in 2001, City have struggled to make an impact on the division and have never seriously challenged for a play-off place, contrary to all expectations when we came down. The chopping and changing of managers (Thorn is the 10th full-time boss since relegation) has had a de-stabilising effect on long-term performance. A recent report by the League Managers Association (LMA) found that, upon appointing a new manager, the average club can expect to see an improved points haul in the first dozen games under a new boss before the results return to their pre-appointment level. This suggests that knee-jerk hiring and firing, tempting as it may be, has no benefits long term and in fact will damage the club by making it unable to have consistent management over a period of several years.

Looking at clubs with long term management, like Crewe (Dario Gradi), Port Vale (John Rudge) and QPR (Ian Holloway) amongst others, it is clear that a long-period of building and planning can take place before consistent ‘punching above our weight’ success. There are very few managers with a magic wand who can bring instant success – the trade-off for success is usually years of patience and consistent, unspectacular building. This is the opportunity that City desperately need to give their boss, and since AT is in possession, he should be given this chance.

If Thorn is given the chance to stamp his imprint on the team long-term, we should accept that this process of re-building may have to begin in League One. The squad we have now was shorn of ten players (if you include Eastwood) over the summer with few replacements; there have been some standouts, but of the remainder many are of sub-Championship quality in that they are unable to turn in consistent second-tier performances (Deegan, Baker, Bell, McPake, O’Donovan, MacDonald, Christie, Murphy), while other senior players have disappointed (McSheffrey, Clingan). The rest are kids and the odd old pro playing above his level (Platt). This is a squad that looks unlikely to win League One, never mind survive in the Championship, and it should be the current manager, with his in-depth knowledge of everyone’s strengths and weaknesses, who gets to plan the re-building for next season.

Looking back to the train ride up to the first home game of the season, the mood ranged from black humour to outright defeatism (and in some cases alcoholism, no names mentioned – Kevin Mofid). Nobody back in August expected us to do anything other than go down, so it seems very harsh to be calling now for AT’s head on the basis of the league table.

Whilst fans moan about declining attendances and City’s league table position, it is worth noting that clubs with similar or fewer resources have been promoted to the Premier League in recent years – look at Watford, Bradford, Burnley, Hull, Stoke, Blackpool and Swansea. All drew similar crowds as Coventry do, so to blame the manager for not putting bums on seats, as if this is the key to promotion, are again misguided.

So the defence of Thorn is clear; we need someone to be given a long term chance, and he’s the man in possession. There’s no evidence that anyone else would do better long term, so give him a go. Clubs who do give bosses a long-term chance are more likely to prosper as a result, albeit not necessarily immediately. Our current squad is weak and relegation-bound, and this is not Thorn’s fault - the team’s performances this season have been in line with prior expectation. Low crowds are not necessarily a barrier to success. Thorn has proved he can play attractive football – now is the time to show a bit of loyalty and give him the chance to change recent history and bring some success back to Coventry City.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Port Vale & Crewe - fantastic examples of success. QPR - oh look it was money that finally counted. I struggle to think of three worse examples.

Yes when I saw Crewe and Port Vale I almost broke a rib laughing. I think this poster is Orange Ken himself.
 

CJparker

New Member
Yes when I saw Crewe and Port Vale I almost broke a rib laughing. I think this poster is Orange Ken himself.

So was I dreaming when those two clubs, under Gradi and Rudge managed to propser for year in the Championship on gates of well under 10k?
 

Didge76

Well-Known Member
Yes, the team is struggling at the bottom of the league but we should learn from Coventry’s recent history and back our manager to the hilt. Here’s why:

Most importantly, the club has continued to flounder since relegation with a disparate series of managers, including promotion specialists (Reid, Adams), playing stalwarts (Nilsson, McAllister), experienced Premiership bosses (Dowie, Coleman) long-ball specialists (Boothroyd), and internal promotions (Black, Thorn). The fact that we couldn’t achieve consistent success under any of these managers, who boast five championship promotions between them, suggests that managerial style is irrelevant to success.

Since relegation in 2001, City have struggled to make an impact on the division and have never seriously challenged for a play-off place, contrary to all expectations when we came down. The chopping and changing of managers (Thorn is the 10th full-time boss since relegation) has had a de-stabilising effect on long-term performance. A recent report by the League Managers Association (LMA) found that, upon appointing a new manager, the average club can expect to see an improved points haul in the first dozen games under a new boss before the results return to their pre-appointment level. This suggests that knee-jerk hiring and firing, tempting as it may be, has no benefits long term and in fact will damage the club by making it unable to have consistent management over a period of several years.

Looking at clubs with long term management, like Crewe (Dario Gradi), Port Vale (John Rudge) and QPR (Ian Holloway) amongst others, it is clear that a long-period of building and planning can take place before consistent ‘punching above our weight’ success. There are very few managers with a magic wand who can bring instant success – the trade-off for success is usually years of patience and consistent, unspectacular building. This is the opportunity that City desperately need to give their boss, and since AT is in possession, he should be given this chance.

If Thorn is given the chance to stamp his imprint on the team long-term, we should accept that this process of re-building may have to begin in League One. The squad we have now was shorn of ten players (if you include Eastwood) over the summer with few replacements; there have been some standouts, but of the remainder many are of sub-Championship quality in that they are unable to turn in consistent second-tier performances (Deegan, Baker, Bell, McPake, O’Donovan, MacDonald, Christie, Murphy), while other senior players have disappointed (McSheffrey, Clingan). The rest are kids and the odd old pro playing above his level (Platt). This is a squad that looks unlikely to win League One, never mind survive in the Championship, and it should be the current manager, with his in-depth knowledge of everyone’s strengths and weaknesses, who gets to plan the re-building for next season.

Looking back to the train ride up to the first home game of the season, the mood ranged from black humour to outright defeatism (and in some cases alcoholism, no names mentioned – Kevin Mofid). Nobody back in August expected us to do anything other than go down, so it seems very harsh to be calling now for AT’s head on the basis of the league table.

Whilst fans moan about declining attendances and City’s league table position, it is worth noting that clubs with similar or fewer resources have been promoted to the Premier League in recent years – look at Watford, Bradford, Burnley, Hull, Stoke, Blackpool and Swansea. All drew similar crowds as Coventry do, so to blame the manager for not putting bums on seats, as if this is the key to promotion, are again misguided.

So the defence of Thorn is clear; we need someone to be given a long term chance, and he’s the man in possession. There’s no evidence that anyone else would do better long term, so give him a go. Clubs who do give bosses a long-term chance are more likely to prosper as a result, albeit not necessarily immediately. Our current squad is weak and relegation-bound, and this is not Thorn’s fault - the team’s performances this season have been in line with prior expectation. Low crowds are not necessarily a barrier to success. Thorn has proved he can play attractive football – now is the time to show a bit of loyalty and give him the chance to change recent history and bring some success back to Coventry City.
Feck off, wake up and smell the coffee. Stats don't lie and he is totally out of his depth. Basically enough is enough, so AT and Tanman your time is up!!!
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
So was I dreaming when those two clubs, under Gradi and Rudge managed to propser for year in the Championship on gates of well under 10k?

Getting there is not the same as staying there and they have returned to their rightful place. Some could possibly argue that the same is true of us.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
So the mainstay of your argument is that we should make a long term appointment and because AT is there already we stick with him ....... that would mean whether right or wrong person, whether he actually has the skills or not we stick with him. That is no justification! :facepalm: There is no proof he is the right or wrong man he is just who we have (hamstrung by finance and lacking management skills and experience........... a no win for us and him)... there are plenty of excuses and opinions this way and that, can see both sides of the argument. Certainly not convinced I have seen anything in him that could rebuild this club

I agree with the general principle of giving time and rebuilding. Just not convinced AT is a manager who has what it takes, Fine scout but management is not scouting. He is part of the problem just as much as part of a solution.

btw Christie is one of the youngsters and none of them are playing because AT really wants them to, they are generally playing because he has no other choice. Most times he has choice he opted for experience.

As for for attractive football ..... really ? We play pretty, neutral football that achieves little, it has little desire and passion, it certainly doesnt excite. My lad 14 isnt interested in a season ticket next year .... why ? "we play boring football" that reaction common amongst his mates, is extremely worrying as he and his peers are the financial future of this club..... the future on that basis doesnt look good under AT does it. The style we play isnt to do with finances that is the managers choice - and it is switching fans off
 
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Sky Blue Sheepy

New Member
Its all well saying money gets you promoted but tactics and training keep you up. I disagree that thorn would do the well with money. Look at Sven! All that money but didn't know what to do with the players he bought. Thorn is the same imo.
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
Sorry guys but who are and where are the experienced managers who are knocking down the door to steer the skyblue titanic to safety. The football world knows were a clusterfuck, AT gives an accurat assesment of a poor squad, then an impassioned plea for new faces and he will end up with the permatanned footballing genius called Dulieu. The blame for where we are can only be laid firmly at the feet of Sisu, AT isnt perfect but he sounded tonight like he was very much with us.
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
Its all well saying money gets you promoted but tactics and training keep you up. I disagree that thorn would do the well with money. Look at Sven! All that money but didn't know what to do with the players he bought. Thorn is the same imo.
A future England manager then.
 

skybluehugh

New Member
So the mainstay of your argument is that we should make a long term appointment and because AT is there already we stick with him ....... that would mean whether right or wrong person, whether he actually has the skills or not we stick with him. That is no justification! :facepalm: There is no proof he is the right or wrong man he is just who we have (hamstrung by finance and lacking management skills and experience........... a no win for us and him)... there are plenty of excuses and opinions this way and that, can see both sides of the argument. Certainly not convinced I have seen anything in him that could rebuild this club

I agree with the general principle of giving time and rebuilding. Just not convinced AT is a manager who has what it takes, Fine scout but management is not scouting. He is part of the problem just as much as part of a solution.

btw Christie is one of the youngsters and none of them are playing because AT really wants them to, they are generally playing because he has no other choice. Most times he has choice he opted for experience.

As for for attractive football ..... really ? We play pretty, neutral football that achieves little, it has little desire and passion, it certainly doesnt excite. My lad 14 isnt interested in a season ticket next year .... why ? "we play boring football" that reaction common amongst his mates, is extremely worrying as he and his peers are the financial future of this club..... the future on that basis doesnt look good under AT does it. The style we play isnt to do with finances that is the managers choice - and it is switching fans off

Well putt you have said it better than any previous arguments for his removel
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Don't get this "attractive football" either.

How many good games of football have there been at the Ricoh this season? Games in which we played well. And don't just give out the old chestnut of us being beaten in most games so we can't play as well as excpected, because against West Ham I thought we played really, really well and it was a really good game and I went home happy in spite of the defeat. That was an exciting display by the Sky Blues.

Tippy tapping the ball about in our own half is not attractive football and it is not exciting. I have only been excited by our football once this season and that was West Ham. There have been other fleeting moments like the Blackpool fightback and at times against Derby but that's about it.
 

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