What is more important (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tonylinc
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
If you are talking about a big club where all of them have quality internationals in every position, the manager-it's Sir Alex that really gives Man U the edge over Chelsea, Arsenal, Man C et al.
But in terms of lower down? Players, every time. The gulf in quality, by nature, gets bigger the lower down you go-and is therefore more important.
But in terms of lower down? Players, every time. The gulf in quality, by nature, gets bigger the lower down you go-and is therefore more important.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Manager I think.
Many an average side done really well under a great or very good manager (Brian Clough being a very good example).
By the same token just throwing money at a team has proved it doesn't always work. Man City on paper should have absolutely walked the Premiership and Leshtur are also a very good case in point. A good manager gets the best out of the players he has. A team of very good individual players doesn't always equate to a very good team.
Many an average side done really well under a great or very good manager (Brian Clough being a very good example).
By the same token just throwing money at a team has proved it doesn't always work. Man City on paper should have absolutely walked the Premiership and Leshtur are also a very good case in point. A good manager gets the best out of the players he has. A team of very good individual players doesn't always equate to a very good team.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
I'd say Cloughie wouldn't be able to win the league with Derby and Forest sized clubs now-the gap between the big clubs in terms of budget and quality is 10 times bigger. Blame SKY if you like, but it's created a chasm to the rest.
Yes you can say Norwich and Swansea now, but they aren't winning the league, are they?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Blackpool went up from the Championship with pretty average players too.
It's all about getting the right players to play in the right system and with the right spirit rather than just bring in 11 really good players.
Leshtur think they can just buy 11 players and they'll have a good team. Numpties!
It's all about getting the right players to play in the right system and with the right spirit rather than just bring in 11 really good players.
Leshtur think they can just buy 11 players and they'll have a good team. Numpties!
skybluemole
New Member
i would say very good manager,as a good manager can bring out the best of a average player.but a poor manager with good players can upset relations in a good squad for example putting players in wrong positions for different formations,not substituting the right player at the right time,thats when you see players having tantrums when they come off.And knowing how to give speech or rollicking at half time.
The Reverend Skyblue
Well-Known Member
Its a good question but personally I think if your speaking about us in the next few seasons then it would be better to have a better manager than better players
He will get the best from all his players, not just a few, and he will bring in the right men to run the coaching/scouting etc. I feel to get the club out of our prediciment we desperately need a manger to do the above and get this club sorted out, the whole set up needs a clear out and for him to bring in a new team.
Obviously a set of good players would help, but one good man could do an awful lot of good given the chance, its just finding him and tempting him to come to Cov.
The Rev
He will get the best from all his players, not just a few, and he will bring in the right men to run the coaching/scouting etc. I feel to get the club out of our prediciment we desperately need a manger to do the above and get this club sorted out, the whole set up needs a clear out and for him to bring in a new team.
Obviously a set of good players would help, but one good man could do an awful lot of good given the chance, its just finding him and tempting him to come to Cov.
The Rev
Sisu_Cockroaches
New Member
70% manager 30% players.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I disagree.
You can have an excellent manager but if you have poor players they can't play the tactics needed. You can also have an excellent manager and half decent players but if none of the players can score goals then you will not win many games. If your opponents have a good striker or two they will not need many chances to score.
Goalscorers win games. Average manager, average players as well, but with a goalscorer or two would be my choice.
You can have an excellent manager but if you have poor players they can't play the tactics needed. You can also have an excellent manager and half decent players but if none of the players can score goals then you will not win many games. If your opponents have a good striker or two they will not need many chances to score.
Goalscorers win games. Average manager, average players as well, but with a goalscorer or two would be my choice.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
It's a strange one really, there are only a handful of 'special' managers (e.g. Moyes, Fergie, MON, Roy, etc). Lambert and Rodgers have done tremendously well last season and this season, but the proof of the pudding will how Norwich and Swansea do in the tricky second season.
Even the managers underneath those 'special' managers have all experienced some form of failure in their career, as have most that are highlighted on here as good experienced managers - Lambert's first job at Livingstone, Brendon Rodgers at Reading, Holloway at Leicester, Warnock is struggling at Leeds and also struggled at Huddlesfield, Adkins was relegated twice with Scunthorpe, Steve McClaren at Forest, Sven at Leicester, Brian CLough at Leeds, AVB at Chelsea, King Kenny currently at Liverpool, Allerdyce at Newcastle, Ferguson at Preston, Phil Brown at Preston, Pardew at Charlton, Steve Tilson at Lincoln,
Sometimes (e.g. Holloway at Blackpool, Dowie at Palace, Boothroyd at Watford) it's about having the right manager and the right group of players at the right time, and thigs just click. Also re: Swansea everyone seems to forget that the footballing foundations and development were started by Kenny Jackett, Martinez, and Sousa, and Rodgers has just continued to enhance it.
Sorry went off a bit waffly there, but i think the point i am trying to make is that a good manager can only take you so far, and a given manager could easily be a success or a failure depending what the conditions are in terms of the board room, club vision and playing staff.
Even the managers underneath those 'special' managers have all experienced some form of failure in their career, as have most that are highlighted on here as good experienced managers - Lambert's first job at Livingstone, Brendon Rodgers at Reading, Holloway at Leicester, Warnock is struggling at Leeds and also struggled at Huddlesfield, Adkins was relegated twice with Scunthorpe, Steve McClaren at Forest, Sven at Leicester, Brian CLough at Leeds, AVB at Chelsea, King Kenny currently at Liverpool, Allerdyce at Newcastle, Ferguson at Preston, Phil Brown at Preston, Pardew at Charlton, Steve Tilson at Lincoln,
Sometimes (e.g. Holloway at Blackpool, Dowie at Palace, Boothroyd at Watford) it's about having the right manager and the right group of players at the right time, and thigs just click. Also re: Swansea everyone seems to forget that the footballing foundations and development were started by Kenny Jackett, Martinez, and Sousa, and Rodgers has just continued to enhance it.
Sorry went off a bit waffly there, but i think the point i am trying to make is that a good manager can only take you so far, and a given manager could easily be a success or a failure depending what the conditions are in terms of the board room, club vision and playing staff.
sylus
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
An excellent would use tactics to suit the players and work to their strengths surely?
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I would choose very good players, as long as the manager is not terrible and just half decent he should get decent results from them.
I agree Stu's post it is about getting the right manager for the size of your club and to compliment your players, some managers fit to a club like a hand and a glove, if you have a speedy squad largely under 6 foot you are hardly gonna go out and appoint Sam Allardyce.
Also about getting the right personality manager for a club, a manager needs to command respect from the squad but at the same time you don't want a personality clash between the manager and players.
I agree Stu's post it is about getting the right manager for the size of your club and to compliment your players, some managers fit to a club like a hand and a glove, if you have a speedy squad largely under 6 foot you are hardly gonna go out and appoint Sam Allardyce.
Also about getting the right personality manager for a club, a manager needs to command respect from the squad but at the same time you don't want a personality clash between the manager and players.
Sisu_Cockroaches
New Member
A good point about goal scorers, if Marlon King was here this season we would have stayed up without a doubt.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
My choice would be an amazing manager, amazing players and 5 20+goals a season strikers
Tad
Member
Manager. A managers job is to use what resources he's got to forfill the boards/fans goals. Once he has a plan, he then has to go out and find players by relying on scouts or his own judgement. Once he has a team, he has to then work on training drills with the other coaches (which they usually can choose themselves) and get the players ready for each game tactically. There are times when players lack confidence or suffer from some other emotionally problems or just need motavating. Other times, the manager needs to keep them in check and make sure there not destroying the work ethic or team around them by being a bad influence. Bit like looking after school kids sometimes I'd imagine..
One wrong move, the manager gets his face plastered all over the media. Many more mistakes, he'll probably face the axe. The pressure must be awful sometimes.
Losing a manager is tough for everyone at a club. All his ideas and players need to be re-worked or salvaged some how. This can take a lot time (1/2 seasons) and a lot of money.
If a player is under performing/ being a problem however, a manager can replace them via the academy or during the transfer window etc.
This is why it's hard to get a good manager. You can't just be tactically sound. You need to have your feet in a lot of different fields like Business, physiology, creativity etc.
One wrong move, the manager gets his face plastered all over the media. Many more mistakes, he'll probably face the axe. The pressure must be awful sometimes.
Losing a manager is tough for everyone at a club. All his ideas and players need to be re-worked or salvaged some how. This can take a lot time (1/2 seasons) and a lot of money.
If a player is under performing/ being a problem however, a manager can replace them via the academy or during the transfer window etc.
This is why it's hard to get a good manager. You can't just be tactically sound. You need to have your feet in a lot of different fields like Business, physiology, creativity etc.
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