What have they got and we haven't? (1 Viewer)

Nick · Apr 5, 2016

But have they all been brought in JUST for injuries?

I'd say Cargill, Stephens and Ramage were brought in for injury cover.

If that is all since January, it doesn't explain the bad performances since November?

Interestingly our better performers in games such as Stephens, Lorentzon, Cargill and Jones haven't had time to learn our system...

skybluetony176 · Apr 5, 2016

wingy said:
Kind of agree but not sure on the word,maybe cautious.
Felt particularly during the Burton and Walsall games we adopted that style, really disappointed me.

Yep, cautious is probably the better choice of word.

skybluegod · Apr 5, 2016

Nick said:
But have they all been brought in JUST for injuries?

I'd say Cargill, Stephens and Ramage were brought in for injury cover.

If that is all since January, it doesn't explain the bad performances since November?

Interestingly our better performers in games such as Stephens, Lorentzon, Cargill and Jones haven't had time to learn our system...

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Grendel · Apr 5, 2016

skybluetony176 said:
Our style has gone from a committed, attacking style to a paniced, defensive style since just before Xmas in my opinion with the obvious exception of Crewe away and Bury at home. If nothing had changed and we were totally rigid as you suggest surely we would be top of the league?

Well no as we don't adapt and teams look at it, know whats coming and deal with it, high pressing from opponents midfield and shutting down the distribution from the back.

We panic as our formation and play is predictable

Voice_of_Reason · Apr 5, 2016

Maybe too many loan players who maybe do not have the same level of commitment as contracted players? Divided loyalties?

Nick · Apr 5, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
Maybe too many loan players who maybe do not have the same level of commitment as contracted players? Divided loyalties?

Other teams have the same number of loan players don't they?

wingy · Apr 5, 2016

Grendel said:
Well no as we don't adapt and teams look at it, know whats coming and deal with it, high pressing from opponents midfield and shutting down the distribution from the back.

We panic as our formation and play is predictable

Going back to those 8 players and the 85% stat.
I'd have to wager although the backline appears to have been ravaged with Injury, RCC. RICKETS MARTIN And STOKES to this point are around that level.
Then we Have Fleck Vincelot and Murphy in Midfield which leaves Armstrong as virtual ever-present.
So basically one defensive slot has caused a lot of rotation and two midfield berths also.
Both have seemed quite damaging yet the latter self inflicted, although it could be argued Redas signing was too.

Nick · Apr 5, 2016

wingy said:
Going back to those 8 players and the 85% stat.
I'd have to wager although the backline appears to have been ravaged with Injury, RCC. RICKETS MARTIN And STOKES to this point are around that level.
Then we Have Fleck Vincelot and Murphy in Midfield which leaves Armstrong as virtual ever-present.
So basically one defensive slot has caused a lot of rotation and two midfield berths also.
Both have seemed quite damaging yet the latter self inflicted, although it could be argued Redas signing was too.

Another could be Cole, as he can only play certain games he comes in, then goes out.

Covstu · Apr 5, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
Maybe too many loan players who maybe do not have the same level of commitment as contracted players? Divided loyalties?

For me this is the reason and has been for years. The loan system isn't about building your team from scratch and those players becoming the backbone of your squad, it's more about a supplement to the players in the camp already. We have to start building a squad from scratch every year this cannot be good for consistency or team spirit? You need at least 8 or 9 recognised first team players which we don't have. Again next season we lose a striker, midfielder and two centre halfs due to the loan system. All absolute key positions.

skybluegod · Apr 5, 2016

I agree I think Cole is a huge factor not cause of the picking and choosing of games, because tbh he isn't even that good. If you could sub him on and off for set pieces then fine
But he is too slow, unfit and IMO takes away from our team.
Was so excited when he joined but tbh he isn't at the required levels for league one

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skybluegod · Apr 5, 2016

Having said that he must have had a good impact on the younger players so its not all bad

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fernandopartridge · Apr 5, 2016

For those who keep on rattling on about Mowbray in the second half of the season.

Parkinson by rights should have been sacked by Bradford, the last two seasons his side has been in the play off places at various times only to miss out. He's obviously a failure.

Nick · Apr 5, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
For those who keep on rattling on about Mowbray in the second half of the season.

Parkinson by rights should have been sacked by Bradford, the last two seasons his side has been in the play off places at various times only to miss out. He's obviously a failure.

Was it a dramatic falloff of form we had?

Sky Blue Kid · Apr 5, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
For those who keep on rattling on about Mowbray in the second half of the season.

Parkinson by rights should have been sacked by Bradford, the last two seasons his side has been in the play off places at various times only to miss out. He's obviously a failure.

Rubbish! Bradford form from beginning of December to April 4th 2014-15 season reads.... W..12..L..6..D..9. CCFC form from beginning December to April 2015-16 season reads.....W..4..L..10..D..6... No comparison whatsoever.

Sky Blue Kid · Apr 5, 2016

2 of Bradford's 3 defeats in the last 7 games were to Preston, and Bristol City(Both Promoted) with final games being L3..W..2..D..2 CCFC stil have 5 games to make the comparison even worse!

Gazolba · Apr 5, 2016

All of those teams have better goal-keepers than us. We need to have the best goal-keeper in the league. It improves the entire defence to have confidence in the keeper.

fernandopartridge · Apr 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Rubbish! Bradford form from beginning of December to April 4th 2014-15 season reads.... W..12..L..6..D..9. CCFC form from beginning December to April 2015-16 season reads.....W..4..L..10..D..6... No comparison whatsoever.

It was a tongue in cheek comment. If we finish outside the top 6 this season, our position is neither here nor there.

fernandopartridge · Apr 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
2 of Bradford's 3 defeats in the last 7 games were to Preston, and Bristol City(Both Promoted) with final games being L3..W..2..D..2 CCFC stil have 5 games to make the comparison even worse!

They were 5th at the end of December 2014 and 6th at the end of February 2016 . From the turn of the year they won 5 out of 21 games before the penultimate and last game of the season. Their run of form between January and early April is very similar to CCFC's this season.

RegTheDonk · Apr 5, 2016

chickentikkamasala said:
How many changes have been made to our starting line up this season? how consistent has our team selection been?

Worth a read on Leicester City success http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35553082

Herman is our stat monster...wonder what he makes of all that.

Grendel · Apr 5, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
They were 5th at the end of December 2014 and 6th at the end of February 2016 . From the turn of the year they won 5 out of 21 games before the penultimate and last game of the season. Their run of form between January and early April is very similar to CCFC's this season.

Mowbrays record is bound to get scrutiny and be considered as a factor.

The team has used more players than other promotional hopefuls but we have a core nucleus of 8 players who have appeared in a very high percentage of games. The reason we have more anyway is partly due to Mowbray signing the likes of Hunt, Henderson, Lorenzton et al and then clearly deciding they are no good anyway.

The back four is often cited but two of his preferred choices have played most games. Martin actually wasn't first choice but has played 24 games and has been available for 28. Johnson was never going to be the answer.

The midfield 2 have pretty much picked themselves as has Armstrong and Murphy.

His decision not to sign an established and experienced goalkeeper has to be questioned. The inclusion of Cole when it suited him had to have a negative impact on some players and he's under performed.

The loans we are led to believe are sourced by Venus. The permenant signings have in the main been highly questionable. Fortune has been a bad signing, tudgay an expensive bench warmer and lameries clearly a mistake as he never gets a game now.

The early season form was stifled by opposition in the end very easily and we had no answer to it.

Without Armstrong and Murphy we'd be bottom of the pile and they won't be here next season.

shy_tall_knight · Apr 5, 2016

"Without Armstrong and Murphy we'd be bottom of the pile and they won't be here next season." - the most worrying thing about next season. Its a squad that doesn't score goals and is devoid of pace when them 2 go.

Chipfat · Apr 5, 2016

The short term issue is the CB pairing, its really important to any side who have sucess that 2 central players create a understanding that allows the team to defend without fear of conceding. We just haven't be en able to keep the same 2 on a field for any length of time, we have conceded so many silly goals and set pieces its very hard to keep confidence within the side when conceding comes so easily. This combined with a very young keeper who is still learning his job, with no real competition for his place make it very hard to keep consistancy over a season in results terms.

A longer view and problem is the amount of change we have each season, we build a new squad every summer which makes it hard to compete and build any sort of understanding. I Can see more than a few younger player from U18 and U21 football being in the 1st team squad next season.

SBAndy · Apr 5, 2016

Grendel said:
The back four is often cited but two of his preferred choices have played most games. Martin actually wasn't first choice but has played 24 games and has been available for 28. Johnson was never going to be the answer.

Problem being that Ricketts has played 40% of his games at CB, 50% at RB and 10% at LB. No consistency to the players that are consistently playing.

Voice_of_Reason · Apr 5, 2016

The consensus appears to be a lack of stability and my opinion is that this is the fault of SISU for failing to invest in our own players. Loan players come and go thus preventing long term stability. Had we our own contracted players this would provide the basis for next season. A lack of investment will once again mean a reliance on loan players.

Nick · Apr 5, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
The consensus appears to be a lack of stability and my opinion is that this is the fault of SISU for failing to invest in our own players. Loan players come and go thus preventing long term stability. Had we our own contracted players this would provide the basis for next season. A lack of investment will once again mean a reliance on loan players.

So why hasn't it happened to other teams?

Voice_of_Reason · Apr 5, 2016

Have the teams above us had the number of loans that we have?

Grendel · Apr 5, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
Have the teams above us had the number of loans that we have?

Our loans have been our best players

italiahorse · Apr 5, 2016

Grendel said:
Our loans have been our best players

Yes, all part of the 2 year plan :facepalm:

Nick · Apr 5, 2016

Voice_of_Reason said:
Have the teams above us had the number of loans that we have?

Yes

Monkeyface · Apr 5, 2016

Does anyone think maybe our fans have a part to play in any of this? Seems to me like a lot of fans revert to their default position of moaning as soon as we started this bad spell. Maybe other teams try and whip up their team? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I've enjoyed the post Christmas slump, but the way some fans talk, if I was Mowbray or maybe Murphy I'd be thinking 'why should I bother?'.

4waspsting · Apr 6, 2016

They all have match winners

Millwall FC · Apr 6, 2016

Loans and older players at the end of their career on short term contracts.

Not sure how many you have but they were a pain for us for a few years in the Championship. Yes it's a short term fix and it does work for some (Watford being one) but for us it was just getting in overpaid, overweight journeymen that really didn't give a shit about the club or young inexperienced kids from Premier League clubs, that in reality didn't really fancy it. Again, we had a few successes, Harry Kane, Andros Townsend and this season Jed Wallace but in the main it stunts the growth of your youth system.

When we went down last year we shed 20 players and went with fewer players, lots of home grown kids coming through. It breeds a much better team spirit and togetherness. There will be some frustrating times like we had at the begginning of the season but we are now (hopefully) starting to see more settled performances. Also gives the crowd a boost, nothing beats seeing a local lad who has come through the academy , probably a supporter of the club as well, scoring regularly or putting in decent performances.

Takes time, we may end up in the play offs, it may go tits up but it beats paying fat, lazy players who don't give a shit

Voice_of_Reason · Apr 6, 2016

Spot on Millwall FC

Otis · Apr 6, 2016

Yep, well said. Totally agree.

We have five 34 year olds and a 33 year old this season. Talk about short term fix!

lifeskyblue · Apr 6, 2016

Millwall FC said:
Loans and older players at the end of their career on short term contracts.

Not sure how many you have but they were a pain for us for a few years in the Championship. Yes it's a short term fix and it does work for some (Watford being one) but for us it was just getting in overpaid, overweight journeymen that really didn't give a shit about the club or young inexperienced kids from Premier League clubs, that in reality didn't really fancy it. Again, we had a few successes, Harry Kane, Andros Townsend and this season Jed Wallace but in the main it stunts the growth of your youth system.

When we went down last year we shed 20 players and went with fewer players, lots of home grown kids coming through. It breeds a much better team spirit and togetherness. There will be some frustrating times like we had at the begginning of the season but we are now (hopefully) starting to see more settled performances. Also gives the crowd a boost, nothing beats seeing a local lad who has come through the academy , probably a supporter of the club as well, scoring regularly or putting in decent performances.

Takes time, we may end up in the play offs, it may go tits up but it beats paying fat, lazy players who don't give a shit

I agree. I think it went wrong for us when we brought in Cole, Hunt and ramage; all players that have had success in their careers and in the first two cases in the twilight of their playing days. They have added nothing to the squad.
However I disagree with premiership youth lions...Armstrong and Kent were good loans and actually I believe added to the spirit in the camp.

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