What happened to Haskell? (1 Viewer)

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

The Gentleman said:
I cannot be arsed arguing with you and to be honest there is nothing to argue about because your answers agree with my quote in that we are in fact further down the pyramid than when Sisu took over. With regards to answering your posts, I can answer anyone I choose to whether it is your first or last. Whether you have reservations about Haskell or Byng and prefer Sisu that is your choice but ask yourself one question, if one of those two did get us would we be playing in Northampton? Finally you say CCFC was a ticking timebomb waiting to happen, I disagree because we were a good sized family based club with potential and the chance to buy into the Ricoh via the Higgs share. In 6/7 years what have Sisu done for us (see questions I raised in my previous post)? Then look at the model of Southmpton, they were in a similar situation to us in 2009, admin, L1, no owners and not long moved to a new ground. Look what they did in 3/4 years with a good owner, now I know people will say how much money Liebherr has, but if you look at the money Sisu have wasted and are still wasting which if their estimations are correct upwards of 100 million if you factor in the new ground and losses at Sixfields, why haven't they done it? This is why I take exceptions to you and some of your posts like Sisu will take us higher up the pyramid.

Okay firstly with Byng and PH4 you are looking to hindsight, yes I concur we may not of been playing in Northampton and frankly that would have been better for this Football club, but would we have to of accept another rent deal at the Arena? Would PH4/Byng of purchased the Higgs Share/Freehold? It's all hindsight, and in reality where we all live Byng couldn't send an E-Mail and PH4 has not been heard from (perhaps he had a letter from Sisu??).

Right okay I see your point in Southampton but by all means go and find the next wealthy owner to take Clubs over like ours or Portsmouth, Crystal Palace, Rangers, Exeter City, Newport County, Wycombe Wanderers, Bury and the list goes on.. Southampton had an infrastructure, there was an interview with Harry Redknapp on Soccer AM a few years back where he stated "If anyone came looking to me to buy a Football Club I would tell them to look at Southampton as everything is set up there and they have a great infrastructure". Now can you say hand on heart that Coventry City had an infrastructure like Southampton's?

Moff · Feb 14, 2014

Back on topic, will we get a jigsaw on 'Where's Haskell' like in 'Wheres Wally' except in this instance we have to find his face amongst lots of perma tanned Joe Elliot's and Ken Dulieus.......

sounds like a winner and I am off to the patent office now.

rondog1973 · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Noggin I understand where you are coming from but would you agree that a Club has to live within it's means? Now currently Sisu are investing a reported £3,000,000 a season while we tough it out Sixfields, now if we return to the Ricoh CCFC has to live within the revenue it generates which for any business is totally plausible, however we haven't been able to do that for several years, yes it impacts the playing squad, hence why we have had to cut costs, which is why we got relegated. Sisu don't want to keep chucking money into a bottomless pit, which is totally acceptable as they have found with experience (the RR Era) it doesn't always achieve results.

"Sisu don't want to keep chucking money into a bottomless pit"

An admission that NOPM is contributing to their exit?

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

duffer said:
Remind me again, why are we 'toughing' it out at Sixfields, when we could be at the Ricoh, right now, and doing much better financially?

We didn't have to end up where we are, and we certainly don't need to stay there - trying to defend SISU's actions by saying this is the only way the club can become viable isn't a tenable argument, imho.

We could but do we have the offer F&B revenues which the Club generates on the table? No, we don't and why should we go back if not all the revenue we generate is coming into the Club? Thank you McGinnity.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

duffer said:
I think there's an option (c) here that you've overlooking.

I think SISU are also likely to ditch the club at the point that they realise that the gamble has failed, they're still taking losses, and there's no scope of them creating something that will turn a quick profit.

I think that happens when (or if) they can't get their hands on the Ricoh on the cheap, can't bear to rent off ACL (at whatever cost), and can't afford to build a new stadium.

Sooner or later one of those scenarios (a, b, or c) will play out. Most likely after the JR path is exhausted, I'd think.

I think there's no doubt that PH4 wanted the club and at least a stake in the stadium. Obviously he wanted to make a profit, as do most owners. There's absolutely no evidence that he could have done better or worse than SISU, but at least he had the trust of the people he was dealing with at ACL, and on that basis alone probably a better chance of working out a deal that suited the club.

To be clear SISU could have had all that, a share in ACL and the club, and the chance to negotiate for more, had they not taken the disastrous path they followed.

I'm not sure that PH4 would've done better than SISU, but given where we are now it's hard to see how he could have done much worse!

Okay so lets say Option C is viable, why didn't they just recoup some money at Admin in the summer and go?

Again then Duffer if PH4 wanted a Football Club why not buy Leeds?

Jack Griffin · Feb 14, 2014

I don't think Byng was seriously interested in the Ricoh. This is his interest http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/bus...0-year-old-rail-track-could-re-opened-6482133

Personally I think he is more likely to be in cahoots with SISU and/or Joys other half about commercial development at the southern end of that scheme. Whether that involves CCFC or not remains an option in my opinion.

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Okay firstly with Byng and PH4 you are looking to hindsight, yes I concur we may not of been playing in Northampton and frankly that would have been better for this Football club, but would we have to of accept another rent deal at the Arena? Would PH4/Byng of purchased the Higgs Share/Freehold? It's all hindsight, and in reality where we all live Byng couldn't send an E-Mail and PH4 has not been heard from (perhaps he had a letter from Sisu??).

Right okay I see your point in Southampton but by all means go and find the next wealthy owner to take Clubs over like ours or Portsmouth, Crystal Palace, Rangers, Exeter City, Newport County, Wycombe Wanderers, Bury and the list goes on.. Southampton had an infrastructure, there was an interview with Harry Redknapp on Soccer AM a few years back where he stated "If anyone came looking to me to buy a Football Club I would tell them to look at Southampton as everything is set up there and they have a great infrastructure". Now can you say hand on heart that Coventry City had an infrastructure like Southampton's?

we arn't looking with hindsight because its the same now weather a new owner brought acl, or took a rent agreement with them it would be 100times better than we had now, I can't think of a single situation where a new owner wouldn't bring us straight back to coventry, there doesn't seem to be any chance a new owner could be as bad as sisu whoever they are.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
A club should live within their means, I don't accept this is what sisu are doing at all, they have deliberately hurt their revenues, the fact we are at sixfields is completely their fault.

You said you belive sisus plan is to get us to the championship to sell us, the evidence is that is simply not true in the slightest, getting us relegated could have easily been prevented and the 2 best chances at promotion have been squandered through their own deliberate actions and they have pretty much killed any chance of it next year already. If they wanted to get more of their money back by having us in the championship they should be doing ALOT differently.

It's sisus actions that are impacting the playing squad, it's sisus actions that are hurting our revenue, it's sisus actions that have us in northampton, there is zero chance of them getting anything like what they say they have invested back through anysort of normal means.

You don't defend sisu but you certainly look on what is happened in an overly positive and sympathetic light along with looking at what another owner would have done in an overly negative light. Even though the people who would have been likely to take us over would have also had their bottom line as the most important thing to them it's almost certainly the case we'd still be massively better off than we are.

Last season I concur, but this season absolutely not, our chances of promotion was ruined by ACL out of spite and spite only.

If we would of been so much better off with a PH4 or a Byng, explain to me then Noggin why neither has stepped forward to Sisu to discuss a sale with the Club further if both parties were desperate to acquire it?

Grendel · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
Thats why I said if they had paid acl what they owed with a little investment we'd have had a great chance of promotion, but lets get this straight, the 10 point deduction is 100% sisus fault. They deliberately didn't pay what they were legally required too even when ordered too by a judge and even though they could and despite the fact that not doing so was even more costly.

They did agree to pay back what was owed ACL rejected it and have said its nothing to do with money owed. Stop spinning and defending the scum.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
we arn't looking with hindsight because its the same now weather a new owner brought acl, or took a rent agreement with them it would be 100times better than we had now, I can't think of a single situation where a new owner wouldn't bring us straight back to coventry, there doesn't seem to be any chance a new owner could be as bad as sisu whoever they are.

Do you think then that Sisu wouldn't bring us back to Coventry then like any other owner if the opportunity wasn't there? What tennancy deal in which we do not have rightful access to our revenues help our Football Club, yes McGinnity sold them, but he had no right to sell them.

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Last season I concur, but this season absolutely not, our chances of promotion was ruined by ACL out of spite and spite only.

If we would of been so much better off with a PH4 or a Byng, explain to me then Noggin why neither has stepped forward to Sisu to discuss a sale with the Club further if both parties were desperate to acquire it?

No thats complete rubbish, even if acl's only reason for not taking the cva was spite it would still be completely sisus fault.

As for your second line huh? I've never said anyone was desperate to acquire anything and we saw that people were interested in buying the club and put bids in, we also saw it was impossible to win these bids because of the situation sisu had engineered. The simple fact of the matter is if sisu put the club up for sale at the price it's worth (which is very very little) then someone would buy it and it's almost certainly the case whoever that someone was, even though that someone would mostly care about themselves that it would make us MUCH MUCH MUCH better off than we are now.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Last season I concur, but this season absolutely not, our chances of promotion was ruined by ACL out of spite and spite only

FFS, jack it in. How many times do people have to explain the director's fiduciary responsibility to their own limited business, and their view that the administration was flawed - and they weren't alone in that view - as the reasons they rejected the CVA.

You may not agree with the explanations, that's your prerogative; but to incessantly state that the only motivation was spite in the face of such explanations is tiresome and childish in the extreme

duffer · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Okay so lets say Option C is viable, why didn't they just recoup some money at Admin in the summer and go?

Again then Duffer if PH4 wanted a Football Club why not buy Leeds?

I don't quite understand your use of the word viable here. Sooner or later it may become a reality though. If SISU fail in the JR, and ACL survives, SISU will be faced with mounting losses and the commitment to build a new stadium. At that point it could be selling and cutting their losses really is their only option. We're not at that point yet though.

With regard to your questions:

1) I'm assuming because they want to break ACL and presumably get the Ricoh on the cheap. Current evidence, like the refusal to go back there and play, would seem to back that up. Regardless, it would seem that they changed a lot of things prior to administration so that they could hold on to the club.

2) Buying Leeds isn't that straightforward perhaps. Check the recent news. All of the evidence suggests that he wanted the football club and a share in the stadium, but you're ignoring that simply because he didn't buy Leeds. That seems a little odd, to me.

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
Do you think then that Sisu wouldn't bring us back to Coventry then like any other owner if the opportunity wasn't there? What tennancy deal in which we do not have rightful access to our revenues help our Football Club, yes McGinnity sold them, but he had no right to sell them.

seriously what the hell? the opportunity to bring us back is there, the oppertunity not to take us away in the first place was there, what they have done and continue to do is complete nuts in regards for doing whats best for the football club.

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

Grendel said:
They did agree to pay back what was owed ACL rejected it and have said its nothing to do with money owed. Stop spinning and defending the scum.

That's not even close to true, they were offered 25% of what they were owed and they were offered a few hundred k in compensation for the canceling of a lease worth tens of millions.

rondog1973 · Feb 14, 2014

Skyblueweeman said:
Sell CCFC as a club with a stadium which will be easier than selling CCFC without a stadium?!

WM

Would love to believe this to be the case-Sisu unite club and stadium and sell on- but I don't.

I don't think they have any plans/ambitions for CCFC if they obtain freehold ownership of the Ricoh. I'd speculate they would possibly sell the complex on for retail development.

Think about it....

They are demanding freehold ownership of the complex.
The string puller is on record as stating she know's nothing/has no interest in football.
It would take a good deal of investment to get us back to top flight football.
The site has excellent transport links-M6 motorway/Train line with station to be built.

My guess is they would sell it to retail developers who would bulldoze the stadium to make way for a complex a la Bluewater in Kent. There is already substantial retail development at the site which could be expanded on. Look at Meadowhall in Sheffield, in the retail desert that is Coventry, I think potential investors would be more inclined to pursue that line of enterprise.

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
FFS, jack it in. How many times do people have to explain the director's fiduciary responsibility to their own limited business, and their view that the administration was flawed - and they weren't alone in that view - as the reasons they rejected the CVA.

You may not agree with the explanations, that's your prerogative; but to incessantly state that the only motivation was spite in the face of such explanations is tiresome and childish in the extreme

and even if he were right (and there isn't any evidence that he is) and acl were being spiteful it would still be completely sisus fault for engineering that situation when they had dozens of chances for it not to get to that position.

duffer · Feb 14, 2014

RoboCCFC90 said:
We could but do we have the offer F&B revenues which the Club generates on the table? No, we don't and why should we go back if not all the revenue we generate is coming into the Club? Thank you McGinnity.

How about answering some straight questions without looking into the past:

Could we make more money for the club by being at the Ricoh right now, or not?

Does making more money, right now, make us more viable, or less viable?

DazzleTommyDazzle · Feb 14, 2014

Grendel said:
Stop spinning and defending the scum.

I'd have to say that I agree with the sentiment - just have a different view about the target

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 14, 2014

Grendel said:
They did agree to pay back what was owed ACL rejected it and have said its nothing to do with money owed. Stop spinning and defending the scum.

Frankly incredible. That you'll call ACL 'scum'; but have no such criticism of the owners who have - for no good reason - overseen our demise to our worst league position for two generations, playing football in a third-rate ground almost 40 miles away, with the smallest crowds in the third division of English football.

You're either delusional, or a troll. I don't know which

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Frankly incredible. That you'll call ACL 'scum'; but have no such criticism of the owners who have - for no good reason - overseen our demise to our worst league position for two generations, playing football in a third-rate ground almost 40 miles away, with the smallest crowds in the third division of English football.

You're either delusional, or a troll. I don't know which

He is a troll, he's pretty much admitted him and his friends at work take great pleasure in laughing at wound up people on the forum, weather or not he is delusional and believes some of the stuff he writes as well as being a troll though I'm not sure.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
He is a troll, he's pretty much admitted him and his friends at work take great pleasure in laughing at wound up people on the forum, weather or not he is delusional and believes some of the stuff he writes as well as being a troll though I'm not sure.

He should either get a life, or a better job then. Or maybe the mindset that leads him to think his 'work' on here is a positive or entertaining thing in any way precludes the latter

Nick · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
He is a troll, he's pretty much admitted him and his friends at work take great pleasure in laughing at wound up people on the forum, weather or not he is delusional and believes some of the stuff he writes as well as being a troll though I'm not sure.

Have you got a link?

Hobo · Feb 14, 2014

Nick said:
Have you got a link?

Yeah Neanderthal Man.

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

Nick said:
Have you got a link?

he was talking about the thread he started on the sunderland forums, so while it's not an admission of trolling here it's certainly an admission that sort of thing gives him and his friends pleasure and strongly infurs (when combined with how he posts here) that is what he is doing, it's extremely clear to see that he deliberately misrepresents people to wind them up.

The Gentleman · Feb 14, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Frankly incredible. That you'll call ACL 'scum'; but have no such criticism of the owners who have - for no good reason - overseen our demise to our worst league position for two generations, playing football in a third-rate ground almost 40 miles away, with the smallest crowds in the third division of English football.

You're either delusional, or a troll. I don't know which

I actually see Grendel more like Jack Nicholson's character in the film As Good As It Gets, twisted view of the world but so right in his eyes. Great film by the way.

Nick · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
he was talking about the thread he started on the sunderland forums, so while it's not an admission of trolling here it's certainly an admission that sort of thing gives him and his friends pleasure and strongly infurs (when combined with how he posts here) that is what he is doing, it's extremely clear to see that he deliberately misrepresents people to wind them up.

So he hasn't actually said anything of the sort? That is your opinion?

Noggin · Feb 14, 2014

Nick said:
So he hasn't actually said anything of the sort? That is your opinion?

No, I said he has admitted he is a troll, which he has, he just hasn't admitted that he is a troll here. But his behaviour here + the fact he has admitted he is a troll makes it extremely likely he is a troll here. It takes a certain type of person to find upsetting and angering people funny, him and his mates are that kind of person.

duffer · Feb 14, 2014

Nick said:
So he hasn't actually said anything of the sort? That is your opinion?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck etc.

Anyway, regardless of definitions I've found that by far most relaxing course of action is to simply ignore him. So that's what I've done. I'm a much happier person for it.

Nick · Feb 14, 2014

duffer said:
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck etc.

Anyway, regardless of definitions I've found that by far most relaxing course of action is to simply ignore him. So that's what I've done. I'm a much happier person for it.

The best way

Jack Griffin · Feb 14, 2014

duffer said:
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck etc.

Anyway, regardless of definitions I've found that by far most relaxing course of action is to simply ignore him. So that's what I've done. I'm a much happier person for it.

Ditto, it works.

duffer · Feb 14, 2014

Nick said:
The best way

In fairness, he probably thinks the same about me. I wouldn't blame anyone who wanted to ignore me either! Even the people who live in my house ignore me, especially if the subject turns to CCFC.

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
No thats complete rubbish, even if acl's only reason for not taking the cva was spite it would still be completely sisus fault.

As for your second line huh? I've never said anyone was desperate to acquire anything and we saw that people were interested in buying the club and put bids in, we also saw it was impossible to win these bids because of the situation sisu had engineered. The simple fact of the matter is if sisu put the club up for sale at the price it's worth (which is very very little) then someone would buy it and it's almost certainly the case whoever that someone was, even though that someone would mostly care about themselves that it would make us MUCH MUCH MUCH better off than we are now.

There is no guarantee we could be MUCH MUCH MUCH better off with another owner, so what your saying is Sisu should not ask for the price that they feel the Club is worth, yet you're insistent on Sisu paying the Full price for Sisu but happy for Sisu to knock down their price for the Club? :thinking about:

RoboCCFC90 · Feb 14, 2014

Noggin said:
seriously what the hell? the opportunity to bring us back is there, the oppertunity not to take us away in the first place was there, what they have done and continue to do is complete nuts in regards for doing whats best for the football club.

Yes as tennants, with no access to matchday revenues generated by the Club, it's a mouth watering pospect.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Feb 14, 2014

ccfclinney said:
Just been thinking the last I heard of this guy he was trying to buy half the ground, then it never happened and it all went very quiet ! Did anyone ever hear anything after that! What could have been if Appleton chose him !! (Clown)

I reckon he is drinking in the Bullshitters saloon....he's in a round with Hoffman, Dihnsa, Alki Dave & Byng.....

...lets just hope they are paying as they go, because if its on a tab, the landlord of the bullshitters saloon is fucked!

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