What are the consequences if SISU now liquidate Ltd to avoid the rental lease? (11 Viewers)

[SkyBlueSwiss]

I seem to remember Leeds tried this trick and got heavily punished for it, and the FL then changed their rules?

I may well have some points wrong, but to me it appears that SISU have basically done the following:
- per the published accounts for the prior year (the latest ac counts that we have), all of the business was in CCFC Ltd., as was the lease.
- while SISU were still in negotiations with ACL, SISU moved all of the assets, players registrations etc. from Ltd. to Holdings, leaving just the lease and the debt (and the Golden Share - but not on purpose) in Ltd.
- SISU, while still in negotiations with ACL, employed specialist estate agents to start looking for suitable properties to build a new stadium.
- SISU threatened that it would have no option but to liquidate, forcing ACL to apply for administration. SISU then put the club into admin itself at the last minute. Anyone who believes that this was not planned by SISU to try and put the blame for administration onto ACL needs to take another look at exactly what happened.
- the SISU-appointed administrator chooses Otium - a company in the process of being struck off, with no assets and not having published accounts on a timely basis - as the best bid.
- the administrator does not sell CCFC Ltd. to Otium. They cherry-picked the items to be sold, leaving Ltd. basically with just the rental lease.
- it is quite clear that once this process has been completed, CCFC Ltd. will be liquidated, thus legally avoiding any further liability under the rental lease.
-I am leaving the deliberate stressing of ACL, judicial revue, trying to get the Ricoh on the cheap etc. out of this as that will not concern the league.

Now surely even the most avid pro-SISU fan must recognise that this has all been planned specifically to get rid of the lease. No matter how pro-SISU you are, the facts cannot be denied.
So now we have to ask ourselves, will the Football League for the sake of not causing waves "accept" that SISU did all this "in good faith", or will they acknowledge that SISU did this to void the lease?
If the Football League acknowledge the facts of the matter, then our club would probably be in deep, deep trouble. I have no idea what the penalty would be, but I can imagine it would be severe, and might lead to being dropped a couple of divisions?
Then there is the political impact. Politicians at various levels are becoming ever more aware of what has been going on, and generally they seem disgusted by the way a hedge fund has acted in football circles. I cannot imagine that they will let this continue if the league do not make a harsh example of our club. This has all become too public for someone not to take punitive action against SISU and/or our club.
The problem with that is, it is - as always - us fans that bear the brunt of the punitive actions.

I do not know enough about league rules or the laws of the land to properly judge where we are going with this, but I worry greatly as to the consequences that we fans are going to be forced to suffer.

 

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[Jack Griffin]

Pretty much concurs with my thoughts, you just missed out the rent strike as a means to trigger the actions and they may have even allowed OTIUM to enter the initial stages of being struck off as a company to allay suspicions about its use, so it may goes back even as far as the formation of that company, which was under Orange Ken. They've definitely had administration experts on board for a considerable time.

I think it goes back to Timmy's arrival.

 

[Bill Glazier]

Good summary. The FL are in deep trouble if they allow Sisu to get away with this

 

[Noggin]

if ACL accept the cva the lease is broken, the cva contains compensation for the lease, pitiful compensation though

 

[Fedupskybluesfan]

What you forgot to say is that ACL called off the negotiations 4 days before they filed there accounts which were signed off by accountants and the board of directors but stated they were still in negotiations???? Falsely giving information in the accounts that they would be receiving payments.

Is this legal???

 

[wingy]

What you forgot to say is that ACL called off the negotiations 4 days before they filed there accounts which were signed off by accountants and the board of directors but stated they were still in negotiations???? Falsely giving information in the accounts that they would be receiving payments.

Is this legal???

Can you ask them the next time you see them ,when they are going to publish the fan survey results?:thinking about:

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

What you forgot to say is that ACL called off the negotiations 4 days before they filed there accounts which were signed off by accountants and the board of directors but stated they were still in negotiations???? Falsely giving information in the accounts that they would be receiving payments.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Is this legal???

Certainly no more illegal than using a Vat number on a non trading company.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Can you ask them the next time you see them ,when they are going to publish the fan survey results?:thinking about:

Surely theyve published them Wingy? They must have oh yes youre right they haven't. I was just having the the same thought as you. Also have you noticed the dates some on here joined but have only just started to post:thinking about:Seems Otium wasnt the only thing set up and left dormant:thinking about:I may be wrong What are your wise thoughts?

 

[wingy]

Surely theyve published them Wingy? They must have oh yes youre right they haven't. I was just having the the same thought as you. Also have you noticed the dates some on here joined but have only just started to post:thinking about:Seems Otium wasnt the only thing set up and left dormant:thinking about:I may be wrong What are your wise thoughts?

Open to scrutiny BHSB.

 

[Fedupskybluesfan]

Nice to see you can check up on certain things but are blind to the facts, I do not work for SISU or ever plan to. I have a vested interest as a relative works for COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB and do not want to see them out of a job. I want CCFC to play in Coventry as much as the next person but on here there seems to be a lot of people who only look at one side. Why are people not campaigning against ACL or the Council as they are the only ones who can make this happen. My point is that ACL say they can play there only while in Admin. If you want them to play there ask them to go back to the table and come up with a deal which will see revenues go to CCFC not all to the ACL/ CCC.

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

Nice to see you can check up on certain things but are blind to the facts, I do not work for SISU or ever plan to. I have a vested interest as a relative works for COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB and do not want to see them out of a job. I want CCFC to play in Coventry as much as the next person but on here there seems to be a lot of people who only look at one side. Why are people not campaigning against ACL or the Council as they are the only ones who can make this happen. My point is that ACL say they can play there only while in Admin. If you want them to play there ask them to go back to the table and come up with a deal which will see revenues go to CCFC not all to the ACL/ CCC.

They already did and sisu said no.

 

[wingy]

Nice to see you can check up on certain things but are blind to the facts, I do not work for SISU or ever plan to. I have a vested interest as a relative works for COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB and do not want to see them out of a job. I want CCFC to play in Coventry as much as the next person but on here there seems to be a lot of people who only look at one side. Why are people not campaigning against ACL or the Council as they are the only ones who can make this happen. My point is that ACL say they can play there only while in Admin. If you want them to play there ask them to go back to the table and come up with a deal which will see revenues go to CCFC not all to the ACL/ CCC.

The club have CWR to serve that role.

 

[true sky blue]

if acl dont accept the cva along with others we go into admin for a longer period/// more points docked! acl are already stating the club will be in admin form many months to come

 

[James Smith]

What you forgot to say is that ACL called off the negotiations 4 days before they filed there accounts which were signed off by accountants and the board of directors but stated they were still in negotiations???? Falsely giving information in the accounts that they would be receiving payments.

Is this legal???

Just a thought but is when the accounts are filed and when they they are signed off the same day? If not could the four days be explained that way?

 

[ArchieLittle]

From the OP.
I don't think the golden share being left was a mistake.
It was the one transfer that HAD to be in the public domain, the league would have had to be notified and that would have tipped their hand.

 

[rupert_bear]

Appleton has already hinted liquidation of ccfc ltd could happen. Talking today someone put it to me that sisu could vote down the cva and force liquidation especially if this ground share doesn't happen, exactly what that would do who knows. There are so many possible twists and turns still to happen for sure.

 

[wingy]

Appleton has already hinted liquidation of ccfc ltd could happen. Talking today someone put it to me that sisu could vote down the cva and force liquidation especially if this ground share doesn't happen, exactly what that would do who knows. There are so many possible twists and turns still to happen for sure.

They could have no case then to stop the Admin from selling It on to one of the original bidders ,Surely??

 

[Jack Griffin]

From the OP.
I don't think the golden share being left was a mistake.
It was the one transfer that HAD to be in the public domain, the league would have had to be notified and that would have tipped their hand.

Don't think it had to be in public domain until publication of FL yearbook, but the FL have to approve a transfer.

Remember their line has been "we thought it was in CCFC (H) Ltd & the records are a mess.."

All I know is that I'll never find out the truth & nor will you.

 

[rupert_bear]

They could have no case then to stop the Admin from selling It on to one of the original bidders ,Surely??

No one seems to know for sure if ccfc ltd got liquidated what happens then.

 

[wingy]

Appleton has already hinted liquidation of ccfc ltd could happen. Talking today someone put it to me that sisu could vote down the cva and force liquidation especially if this ground share doesn't happen, exactly what that would do who knows. There are so many possible twists and turns still to happen for sure.

sorry then ,thought you meant Liquidate everything .:facepalm:

 

[blend]

Apart from the points deduction, is there any penalty for SISU if they do liquidate CCFC LTD? I think this is actually there plan all along. FL rules are pretty strong on all football creditors being paid in full. Will SISU try and get away without paying the bomb squad off? They are properly taking the piss out of the FL if so, like OP says surely they cannot get away with it. Likely that this is the case that leads to government involvement in football, unless the FL can somehow enforce their rules. Don't see that they'll win against the all conquering uncaring SISU juggernaut.

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Apart from the points deduction, is there any penalty for SISU if they do liquidate CCFC LTD? I think this is actually there plan all along. FL rules are pretty strong on all football creditors being paid in full. Will SISU try and get away without paying the bomb squad off? They are properly taking the piss out of the FL if so, like OP says surely they cannot get away with it. Likely that this is the case that leads to government involvement in football, unless the FL can somehow enforce their rules. Don't see that they'll win against the all conquering uncaring SISU juggernaut.

Sisu's business is to take over failing businesses, repair them then sell off for a profit!
That's why now is not the time to sell, as not repaired or profitable!
To repair, they need to cut losses & make income!
Thanks to Richardson/Robinson & Mcginnity amongst others, this club is in a mess.
Yes Sisu behave disgracefully but you don't achieve by being nice in the industry they are in!
By having own stadium & getting 100% income, better players can be bought. Fan base will increase, more exposure means more sponserships & more revenue!
Hopefully resulting in promotion!
Maybe then, Joy won't be scared to speak with her customers?
I get what Fisher is saying, but i also get why fans are angry!
Having a faceless owner ignore, is not right!
To get better, we need to go through some crap!
Sisu are not stupid! They know exactly what they are doing, as this is their domain!
Didn't Joy thank Onye & Ken when they left after putting the final pieces in place with Otium!
So far, everything has been in Sisu's favour! They have ran rings around the Council!
Don't bet against them getting the Ricoh too!

 

[Paxman II]

Son of snoz you might well be right but I sincerely hope SISU as such never get to own the stadium.

I have repeatedly said on here a deal ought to be sought where the football club own the stadium not necessarily the football clubs owners.
That sounds twisted at first thought but think about it. The lease over 99 years for example could be granted to the football club at an agreed rental and a premium paid for the lease hold interest which would include the operation of the Ricoh from top to bottom including all sub leases etc giving them control of the main asset. Only one party can control the stadiums destiny, you can't have two companies doing it together as there would be disagreement.
This asset can be never be re assigned to another party with out council approval in exceptional circumstances. The value of the leasehold interest would be granted to the football club owners when they sell the football club but the lease would merely remain in the football clubs hands.
Not sure if a deal like this can be done legally though as normally having a lease means you get to assign it to someone else.

Not withstanding that just sell the bloody thing! What price is on the councils books? £30? (I think probably less actually) £40m?
I'm sure SISU would be all over it and so would many others too. But SISU would then sell on and go.

 

[SonOfSnoz]

We need to unite Ricoh with CCFC. If Sisu manage that, i'd be delighted!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Sisu's business is to take over failing businesses, repair them then sell off for a profit!
That's why now is not the time to sell, as not repaired or profitable!
To repair, they need to cut losses & make income!
Thanks to Richardson/Robinson & Mcginnity amongst others, this club is in a mess.
Yes Sisu behave disgracefully but you don't achieve by being nice in the industry they are in!
By having own stadium & getting 100% income, better players can be bought. Fan base will increase, more exposure means more sponserships & more revenue!
Hopefully resulting in promotion!
Maybe then, Joy won't be scared to speak with her customers?
I get what Fisher is saying, but i also get why fans are angry!
Having a faceless owner ignore, is not right!
To get better, we need to go through some crap!
Sisu are not stupid! They know exactly what they are doing, as this is their domain!
Didn't Joy thank Onye & Ken when they left after putting the final pieces in place with Otium!
So far, everything has been in Sisu's favour! They have ran rings around the Council!
Don't bet against them getting the Ricoh too!

The fact is sisu knew what they were buying when they took on the club (ie club with no stadium). It's been badly mismanaged ever since (whether this has been intentional or not who knows, but I doubt it).

They appear to only have ever been in it to get their hands on the ricoh. They haven't managed that to date and appear to act more irrationally as time goes on.

If they have a genuine plan to build a stadium for the club then fantastic, unfortunately I just don't see it happening or how that can suddenly ensure they get all of their money back. By the time it happens god knows what league we'd be in !

If they had that sort of cash surely there are better clubs (with stadiums) to buy and/or invest in ?!

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

We need to unite Ricoh with CCFC. If Sisu manage that, i'd be delighted!

Of course you would be delighted:facepalm:

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

We need to unite Ricoh with CCFC. If Sisu manage that, i'd be delighted![/QUOTE

Exactly, because SISU would then sell up and we would have new owners, with CCFC and Ricoh as one.

 

[true sky blue]

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petiti...ners-of-ccfc-moving-the-club-out-of-coventry#

 

[Jack Griffin]

Just a thought, which company holds the contracts & registrations of the bomb squad?

Could they be trying to break the contracts of the more expensive players too?

 

[Bluegloucester]

Good summary. The FL are in deep trouble if they allow Sisu to get away with this

Who are they in deep trouble with? It's their game!

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Who are they in deep trouble with? It's their game!

I think he might be referring to the fact that the government are threatening to step in and regulate football if the Football League do not clean up their act. He might therefore be intimating that this SISU "scandal" could be the straw that breaks the camel's back and leads to the government taking action to clean up football in Britain, especially as it has already been brought up in Parliament and is gaining ever-wider media attention as the saga progresses.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think he might be referring to the fact that the government are threatening to step in and regulate football if the Football League do not clean up their act. He might therefore be intimating that this SISU "scandal" could be the straw that breaks the camel's back and leads to the government taking action to clean up football in Britain, especially as it has already been brought up in Parliament and is gaining ever-wider media attention as the saga progresses.

If the government interferes with the running of the game it will get England banned from international football. Actually that wouldn't be so bad...

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

If the government interferes with the running of the game it will get England banned from international football. Actually that wouldn't be so bad...

But then we are getting into the discussion as to whether such bodies as FIFA should be exempt from the laws that all others have to follow, and that would mean cleaning up Sepp Blatter, Fifa and all the rest of world football. Good luck with that one.
By the way, would that mean that Qatar would then not be a world cup venue after all?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But then we are getting into the discussion as to whether such bodies as FIFA should be exempt from the laws that all others have to follow, and that would mean cleaning up Sepp Blatter, Fifa and all the rest of world football. Good luck with that one.
By the way, would that mean that Qatar would then not be a world cup venue after all?

FIFA govern football and if we want to be members we play by their rules.