west brom at the ricoh (2 Viewers)

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RegTheDonk

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
See, mess left by previous Goverment. Do you really think labour would have done any better if they had stayed in power. Part of the reason the cuts had to be made as hard and fast as they were is because the labour goverment didn't go far enough or soon enough as they had one eye on the election and were trying to give the impression things were not as bad as they were. I dont recall which Labour minister it was who said it but it was about 6months before the general election when they said " we are beginning to see the green shoots of recovery" only to be promptly shot down by economist who were quick to point out that far from it as we weren't even at the bottom of the cycle (to coin a phrase). Thern there was the note that the incomming minister found his labour predecesor "good luck, all the moneys gone"

compare that to the health of the country John Majors goverment handed over, Labour did well to fcuk it up as much as they did. Remember also Mr Browns "this is the end of boom and bust" statement just before it went bust.

Mr Grandad who was a union man but always voted Tory told me at a young age that you'll have good years under labour but the tories always have to clean up the mess they leave. this is no different.
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Politicians quote whatever figures suit them I'm affriad. Osborne was bigging up some figures last week, until some economist pointed out another way of interpreting them.

Not sticking up for Labour, they all have their own faults and agendas. But to suggest John Major handed over a healthy country is barmy. We may have not had as much debt, but every year we had our budgets cut. Every year we were heard about longer waiting lists, price hikes. Seemed Essex Man was the only person doing OK thanks.

The whys and wheres of how bad things have got can't be simplified. There are thousands of variables, mistakes made, policies that needs to be changed. Not one party, left right or centre, can sort it out without alienating a good proportion of the people.

A bit like CCFC .... see, thread back on track!
 
S

SkyBlueScottie

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
As for the tories battering the poor. Despite the fact that I've had to accept a pay freeze for the last 4 years and earning less than £20k a year I have more money in my pay packet now than I did under the last labour government thanks to this tory government raising the tax threshold.
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Which was more of a concession to the Lib Dems to help get a foot in the door...
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
As for the tories battering the poor. Despite the fact that I've had to accept a pay freeze for the last 4 years and earning less than £20k a year I have more money in my pay packet now than I did under the last labour government thanks to this tory government raising the tax threshold.
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The raising of the income tax threshold was a Lib Dem idea... it was in their manifesto. It only happened to the extent it has due to the coalition agreement.
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
fernandopartridge said:
It's gone way beyond this cuts for the sake of driving out mythical inefficiencies. These are now cuts to services. Your council tax goes up every year but you get less in return.
George Osborne has borrowed more in 4 years than Labour did in 13.
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I thought the council tax had been frozen since the Tories got in..before that Labour controlled councils had a track record of above inflation increases.
https://www.gov.uk/government/polic...for-money/supporting-pages/council-tax-freeze
 
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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
See, mess left by previous Goverment. Do you really think labour would have done any better if they had stayed in power. Part of the reason the cuts had to be made as hard and fast as they were is because the labour goverment didn't go far enough or soon enough as they had one eye on the election and were trying to give the impression things were not as bad as they were. I dont recall which Labour minister it was who said it but it was about 6months before the general election when they said " we are beginning to see the green shoots of recovery" only to be promptly shot down by economist who were quick to point out that far from it as we weren't even at the bottom of the cycle (to coin a phrase). Thern there was the note that the incomming minister found his labour predecesor "good luck, all the moneys gone"

compare that to the health of the country John Majors goverment handed over, Labour did well to fcuk it up as much as they did. Remember also Mr Browns "this is the end of boom and bust" statement just before it went bust.

Mr Grandad who was a union man but always voted Tory told me at a young age that you'll have good years under labour but the tories always have to clean up the mess they leave. this is no different.
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I'm no great fan of Labour, but this was a world-wide catastrophe caused by casino banking and hedge-fund practices. They had a share of the blame, for sure, but to put it all at their door isn't logical. Do you think that a Conservative government, with an inherent dislike for state-regulation of anything, would have behaved any differently with regard to regulating the banks?

As far as paying for the "mess" (which presumably includes the good stuff like better schools, higher employment, lower poverty, and a much-improved NHS) - who is doing that exactly do you think?

It's just that from where I'm sitting, the very wealthiest in our society and all those who have benefitted most from the boom years and the deregulation, don't seem to be suffering quite as much as those who gained very little from it. In fact, they're not suffering at all - they're getting proportionally richer whilst everyone else is getting proportionally poorer. Does that strike you as a fair way to pay for the 'mess'?

My grandad was undoubtedly a union man too and I'm sure he told me lots of things, but as I grew up I looked at the evidence and decided my politics for myself.

What I can see is a country that puts a Tory government in from time-to-time, and then begins to notice how much worse and more corrupt things can be under them (especially for the poor, the unemployed, or the ill). When things start to become insufferable, they generally get kicked out.

Anyhow, that's it. I really am leaving it. Sorry.
 
lordsummerisle

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
The global financial crisis was caused by the banking laws being relaxed most notably in the USA but good old Tony Blair followed George W Bush like a love lost puppy. So yes the former labour government are to blame as they relaxed the laws that allowed UK banks to be exposed to not only what was happening elsewhere but also the mental risks that they were now allowed to take under UK law.
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And the Tories at the time were calling for more de-regulation of the banking sector.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Shame the Low paid jobs don't get the support from the Tax credit system any more ,or at least not to the same level.

Now that was a job generator,and kept families above the bread line.
 
Jim

Jim

Well-Known Member
Not that this thread should be about politics but.....

Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it. The fact of the matter is that whilst individuals may have been better off under the labour government, the economy of the country as a whole disappeared down the toilet and now we are reaping the benefits. The conservatives invariably end up having the fix the state of the economy for the good of the country but this leaves group and individuals out of pocket and therefore unhappy and results in Labour being voted back in and the cycle repeats. This has happened the last three cycles of government since the 70's.

It's like blasting your credit card for years and then complaining because you actually have to pay it back.....

There are so many different groups that want a slice of government funding, so where do you draw the line?

If you cut non-essential services like arts, sports, libraries etc then people moan that we are losing our creativity or passion, but then it will be the same people complaining that the roads arent fixed or the bins emptied because we are trying to fund non-essentials.

The balancing act is incredibly difficult and no one party is going to get it right due mainly because a party of comprimise would a) never get voted in and b) would in reality end up doing a worse job than either Conservative or Labour.
 
Jim

Jim

Well-Known Member
As for the Ricoh, the funding will not have effected services as it is covered by its own loan.

I believe the JR statement from the Judge gave a figure for the rates charged and the council made a margin of either 1 or 2% I think, but would nee to check the document to be certain. Therefore this is actually generating cash for the council to provide services.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
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