west brom at the ricoh (2 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

Maybe it didn't. But the average bloke in the street doesn't feel the same way about the Council that you do. They will see cuts, closure of the pool and redundancies on one hand and a nice fat bail-out to ACL on the other for a stadium that isn't even being used.

#

Stop this crap, refinancing ACL took nothing away from services. In fact it's due to make millions in profit. It probably saved services.

Look, if you have to exaggerate and make shit up to make your point, maybe you don't have a point?

 

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[italiahorse]

Just a bit strange especially after I've read about another 1000 jobs going to save £60m.do you really believe hand on heart that ACL will survive over ten years and on the flip side ccfc will survive in the same period with the current circumstance.all they need to is to agree a rent where everyone is happy,sounds simple doesn't it.

It would be the ideal time to sell the stadium similar to Birmingham council and the NEC but the absence of the club and SISU not willing to pay a reasonable price means we are in no mans land.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I have just been made redundant for the third time that's life.

To be fair the mortgage money the council are getting from the Ricoh probably saved a couple of jobs,

Coventry City moving away lost us far more jobs but then again why should Sisu care?

Ah yes, "different pots". As I said, I'm sure that will be of some comfort to those being made redundant.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Sorry typical bullshit reply cc tax payers are benefiting from the mortgage repayments and not selling Assets on the cheap to a lying cheating hedgefund.
As for a rental agreement you can't force someone to rent a stadium if they don't want to?

"Someone like me", eh?

I'm happy for the football club to be given access to the "council asset". Whether that's through a rental deal or some other way. Because at the moment, who is actually getting anything from this "asset". Maybe you'd like to tell me why that £14M was well spent and how you and other Coventry taxpayers have benefited.

 

[RegTheDonk]

It would be the ideal time to sell the stadium similar to Birmingham council and the NEC but the absence of the club and SISU not willing to pay a reasonable price means we are in no mans land.

I dunno, I have Fishers "you dont sell at the bottom of a cycle" ringing through my ears - he must surely know what business is all about. I wonder if some fool wafted £30M in front of him he'd refuse? Agree with SISU not wanting to pay the going rate though.

I can't believe Brum council really want to sell the NEC, despite their PR about needing investment and its time to move on .... they need money to pay off some equal opportunities lawsuit, presumably this is the easiest way to get the cash.

 

[shmmeee]

OK, let's make this simple.

Let's say you earn £10k a year and you employ 10 people at £1k a year.

Then you take a loan out, and immediately loan that money to your friend who will be paying you more in interest than you are paying the bank.

You now earn (say) £10.5k a year thanks to the extra interest.

Why would you be making someone redundant?

I don't know if you've had your head in the sand for the last 4 years but we have a Conservative government that is on an ideological war on both public spending and local councils. Maybe that's more relevant for those people made redundant.

Unless you're implying that CCC are the only council in the country to make people redundant. Are you?

 

[Grendel]

OK, let's make this simple.

Let's say you earn £10k a year and you employ 10 people at £1k a year.

Then you take a loan out, and immediately loan that money to your friend who will be paying you more in interest than you are paying the bank.

You now earn (say) £10.5k a year thanks to the extra interest.

Why would you be making someone redundant?

I don't know if you've had your head in the sand for the last 4 years but we have a Conservative government that is on an ideological war on both public spending and local councils. Maybe that's more relevant for those people made redundant.

Unless you're implying that CCC are the only council in the country to make people redundant. Are you?

Are they receiving more than they are borrowing the money for? If so what is the borrowing rate and what is the lending rate?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

That is exactly what he is implying, he should look closer to home and his own Council in Warwickshire and stop worrying about ours.

OK, let's make this simple.

Let's say you earn £10k a year and you employ 10 people at £1k a year.

Then you take a loan out, and immediately loan that money to your friend who will be paying you more in interest than you are paying the bank.

You now earn (say) £10.5k a year thanks to the extra interest.

Why would you be making someone redundant?

I don't know if you've had your head in the sand for the last 4 years but we have a Conservative government that is on an ideological war on both public spending and local councils. Maybe that's more relevant for those people made redundant.

Unless you're implying that CCC are the only council in the country to make people redundant. Are you?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Yes and every Council in the land has been hit with the same lawsuit.

Some Councils saw it coming and have already settled Coventry being one of them.

Birmingham held out and now have a double whamming EO and redundancies.

I dunno, I have Fishers "you dont sell at the bottom of a cycle" ringing through my ears - he must surely know what business is all about. I wonder if some fool wafted £30M in front of him he'd refuse? Agree with SISU not wanting to pay the going rate though.

I can't believe Brum council really want to sell the NEC, despite their PR about needing investment and its time to move on .... they need money to pay off some equal opportunities lawsuit, presumably this is the easiest way to get the cash.

 

[torchomatic]

No, it's not what I'm implying. I should know I work for one and have had to reapply for my own job on more than one occasion! I know it's not just CCC or WCC. And yes, Shmmee I know what cunts the Conservatives are.

That is exactly what he is implying, he should look closer to home and his own Council in Warwickshire and stop worrying about ours.

 

[duffer]

Great, isn't it? I'm sure each and every one of the thousand people who are going to lose their jobs will feel a little better every time they drive past the Ricoh; "At least the community asset is safe for the people of Coventry" they will sigh.

The future's so bright I gotta wear shades.

The 1,000 people destined to lose their jobs at Coventry City Council are doing so because of cuts from central government. No one is losing their job because of CCC taking over ACL's mortgage.

If I was losing my job at CCC I wouldn't sigh as I was driving past the Ricoh - but I might rage at anyone from the Government who popped up on the car radio to tell us that things are getting better!

If you're concerned about people losing their jobs, that's laudable (imho). Maybe it will inform your politics, maybe it won't. What you shouldn't do though, is pretend that it's anything to do with the farce being played out at the Ricoh.

Incidentally, I studied Nuclear Science. I loved my classes. (Edit: That last bit is only going to make sense to the 80's generation).

 

[chiefdave]

Are they receiving more than they are borrowing the money for? If so what is the borrowing rate and what is the lending rate?

Don't think the rates have been released publically but they have stated they are making a profit so they must be receiving more than they are borrowing, how else would they make a profit?

 

[Grendel]

Don't think the rates have been released publically but they have stated they are making a profit so they must be receiving more than they are borrowing, how else would they make a profit?

They said a "small" profit. So could be £1 a year as long as ACL do not default for another 43 years.

 

[torchomatic]

No, I'm not saying redundancies are a direct consequence. I'm saying that it never looks good when on one hand loads of people are losing their jobs and on another the same employer is bailing out a joint enterprise company set up to run a stadium that is sitting empty.

The 1,000 people destined to lose their jobs at Coventry City Council are doing so because of cuts from central government. No one is losing their job because of CCC taking over ACL's mortgage.

If I was losing my job at CCC I wouldn't sigh as I was driving past the Ricoh - but I might rage at anyone from the Government who popped up on the car radio to tell us that things are getting better!

If you're concerned about people losing their jobs, that's laudable (imho). Maybe it will inform your politics, maybe it won't. What you shouldn't do though, is pretend that it's anything to do with the farce being played out at the Ricoh.

Incidentally, I studied Nuclear Science. I loved my classes. (Edit: That last bit is only going to make sense to the 80's generation).

 

[duffer]

No, I'm not saying redundancies are a direct consequence. I'm saying that it never looks good when on one hand loads of people are losing their jobs and on another the same employer is bailing out a joint enterprise company set up to run a stadium that is sitting empty.

I wouldn't dispute how you feel about it Torchy, but the truth as I see it is that they are unrelated. At the moment the bail-out isn't costing the council money, and in fact they're actually making on it. Whether that continues remains to be seen, of course.

There are probably bigger arguments here about where the job cuts need to take place, or even if making cuts is the right thing to do at all... but I'm staying away from all that. The football rows are bad enough.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Typical response from someone like you.

Every Council in the country are making redundancies due to Government cut backs.
Yet you are happy for a council asset to be sold cheaply or given away for nothing to a cheating lying Hedgefund.

Just look over the Border into Grendels Country Brum and look what massive cutback and job losses they are having t make.

The Brum cutbacks are driven partly by the council losing a huge equal pay claim.

Things can't be that bad for CCC if they are comfortable in borrowing £14m themselves. Either that or they have genuine confidence in ACL's ability to repay.

 

[shmmeee]

The Brum cutbacks are driven partly by the council losing a huge equal pay claim.

Things can't be that bad for CCC if they are comfortable in borrowing £14m themselves. Either that or they have genuine confidence in ACL's ability to repay.

I'd have thought even if ACL go belly up the lease would fetch more than £14m, no?

 

[italiahorse]

No, it's not what I'm implying. I should know I work for one and have had to reapply for my own job on more than one occasion! I know it's not just CCC or WCC. And yes, Shmmee I know what cunts the Conservatives are.

So Labour didn't put us here by spending money we didn't have, and Council inefficiencies don't need addressing?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

So does my wife 25 years service, she is not immune but hey like I said that's life.

That is why I am on here posting in the day, first day of unemployment after being made redundant I have been on garden leave for 2 weeks I'm not crying about it life goes on.

No, it's not what I'm implying. I should know I work for one and have had to reapply for my own job on more than one occasion! I know it's not just CCC or WCC. And yes, Shmmee I know what cunts the Conservatives are.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'd have thought even if ACL go belly up the lease would fetch more than £14m, no?

Depends on whether the council would want a fully independent leaseholder doesn't it? If they wanted another 50/50 joint venture with a third party they'd essentially have to pay themselves for the lease. Which I suppose is what ACL do.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

So you begrudge CCC making a small profit from a stadium firm, but you expect them to make a loss by selling the stadium for peanuts to a Lying, scheming Hedgefund who don't give a rats ass about the local people or community.?


Strange.

They said a "small" profit. So could be £1 a year as long as ACL do not default for another 43 years.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So Labour didn't put us here by spending money we didn't have, and Council inefficiencies don't need addressing?

It's gone way beyond this cuts for the sake of driving out mythical inefficiencies. These are now cuts to services. Your council tax goes up every year but you get less in return.
George Osborne has borrowed more in 4 years than Labour did in 13.

 

[torchomatic]

There was a global financial crisis. And as FP pointed out Osbourne certainly hasn't made things any better. The problem with the Tories is they are idealogical. They want to batter the working man and cut taxes for the rich. They always look after themselves.

So Labour didn't put us here by spending money we didn't have, and Council inefficiencies don't need addressing?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

And I thought it was all CCC fault?:thinking about:

There was a global financial crisis. And as FP pointed out Osbourne certainly hasn't made things any better. The problem with the Tories is they are idealogical. They want to batter the working man and cut taxes for the rich. They always look after themselves.

 

[duffer]

There was a global financial crisis. And as FP pointed out Osbourne certainly hasn't made things any better. The problem with the Tories is they are idealogical. They want to batter the working man and cut taxes for the rich. They always look after themselves.

I couldn't agree more. The simple truth is that in this country wealth inequality is increasing and not decreasing.

When the five richest families in the country have the same wealth as twelve-million others put together, then there's something badly wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...st-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population

There is no way you're going to convince me about the need for austerity when you're doing nothing as a Government to rebalance that equation. "We're all in it together" is pretty much the most outrageous lie ever told in modern politics.

Second is the, "there will be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS". There are a few more here:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/pre-election-pledges-tories-are-trying-wipe-internet

My only sadness is that there's no one to vote for that I can see really wants to take the fight on. But it's hard to believe that anyone could be so simultaneously unpleasant, dissembling, and incompetent as the current bunch in power.

And that's me done with the politics... sorry for going off-topic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I couldn't agree more. The simple truth is that in this country wealth inequality is increasing and not decreasing.

When the five richest families in the country have the same wealth as twelve-million others put together, then there's something badly wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...st-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population

There is no way you're going to convince me about the need for austerity when you're doing nothing as a Government to rebalance that equation. "We're all in it together" is pretty much the most outrageous lie ever told in modern politics.

Second is the, "there will be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS". There are a few more here:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/pre-election-pledges-tories-are-trying-wipe-internet

My only sadness is that there's no one to vote for that I can see really wants to take the fight on. But it's hard to believe that anyone could be so simultaneously unpleasant, dissembling, and incompetent as the current bunch in power.

And that's me done with the politics... sorry for going off-topic.

The main parties are 3 sides of the same coin (I know). It's quite demoralising really

 

[skybluetony176]

There was a global financial crisis. And as FP pointed out Osbourne certainly hasn't made things any better. The problem with the Tories is they are idealogical. They want to batter the working man and cut taxes for the rich. They always look after themselves.

The global financial crisis was caused by the banking laws being relaxed most notably in the USA but good old Tony Blair followed George W Bush like a love lost puppy. So yes the former labour government are to blame as they relaxed the laws that allowed UK banks to be exposed to not only what was happening elsewhere but also the mental risks that they were now allowed to take under UK law.

As for the tories battering the poor. Despite the fact that I've had to accept a pay freeze for the last 4 years and earning less than £20k a year I have more money in my pay packet now than I did under the last labour government thanks to this tory government raising the tax threshold.

 

[duffer]

The global financial crisis was caused by the banking laws being relaxed most notably in the USA but good old Tony Blair followed George W Bush like a love lost puppy. So yes the former labour government are to blame as they relaxed the laws that allowed UK banks to be exposed to not only what was happening elsewhere but also the mental risks that they were now allowed to take under UK law.

As for the tories battering the poor. Despite the fact that I've had to accept a pay freeze for the last 4 years and earning less than £20k a year I have more money in my pay packet now than I did under the last labour government thanks to this tory government raising the tax threshold.

I'm genuinely glad you're doing a bit better. There are plenty that aren't, and things are going to get worse:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...overty-thanks-to-welfare-reforms-9442061.html

Anyway, I'm leaving it at that. Hard to believe it, given we're CCFC, but it's probably better to sticking to the football.

 

[torchomatic]

Good for you. There are millions who won't want to give Tories "thanks". The quarter of a million children pushed into poverty since they came to power, for example.

As for the tories battering the poor. Despite the fact that I've had to accept a pay freeze for the last 4 years and earning less than £20k a year I have more money in my pay packet now than I did under the last labour government thanks to this tory government raising the tax threshold.

 

[skybluetony176]

Good for you. There are millions who won't want to give Tories "thanks". The quarter of a million children pushed into poverty since they came to power, for example.

See, mess left by previous Goverment. Do you really think labour would have done any better if they had stayed in power. Part of the reason the cuts had to be made as hard and fast as they were is because the labour goverment didn't go far enough or soon enough as they had one eye on the election and were trying to give the impression things were not as bad as they were. I dont recall which Labour minister it was who said it but it was about 6months before the general election when they said " we are beginning to see the green shoots of recovery" only to be promptly shot down by economist who were quick to point out that far from it as we weren't even at the bottom of the cycle (to coin a phrase). Thern there was the note that the incomming minister found his labour predecesor "good luck, all the moneys gone"

compare that to the health of the country John Majors goverment handed over, Labour did well to fcuk it up as much as they did. Remember also Mr Browns "this is the end of boom and bust" statement just before it went bust.

Mr Grandad who was a union man but always voted Tory told me at a young age that you'll have good years under labour but the tories always have to clean up the mess they leave. this is no different.

 

[limoncello]

Someone earning less than £20k a year singing the praises of the conservatives. Unbelievable.

 

[torchomatic]

You'll not convince me how great the Tories are, I'm afraid. As I said the number of children who have slipped into poverty doesn't suggest they are good any cleaning anything up. Apart from more cash for themselves, of course.

See, mess left by previous Goverment. Do you really think labour would have done any better if they had stayed in power. Part of the reason the cuts had to be made as hard and fast as they were is because the labour goverment didn't go far enough or soon enough as they had one eye on the election and were trying to give the impression things were not as bad as they were. I dont recall which Labour minister it was who said it but it was about 6months before the general election when they said " we are beginning to see the green shoots of recovery" only to be promptly shot down by economist who were quick to point out that far from it as we weren't even at the bottom of the cycle (to coin a phrase). Thern there was the note that the incomming minister found his labour predecesor "good luck, all the moneys gone"

compare that to the health of the country John Majors goverment handed over, Labour did well to fcuk it up as much as they did. Remember also Mr Browns "this is the end of boom and bust" statement just before it went bust.

Mr Grandad who was a union man but always voted Tory told me at a young age that you'll have good years under labour but the tories always have to clean up the mess they leave. this is no different.

 

[RegTheDonk]

......

As for the tories battering the poor. Despite the fact that I've had to accept a pay freeze for the last 4 years and earning less than £20k a year I have more money in my pay packet now than I did under the last labour government thanks to this tory government raising the tax threshold.

I work in the public sector and also have had a pay freeze for the last 4 years. I too have more money in my pay packet now than under Labour.

The trouble is while they have raised the tax threshold, prices are going up faster. Energy, petrol, food. I'm actually worse off. Thank god interest rates are low, dreading when they start to go up....

 

[olderskyblue]

Good for you. There are millions who won't want to give Tories "thanks". The quarter of a million children pushed into poverty since they came to power, for example.

where does this "fact" come from torch? I remember a report saying that "could" happen.... Has it?

 

[torchomatic]

That's the point. While I'm sure I have more money in my wage despite a public sector wage freeze, the cost of everything has shot up. Energy, fuel, food, etc.

I work in the public sector and also have had a pay freeze for the last 4 years. I too have more money in my pay packet now than under Labour.

The trouble is while they have raised the tax threshold, prices are going up faster. Energy, petrol, food. I'm actually worse off. Thank god interest rates are low, dreading when they start to go up....