wasps (14 Viewers)

chiefdave · Mar 31, 2015

italiahorse said:
How about going into a car dealership selling Jaguars and rent the vacant selling space to sell Land Rovers.
We could share salesmen, servicing and paintshop.
We could also sell our own Land Rover merchandise and all we have to do is ask.

Lets get Arthur Daley in to run it. I don't know where to start with this. Lets try this, you have no idea if that business would be a success, if it was so easy to open a business and make a ton of money everyone would be rich. Lots more businesses fail than generate big money so there's a very good chance your suggestion would see us having to divert money away from the football club to prop up a car dealership!

And of course none of this would come under FFP even if it was a success.

italiahorse said:
I fail to see how CCFC cannot make £5M a year commercially.

Seeing as it's so easy to generate millions in profit I presume you are loaded, why don't you build us a new ground?

Thenose said:
Sorry just corrected that for you...

Even if you believe it is 100% SISU's fault we didn't purchase ACL it is still CCC and Higgs who have killed the club for the lifetime of everyone on this forum. Lets say it was 100% SISU's fault, that would have been resolved by a change in ownership, the actions of CCC and Higgs mean even a change of ownership will not give the club a bright future.

Brighton Sky Blue · Mar 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
We do invest in providing the facilities, it's called rent and matchday expenses.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I think Italia meant that by penny he means £100k.

Nick · Mar 31, 2015

Haven't we invested more into ACL in rent and matchday fees than Wasps over the years?

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

CCFC said:
You obviously plucked that 5 million figure out from between your butt cheeks

It came from the Leicester figures on the bar chart. So your right in respect that when I print it out that's where I will put it.

dongonzalos · Mar 31, 2015

Grendel said:
Italia should work for Sisu as their strategy development guru.

Develop a plan ignoring all the indicators are telling you the opposite and just carry on regardless.

Finally you realised your mistake when you were encouraging SISU with the rent strike, threats to move to Northampton, the JR and threats to build a new stadium.
Despite all indicators suggesting this would lead to a bloody battle that will not end up with CCFC owning ACL. You cheerleaded and applauded them with their tactics.

It's took three years but you finally accept that that is what SISU did carried on with their strategy as they are now dispute all indicators that it will fail

dongonzalos · Mar 31, 2015

Nick said:
Haven't we invested more into ACL in rent and matchday fees than Wasps over the years?

They have technically invested 19.5 million?
So have we?

dongonzalos · Mar 31, 2015

chiefdave said:
Exactly, if people like italia are now saying that is the best we can do why are they not furious at the council? SISU have done many many terrible things and caused huge issues but CCC have killed off any hope things will ever improve to any great extent.

Why would CCC do something drastic like that to its city's own football club.......

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
We pay rent and matchday costs,

We won't buy into ACL because wasps will not want to sell their shares,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Rent is not an investment and match day costs are for holding the match.

We won't buy into ACL because Sisu don't want too, never have.

stupot07 · Mar 31, 2015

dongonzalos said:
They have technically invested 19.5 million?
So have we?

I hadn't realised they had paid the loan off already, that is good news.

£1.3m x 7 years = £9.1m
£550k through CVA
£250k matchday costs x 8 = £2m
C£1m f&b income per annum x 8 = £8m
Plus naming rights, stand sponsorship,etc c£3-4m?
Plus this season rent and matchday costs c£350k

I'd say we've contributed in excess of £25m income to ACL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

stupot07 · Mar 31, 2015

italiahorse said:
Rent is not an investment and match day costs are for holding the match.

We won't buy into ACL because Sisu don't want too, never have.

We hire the venue to make money, matchday cost will cover the cost of parking attendants and opening and manning food outlets. We are therefore paying for them to be run and should take profit from it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

stupot07 · Mar 31, 2015

italiahorse said:
It came from the Leicester figures on the bar chart. So your right in respect that when I print it out that's where I will put it.

I imagine most of that commercial revenue is brought in through the stadium - F&b's conferences, stadium sponsorship, stand sponsorship, Pitchside advertising,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

chiefdave · Mar 31, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Why would CCC do something drastic like that to its city's own football club.......

No idea but they have. I've tried asking them but the standard response is commercially confidential.

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

dongonzalos said:
Why would CCC do something drastic like that to its city's own football club.......

Where do I start ?

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

chiefdave said:
No idea but they have. I've tried asking them but the standard response is commercially confidential.

Surely you are not that stupid..
Wasps wanted to pay SISU didn't.

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
I imagine most of that commercial revenue is brought in through the stadium - F&b's conferences, stadium sponsorship, stand sponsorship, Pitchside advertising,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

You don't know ?

Nick · Mar 31, 2015

dongonzalos said:
They have technically invested 19.5 million?
So have we?

Yes, unless they have paid the loan off?

Grendel · Mar 31, 2015

Nick said:
Yes, unless they have paid the loan off?

It seems Dongle now even thinks OSB is full of shit.

chiefdave · Mar 31, 2015

italiahorse said:
Surely you are not that stupid..
Wasps wanted to pay SISU didn't.

Well SISU did make a bid at the same value for Higgs 50% which would indicate they were interested however once again you are completely missing the point. Just for a second forget about SISU, forget how badly they have run the club and the damage they have done.

Up until the point CCC and Higgs sold ACL to Wasps and extended the lease to 250 years we could hope (or expect depending how optimistic you are) that when SISU did eventually leave a new owner could come in and turn things around. Sure they would need to repair the damage done by SISU some of which would be a quick fix and some of which would take longer but at some point down the line we could look to a brighter future and being at the very least a side competing at the top end of the Championship. The second CCC and Higgs sold to Wasps that all evaporated.

To achieve that now we require someone to come in and fund the build of a new stadium, thats if we can even find somewhere in the city to build it - CCC say such a site doesn't exist. Of course to do that we need to find someone interested in taking on the club as, again thanks to the sale of ACL to Wasps, the last reason for any non fan to be interested in the club has gone. Which of course means its now a lot harder to get rid of SISU.

Now the best we can hope for is playing in a half empty at best stadium, increasingly branded for Wasps, in L1 with an occasional foray into the Championship. You may be happy with that but I am not.

Grendel · Mar 31, 2015

Chief Dave your wasting your breath. They are just idiots.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
We hire the venue to make money, matchday cost will cover the cost of parking attendants and opening and manning food outlets. We are therefore paying for them to be run and should take profit from it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I've always hated the idea of 'match day costs'

You wouldn't hire out a venue for a party and then be told you have to pay extra to use the bar or extra to hire bar staff or electricity. It would all be covered.

If you want to adjust the rent to reflect match day costs then fine but just put it all under the one umbrella of rent, not rent + match day costs.

Lets remember match day costs doesn't include stewards/emergency services/ticketing staff, these are extra expenses for the club as well.

The 100k literally only covers the use of the empty stadium, which by itself isn't suitable for hosting a match. The match days cost contribution then goes towards all the logistics of hosting a football match, in the past we have essentially been paying extra to allow ACL to host the match to make money.

It's not as bad now as it used to be as we at least get 50% of match day revenue which is at least a start. It would be interesting to know what % are contribution is to the total cost of hosting a football match. If say we are contributing 80% of the total cost yet only taking 50% of the revenue it's still a crappy deal for us.

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

What's done is done.
We all know why CCC had to sell to Wasps. We all know that Sisu will never build a stadium.
It's ALL Sisu's greed and bully boy tactics that got us here..
But now we are here the only thing we can do is hope TM is a sign of Sisu's intentions for the future.
So get behind the team this season, push for cheaper season tickets for next season and lets get out this league and up the next with good support because we are winning.
If that can start CCFC management can start to tackle other incomes.
Who knows ?
.

Grendel · Mar 31, 2015

italiahorse said:
What's done is done.
We all know why CCC had to sell to Wasps. We all know that Sisu will never build a stadium.
It's ALL Sisu's greed and bully boy tactics that got us here..
But now we are here the only thing we can do is hope TM is a sign of Sisu's intentions for the future.
So get behind the team this season, push for cheaper season tickets for next season and lets get out this league and up the next with good support because we are winning.
If that can start CCFC management can start to tackle other incomes.
Who knows ?
.

Given the councils claim ACl was a profitable enterprise and ccFC accounted for only 12% of turnover can you explain why they HAD to sell to Wasps.

The stage is yours. Answer the question.

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

Grendel said:
Given the councils claim ACl was a profitable enterprise and ccFC accounted for only 12% of turnover can you explain why they HAD to sell to Wasps.

The stage is yours. Answer the question.

The accounts say different.
CCC outmanoeuvred Sisu. By bluffing them.

chiefdave · Mar 31, 2015

italiahorse said:
By bluffing them.

Also known as lying to the electorate.

italiahorse · Mar 31, 2015

chiefdave said:
Also known as lying to the electorate.

The next few weeks will be hell for you.

dongonzalos · Mar 31, 2015

stupot07 said:
I hadn't realised they had paid the loan off already, that is good news.

£1.3m x 7 years = £9.1m
£550k through CVA
£250k matchday costs x 8 = £2m
C£1m f&b income per annum x 8 = £8m
Plus naming rights, stand sponsorship,etc c£3-4m?
Plus this season rent and matchday costs c£350k

I'd say we've contributed in excess of £25m income to ACL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

No Wasps consortium bought ACL, ACL have the loan.
What is the 550 for the CVA where did that money come from, why was it owned.
2 million matchday costs I take it that was a profit for ACL?
Fandb how much did the council pay to buy that when we sold it to them.
Naming rights? Please explain that one.
Again you must remove the costs to ACL of this seasons rent.

dongonzalos · Mar 31, 2015

Grendel said:
It seems Dongle now even thinks OSB is full of shit.

No just you

chiefdave · Mar 31, 2015

dongonzalos said:
What is the 550 for the CVA where did that money come from, why was it owned.

From memory it was made up out of an amount outstanding after the money ACL had drawn down from the security account combined with a payment for the remaining term of the contract

dongonzalos said:
Fandb how much did the council pay to buy that when we sold it to them.

We didn't sell F&B to the council did we? Do you mean the 50% share in ACL we sold to Higgs? I think OSB said the actual cash amount that changed hands was relatively small as there was existing finance involved.

dongonzalos said:
Naming rights? Please explain that one.

I would assume he means that the value of the naming rights at the point the contract with Ricoh was agreed was largely down to us playing there.

stupot07 · Mar 31, 2015

dongonzalos said:
No Wasps consortium bought ACL, ACL have the loan.
What is the 550 for the CVA where did that money come from, why was it owned.
2 million matchday costs I take it that was a profit for ACL?
Fandb how much did the council pay to buy that when we sold it to them.
Naming rights? Please explain that one.
Again you must remove the costs to ACL of this seasons rent.

You're right forgot the escrow account ....

Why are you adding the loan to ACL, but not including the benefits? Why are you including the £14m to wasps when it's ACL debt?

We never sold F&B's to the council.

Re: naming rights, £10m and we were the flagship tenant, our look here they are heading a ccfc football. Of course us playing there had no bearing at all on events

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/coventry_city/4485823.stm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

italiahorse · Apr 1, 2015

chiefdave said:
Well SISU did make a bid at the same value for Higgs 50% which would indicate they were interested however once again you are completely missing the point. Just for a second forget about SISU, forget how badly they have run the club and the damage they have done.

Up until the point CCC and Higgs sold ACL to Wasps and extended the lease to 250 years we could hope (or expect depending how optimistic you are) that when SISU did eventually leave a new owner could come in and turn things around. Sure they would need to repair the damage done by SISU some of which would be a quick fix and some of which would take longer but at some point down the line we could look to a brighter future and being at the very least a side competing at the top end of the Championship. The second CCC and Higgs sold to Wasps that all evaporated.

To achieve that now we require someone to come in and fund the build of a new stadium, thats if we can even find somewhere in the city to build it - CCC say such a site doesn't exist. Of course to do that we need to find someone interested in taking on the club as, again thanks to the sale of ACL to Wasps, the last reason for any non fan to be interested in the club has gone. Which of course means its now a lot harder to get rid of SISU.

Now the best we can hope for is playing in a half empty at best stadium, increasingly branded for Wasps, in L1 with an occasional foray into the Championship. You may be happy with that but I am not.

They made a bid that tied Higgs up and so was not acceptable.
Hasn't TF said it wasn't worth buying with the loan attached ?

I never said I was happy, I said we can't change things so lets give it our best.
If you want to be a victim keep bleating.

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