Wasps owner reveals motives for Ricoh Arena takeover

Discussion in 'Wasps' started by SimonGilbert, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. SimonGilbert

    SimonGilbert Telegraph Tea Boy

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  2. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    He added: “One of the most important things was a 365-day income for the club. The business needed more than my paying-in money every year.


    And yet some say the football club don't need 365 day year income.....


    Pretty sure they didn't make £2m profit in 2012/13 -

    Arena Coventry Limited’s (ACL) accounts for the financial year 2012/13 reveal that the much-contested arena brought in £14.49million, compared to £7.78m the year before.

    However this resulted in a profit of just £775,465, down from £1.09m in 2012

    http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-doubles-turnover-thanks-6781323

    Ps. They have no PR Machine.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  3. crowsnest

    crowsnest Active Member

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  4. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

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  5. crowsnest

    crowsnest Active Member

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    "The Irish insurance salesman, who lives in Surrey and grew up in Monaco" - Really?????????

    He moved to Monaco in 2002.

    His company is based in Malta to save tax - yet ACL are funded by loans from Coventry Council - how does that work?
     
  6. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Dongle claimed the big reason the council wanted to do business with then was because of regeneration.

    Should have stuck with Haskell and the hotel with a ski slope on car park C.
     
  7. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    I thought the CCC loan was still in place, certainly the charge they hold still is. So if the CCC loan is still there how does that equate to Richardson paying roughly £20m? ACL still owe the loan to CCC don't they? They might be owned by Richardson but Company law quite clearly defines each company as a separate legal entity and shareholders are only liable for the unpaid amounts on the shares that are issued. So if ACL went bust owing CCC 14m would Richardson be liable to pay the loan off? - in short no.

    He hasn't paid £20m for it ....... he paid for the shares only..... the loan seems to have stayed in place and because it has depressed the value that Richardson had to pay for the shares

    Wasps only had a £1m debt ....... really? its not what the accounts say before or after Mr Richardson's takeover. Long term debt in June 2012 £12m and June 2013 £17m. The balance sheet was negative by £13m and £14m respectively

    Yes Wasps do have 365 days a year income and strangely they own the long lease not the freehold. It didn't have to be 250 years to be a long leasehold interest usually anything over 50yrs is considered to be long

    He might not be a property developer but I bet he still has the option to bring in one to develop the non income generating land. It wouldn't make sense to do nothing with it. Let me see he could agree a long sub lease, a franchise, a partnership etc....... he doesn't have to do it himself, nor does the club but the rights to it are valuable and could reduce loans etc
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  8. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    Operating profit shown on the ACL accounts was £2.1m in 2012 and £1.1m in 2013 however that is before adjusting for exceptional items, finance interest and minority interests. Operating profit is not the whole picture

    Bottom line was a profit of £1.09m in 2012 and £0.78m in 2013
     
  9. crowsnest

    crowsnest Active Member

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    The deal was only worth £5.5m as we do not know how the extra £1m for the extended lease is going to be paid. Is it at a later stage, is it part of the loan.

    What happens to the "super rent" agreement?

    What source did you use for the £30m deal?
     
  10. crowsnest

    crowsnest Active Member

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    Not if they looked into the taxpayer funded redevelopment of Gator Park.
     
  11. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    The loan is still with the council -- the wording of the article just about gets away with that -- Its desperate spin to make us believe they have paid £20 million when they haven't
     
  12. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    Have I got this wrong or does that contradict the statement form Friday's papers being served that the loan was replaced /Is a fresh one or just that It Is anew one residing with CCC?
     
  13. Ashdown

    Ashdown Well-Known Member

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    The guy talks with about as much spin as Fisher.................difference is he and his colleagues had the balls and the backing to dive in and make the deal and take the gamble whereas SISU tried to 'Batter everyone in court'. I don't believe this individual is an angel but before the 'rent strike' SISU could have started real negotiations but they didn't, they started loading obscene 'debt interest' and 'management charges' against CCFC and were paying stupid laughable wages to all manner of underperformers in the squad, rendering their cost pleas as debatable { the rent was too high we all know but only equated to 1/8th of the losses}.
    All that said and as negligent as the Mayfair cretins are, I'm sure a few of our local politicians have let this deal go through as much out of spite as anything. When Lucas stood wielding her spade for the cameras at the site of the new train stop she new damn well what was going to be announced shortly and had done for sometime !
     
  14. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    It all seems a bit contradictory doesn't wingy

    I think that what has happened is something like ......

    The loan is still with ACL at something like 13.4m (originally was 14.4 but payments should have been paid off quarterly since January 2013)
    the charge/security that CCC remains the same (there has been no new charge filed at Companies House as of today I checked)
    What seems to have happened is that the terms of the loan have been changed. For instance the original CCC loan to ACL was for 40 years ending 2053. Various sources have said that the loan is over 20 years.

    What that all allows is that people can say all sorts of things and not be wrong but equally not be right either ........... situation normal.

    Richardson and CCC can claim the deal was worth £20m ..... but in actual fact the money changing hands and the actual purchase of the shares was much less
    It can be said that this is the same loan because the charge hasn't changed and it is still between CCC and ACL ..... something that ARVO & SBS&L will seek to prove because then they still have a claim linked to the JR, but is it the old loan still? In which case CCC will be embroiled in more lengthy court room drama
    It can be said this is a new loan....... the terms have changed, there is a change of ownership, there are probably legal papers making it so which could be used to prove the JR and its appeal are now pointless. In which case SISU have nothing to gain any more

    I think the Courts will be asked to rule whether it is a new loan or whether it is a rework of the old one.

    Basically unless someone comes out and says what deal was done then we wont know ....... likelihood of one of the parties to the loan doing that? ......remote
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  15. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Didn't Wasps get a chunk knocked off the loan or was that just hear say?

    Was it true that CCFC were expected to re generate?

    Interesting the comments on the article too.
     
  16. crowsnest

    crowsnest Active Member

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  17. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read the Article or CT's appraisal of It ,but Is he actually saying he hasn't struck the deal to regenerate the land aroundabouts ?

    One of the alleged reasons for the CCC reluctance to strike a deal with SISU.

    Picking up various posts In the thread It seems he's telling porkies ,or Is he actually telling us It was a condition of getting the other side of the deal and a condition he was willing to accept?
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Seems he dismissed developing it straight out.

     
  19. Intheknow

    Intheknow New Member

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    I am surprised Les Reid has been quiet this last week.
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    why would that be?
     
  21. Intheknow

    Intheknow New Member

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    To be fair no surprise, it just evidences once again his total ignorance of key events.
     
  22. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    It's odd that the vast majority on here are happy to accept as fact that if Wasps didn't move to the Ricoh they would go out of business as they needed 365 day income yet also state we should stay as tenants as we don't need to own our ground or receive the income generated by us playing there.

    Was going to post the same thing. Years of bashing SISU for not wanting to build hotels etc then sell up to a rugby club who aren't going to do any development :facepalm:

    OSB, or anyone else who has them, are there figures for each years profit or loss for ACL since it was formed. Would be interested to see how profitable it would have been if we subtract our £1.2m a year rent, let alone other money generated by us being there.
     
  23. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    What's being ignored?
     
  24. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    See post 8.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
     
  25. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    isn't that simple though is it ............ you might want to subtract the related costs as well as subtracting the income. There is no reliable breakdown to do that
     
  26. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    It would give you a ballpark. Of course the club bring more revenues to ACL than just the rent so those would offset in some part the costs. Would certainly give an indication of the heath of ACL without CCFC there.
     
  27. SkyBlue_Bear83

    SkyBlue_Bear83 Well-Known Member

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    They cold have survived if they cut there budget, exactly like we've had to do by being tenants at the Ricoh
     
  28. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    I thought this thread might get a few more posts....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
     
  29. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    Get you with your optimism!
     
  30. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    tbh, am trying to avoid this sub forum in particular.

    Wasps are nothing to me, they do not exist. Pretty pointless banging my head against a brick SBT, better to enjoy life.

    But... I've sneaked in here:facepalm:
     
  31. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    The danger of using the "new posts" button, I usually don't know which sub forum posts are from.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
     
  32. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    There was that interview PWKH was pretty sure whoever bought had to develop the area, he said it a few times as well in the space of a couple of minutes..
     

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