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Wasps downward spiral... (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2020
  • #1,681
Grendel said:
Richardson has always been primarily interested in land development
Click to expand...
They even admitted that when they described the Wasps Group as a property development company that happens to have a rugby club attached to it. Of course certain sections of the local media and their fans decided to ignore that.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2020
  • #1,682
According to one user on ADVFN says payment has not been received.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2020
  • #1,683
Liquid Gold said:
The Ricoh is attached to £35m debts that are impossible to pay back and extremely difficult to refinance. I'm 95% sure that they won't have the stadium come May 2022
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Was listening to a round table with some economists discussing the current situation and the financial issues we'll face. They were talking about the companies likely to go under early on and it was pretty much a perfect description of Wasps.

Companies which are running at a loss and have their assets heavily leveraged. They even singled out companies who have had to get their finance via the bond market as other sources of funding consider them too high of a risk.

May 2022 may seem a long way off now but with the current crisis and Brexit still to come I'm far from convinced refinancing is going to be the walk in the park a lot of people say it will be.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2020
  • #1,684
tisza said:
Ricoh out of the running as a neutral ground if rugby restarts according to BBC
Click to expand...
Not surprising when you look at one of the criteria the BBC has listed.
BBC said:
A pitch that can withstand a series of matches in one weekend.
Click to expand...
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2020
  • #1,685
jordan210 said:
According to one user on ADVFN says payment has not been received.
Click to expand...

Slight update. Another use has also NOT received payment yet.

Some are saying it's now been received.
 
Last edited: May 14, 2020

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • May 15, 2020
  • #1,686
chiefdave said:
May 2022 may seem a long way off now but with the current crisis and Brexit still to come I'm far from convinced refinancing is going to be the walk in the park a lot of people say it will be.
Click to expand...

The way I see it is that their only option to refinance would be to again look to the bond market, but with significantly increased interest rates to take into account the higher risk attached. They’re fucked.
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • May 15, 2020
  • #1,687
Don’t tell me behind the scenes that there isn’t no sleeepless nights and no worries at all their side?

if any wasps ‘fan’ thinks everything is rosy and ‘to plan’ then there mentally sick or haven’t a clue on finance.
 

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,688
Extract from their board (apologies if already posted)
Re: Wasps finances
Blanchefleur 12 May, 2020 10:04
Richardson sold his insurance business and made 53m euros before tax. He has ploughed £18m into a company that annually makes a loss of £10m and this year the losses could be double that figure. It would be hardly surprising that if an opportunity to make a return on his investment arose he would ensure that he kept the money for himself rather than toss it into the money pit.
Tomorrow the 6 monthly dividend on the bonds is due...£1.1375m. There has been no income and the overheads still needed paying. How much more of his fortune is he going to invest into Wasps when clearly the model does not work as the annual losses demonstrate
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,689
The bond dividend has been paid
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,690
CCFC88 said:
The bond dividend has been paid
Click to expand...

It will be paid, as a secured debt they'll pay that over anything else I reckon.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,691
Rugby's top players are lauded at international level - even I enjoy the World Cup, Six nations stuff, but club level rugby doesn't interest people to the same level. Players' salaries are disproportionate to club level interest - hence why I suspect Wasps have slowly ditched the Galactico players. Unfortunately for them (hopefully great for us) the coronavirus timing has left them even more vulnerable than they already were). They will be begging us to come back *but blues will want the income too). Whilst fans can't attend, I'd be tempted to turn the screw on Wasps (likely to be a buyers market)
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,692
Sky Blue Harry H said:
Rugby's top players are lauded at international level - even I enjoy the World Cup, Six nations stuff, but club level rugby doesn't interest people to the same level. Players' salaries are disproportionate to club level interest - hence why I suspect Wasps have slowly ditched the Galactico players. Unfortunately for them (hopefully great for us) the coronavirus timing has left them even more vulnerable than they already were). They will be begging us to come back *but blues will want the income too). Whilst fans can't attend, I'd be tempted to turn the screw on Wasps (likely to be a buyers market)
Click to expand...

100% of the revenues in exchange for a peppercorn rent. Start there then budge slowly
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,693
fernandopartridge said:
It will be paid, as a secured debt they'll pay that over anything else I reckon.
Click to expand...
Yea, like I said, it has already been paid
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,694
Sky Blue Harry H said:
They will be begging us to come back *but blues will want the income too). Whilst fans can't attend, I'd be tempted to turn the screw on Wasps (likely to be a buyers market)
Click to expand...
But there's also a point where time starts to work against City if the owners don't have a separate plan for at least land purchase for new stadium. League isn't going to let us keep groundsharing outside the City on the theory Wasps may cave/go bust etc.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,695
WASPS 22 retail bond price (WAS1) - London Stock Exchange.

Three trades of 10k each on the ninth.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,696
wingy said:
WASPS 22 retail bond price (WAS1) - London Stock Exchange.

Three trades of 10k each on the ninth.
Click to expand...
At 47.75 as well, someones lost some money. Don't think even the biggest pessimist on here thought the price would ever go that low.
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,697
chiefdave said:
At 47.75 as well, someones lost some money. Don't think even the biggest pessimist on here thought the price would ever go that low.
Click to expand...
Especially this close to redemption date
 

Peter Billing

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,698
Stuart Cain has walked, was Chief Exec of the non rugby part of the business.

Warwickshire set to appoint Stuart Cain as new CEO | ESPNcricinfo.com

Sensible to get off the boat before it meets the iceberg.
 
Reactions: duffer

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,699
Peter Billing said:
Stuart Cain has walked, was Chief Exec of the non rugby part of the business.

Warwickshire set to appoint Stuart Cain as new CEO | ESPNcricinfo.com

Sensible to get off the boat before it meets the iceberg.
Click to expand...
This is interesting!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,700
Peter Billing said:
Stuart Cain has walked, was Chief Exec of the non rugby part of the business.
Click to expand...
Cain's to-do list is likely to include the acquisition of a naming-rights partner for Edgbaston
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Can see why they gave him the job as he's done such a good job of getting a new naming rights deal for the Ricoh!

He's only been chief exec for 9 months but you can't blame him for getting out at the first opportunity.
 
B

bradwellskyblues

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,701
i understand he had a very good relationship with ccfc so from that point of view not great. However it does seem that no one stays very long at wasps we can only speculate why
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,702
:emoji_notes:They're going buuuust
They're going buuuust
They're going bust
They're going bust
They're going buuust:emoji_notes:
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,703
shepardo01 said:
This is interesting!
Click to expand...

Wasn't he the guy CJ, Moz Kalns and co were applauding in their "blame all sides" protest?
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,704
Peter Billing said:
Stuart Cain has walked, was Chief Exec of the non rugby part of the business.

Warwickshire set to appoint Stuart Cain as new CEO | ESPNcricinfo.com

Sensible to get off the boat before it meets the iceberg.
Click to expand...
You don’t start applying for new jobs less than 9 months into it without bloody good reason!

We all know why he has left and would be interesting reading when or if spills the beans.
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,705
Grendel said:
Wasn't he the guy CJ, Moz Kalns and co were applauding in their "blame all sides" protest?
Click to expand...
Not sure.
I was always under the impression that it was Eastwood. The tone of their very staged open e.mail calling on them to do something, that started along the lines of,
"Dear Mr Eastwood, I hope this email finds you well and on good form"
suggests a few emails and meetings have taken place between them. "On good form"... urrrgh!
Don't know though Grendel.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • May 18, 2020
  • #1,706
Yeah its Cain

Save Our Sky Blues: This is what happened during day of action
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • May 19, 2020
  • #1,707
Interesting from FB forum related to EU commission and a grant for 20 mil requested in 2014 by our beloved Council...
What year did Wasps appear!?
Apparently link to grant details now conveniently dead:
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,708
shepardo01 said:
Interesting from FB forum related to EU commission and a grant for 20 mil requested in 2014 by our beloved Council...
What year did Wasps appear!?
Apparently link to grant details now conveniently dead:
View attachment 15112
Click to expand...

You can get to the document that shows the request. shame the links don't work. I assume after x amount of time they are taken off.

So CCC could have used an EU grant for state aid. Im sure the EU look favourably on that.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,709
jordan210 said:
You can get to the document that shows the request. shame the links don't work. I assume after x amount of time they are taken off.

So CCC could have used an EU grant for state aid. Im sure the EU favourably on that.
Click to expand...

If true that’s a game changer
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,710
Here is the link to that document. Page 44 I believe

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:C:2014:190:FULL&from=EN
 

Nick

Administrator
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,711
Whats the link to Wasps?

Looks like it was for this? Coventry Investment Fund supporting regeneration and jobs | CWLEP
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,712
jordan210 said:
Here is the link to that document. Page 44 I believe

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:C:2014:190:FULL&from=EN
Click to expand...
Doubt there is much to this, just seems like EU regional investment, nothing to suggest it is the money used to bail out ACL.

Must be a list of who has had grants / loans from that fund somewhere. Would expect it to be on the CCC site but it comes up as page not found.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,713
Premiership players fear some clubs could go bust by Christmas
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,714
surely would have to appear in Council accounts and Wasps
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2020
  • #1,715
chiefdave said:
Doubt there is much to this, just seems like EU regional investment, nothing to suggest it is the money used to bail out ACL.

Must be a list of who has had grants / loans from that fund somewhere. Would expect it to be on the CCC site but it comes up as page not found.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think someone has seen CCC and Eu and put 2 and 2 together. As it just says Coventry Investment Fund its very open ended.
 
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