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Wasps downward spiral... (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter CCFC54321
  • Start date Oct 20, 2018
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Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,776
Piss off Wasps.

30/7/2022
09:25
It is a matter of timing. If you fire-sell the stadium and buyers know bondholders are desperate, the bids could be very low with proceeds insufficient to redeem the bonds for anything near par. The debt/equity deal would have the advantage of enabling an orderly sales process over a year or two so that you have a better chance of getting a fair price for the stadium. This is all a bit theoretical anyway, the current owners will probably give us the choice between a pure bond refi or liquidation, in which case I will choose liquidation as well and take the loss.
chabar1
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Reply
30/7/2022
09:16
If there isn't sufficient cash being generated then doesn't that make them insolvent ? I wouldn't want equity in such a business. I agree with bigfish: the stadium needs to be sold so that the bonds can be redeemed.
jgh03
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Reply
30/7/2022
08:41
I agree with you. Or at the least, reject the first offer and see if they come back with something very compelling. They could offer a part cash / part equity deal. Banks may not be willing to lend the full £35m as there isn't enough equity in the business nor enough cash generation to cover bank debt interest, but they may be willing to finance say £15-20m. That could provide for a part repayment of the bond and the remainder would get converted into equity. At least we would have the satisfaction of having wiped out current owners who have behaved dishonestly.
chabar1
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,777
Does anyone know how insolvency actually works? At what point would they be classed as trading insolently because reading a definition I'm not sure how it doesn't apply, 'An insolvent company is defined as one which is unable to meet its financial obligations as and when they fall due'

We know they're losing money every year and that's being covered by the owner but they currently seem to have no way of paying a debt that is well past due.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,778
chiefdave said:
Does anyone know how insolvency actually works? At what point would they be classed as trading insolently because reading a definition I'm not sure how it doesn't apply, 'An insolvent company is defined as one which is unable to meet its financial obligations as and when they fall due'

We know they're losing money every year and that's being covered by the owner but they currently seem to have no way of paying a debt that is well past due.
Click to expand...

The issue here really is what the proposal will be to the bond holders - as a guess a 12 month extension or foreclosure?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,779
Grendel said:
Fastcst who posted at 9 last night seems to have an idea of the likely scenarios

ADVFN

uk.advfn.com
Click to expand...

But you need to get at least 75% approval

Might flush out the large investors tho ?
Grendel said:
The issue here really is what the proposal will be to the bond holders - as a guess a 12 month extension or foreclosure?
Click to expand...

That sounds like the Trustees thinking

They need a Receiver to really manage the debt and asset
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,780
The mood on that other wasps forum has changed. The likes of Neils are a lot less assured - Suggs remains the same of course and Steve from Cov says as they’ve bought a training ground the finances aren’t as bad as people say they are
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,781
Grendel said:
The mood on that other wasps forum has changed. The likes of Neils are a lot less assured - Suggs remains the same of course and Steve from Cov says as they’ve bought a training ground the finances aren’t as bad as people say they are
Click to expand...

There are people like Shugs in the chess world. Usually the type to keep moving their king around against 5 queens hoping for a draw
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge, PUSB-We_are_going_up and Grendel

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,782
But how are Wasps generating income now to pay for wages and the training ground, hardly any season tickets sold, chairman not putting money in and still losing £10m a year, that's without paying the bond, they have released a lot of players and don't seem to have bought any in but with no relegation they can just carry on and lose every game.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,783
Gynnsthetonic said:
But how are Wasps generating income now to pay for wages and the training ground, hardly any season tickets sold, chairman not putting money in and still losing £10m a year, that's without paying the bond, they have released a lot of players and don't seem to have bought any in but with no relegation they can just carry on and lose every game.
Click to expand...

That is exactly the thing.

Any pot they can get for a future loan will dramatically shrink by around £10M a year, leaving another financial entity trying to reclaim their losses against similar stuff the bondholders have to claim against when it all goes tits up.

That, if there is not a miracle turnaround of biblical proportions.
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,784
Remember when wasps fan thought HSBC would just give them the money.

Also every month that tickets by the BOE puts base rates up what will have an effect on the interstate from HSBC.
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,785
Shugs really is the Monty Python Black Knight isn't he?
"Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards!! Come back here and take what's coming to you!"
A never ending source of amusement.
 
Reactions: Covkid1968#

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,786
Kneeza said:
Shugs really is the Monty Python Black Knight isn't he?
Click to expand...
Are we sure he's not someone from here on an elaborate wind up. He's beyond parody now with his 'everything is fine' act.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,787
CCFC54321 said:
Are we sure he's not someone from here on an elaborate wind up. He's beyond parody now with his 'everything is fine' act.
Click to expand...

Don't think anyone on here would do such a thing
 
Reactions: duffer and Deleted member 5849

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,788
I'm sure he's an ex City fan, he doesn't seem to comment much about Wasps apart from the financials
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,789
Oldskyblue58 not been on here lately, he normally comments on the subject of Wasps finances.
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,790
chiefdave said:
Are we sure he's not someone from here on an elaborate wind up. He's beyond parody now with his 'everything is fine' act.
Click to expand...
Not a chance. He's just utterly deluded.
 

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,791
Gynnsthetonic said:
I'm sure he's an ex City fan, he doesn't seem to comment much about Wasps apart from the financials
Click to expand...
I agree with that.
Burn the heretic
just in case anyone thinks I'm serious.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,792
Kneeza said:
Not a chance. He's just utterly deluded.
Click to expand...
So he's definitely from SBT then
 
Reactions: vow, PUSB-We_are_going_up, Kneeza and 1 other person

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,793
Gynnsthetonic said:
So he's definitely from SBT then
Click to expand...
I was expecting that
 
Reactions: Gynnsthetonic
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,794
Shugs is sweating a bit now
 

Attachments

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    399.3 KB · Views: 103
Reactions: AOM

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,795
the only person who was assuming it would be sorted was him, everyone else was a least a little worried something was up
 
Reactions: CanadianCCFC
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 30, 2022
  • #5,796
It should have been obvious from the moment of default they were extremely unlikely to get all their money back.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2022
  • #5,797
Love seeing this about them and their finances. I remember finance manager from the hospitality industry who lives in Kenilworth, telling me how great this bond scheme was when they did it and that some of his mates had signed up.

I told him at the time that it was shit.

Love how things are turning out.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueSam01, RegTheDonk, vow and 7 others

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 31, 2022
  • #5,798
Just so you know, W*sps appear to have moved to Birmingham, so all is good.
 
Reactions: MacReady and wingy

Kneeza

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,799
Kent's back in, two-footed
 
Reactions: djr8369 and AOM
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,800
Kneeza said:
Kent's back in, two-footed View attachment 25579
Click to expand...
Bond holders have set up a Facebook page

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uk.advfn.com
 
Reactions: CCFC54321 and djr8369

Hutch11

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,801
Covkid1968# said:
Yes comrade….I stand with you

View attachment 25527
Click to expand...
Foxy
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,802
Shugs is their version of RFC aint he.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk and Deleted member 5849

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,803
Always makes for a happy read that site, they seem like they are getting more desperate.
 
P

Peter Billing Eyes

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,804
Quote from Drunken Wasps “This thread is fast becoming like a Sky Blues Talk thread. Full of speculation and hot air with little fact. The difference here is that we don’t stop SBT posters airing their views here”. To which I replied, “Sky blues fans helping you out with attendance on here as well as at the stadium”. This was swiftly removed by their admin, which kind of makes the original post hypocritical.
 
Reactions: vow, Kneeza and djr8369

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,805
Peter Billing Eyes said:
Quote from Drunken Wasps “This thread is fast becoming like a Sky Blues Talk thread. Full of speculation and hot air with little fact. The difference here is that we don’t stop SBT posters airing their views here”. To which I replied, “Sky blues fans helping you out with attendance on here as well as at the stadium”. This was swiftly removed by their admin, which kind of makes the original post hypocritical.
Click to expand...

To be fair my posts never get removed from there
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,806
I've been barred too, wasn't abusive or anything, just don't think they liked the Anti franchise Wasp talk
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,807
Peter Billing Eyes said:
Quote from Drunken Wasps “This thread is fast becoming like a Sky Blues Talk thread. Full of speculation and hot air with little fact. The difference here is that we don’t stop SBT posters airing their views here”. To which I replied, “Sky blues fans helping you out with attendance on here as well as at the stadium”. This was swiftly removed by their admin, which kind of makes the original post hypocritical.
Click to expand...
Shugs has got it into his head that anyone who doesn't bash Wasps on here is banned or has their ability to post throttled. As far as I'm aware the only person who got banned was Italia for his never ending advertising for which he refused to make a charity donation.

But on their site anyone who doesn't tow the Wasps PR line is swiftly dispatched.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,808
chiefdave said:
Shugs has got it into his head that anyone who doesn't bash Wasps on here is banned or has their ability to post throttled. As far as I'm aware the only person who got banned was Italia for his never ending advertising for which he refused to make a charity donation.

But on their site anyone who doesn't tow the Wasps PR line is swiftly dispatched.
Click to expand...

Again it’s not entirely the case amazingly I seem pretty well tolerated at the minute
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,809
Grendel said:
Again it’s not entirely the case amazingly I seem pretty well tolerated at the minute
Click to expand...
?They really are deluded
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2022
  • #5,810
Deleted member 5849 said:
?They really are deluded
Click to expand...

I even got mentioned on the other forum as talking far more sense than most on here
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Harry H and Deleted member 5849
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