Simon is wrong - the extract is from the prospectus
the first such valuation date to be no later than 30 June 2016.
Wasps breach agreement with bondholders (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter stupot07
- Start date
Simon is wrong - the extract is from the prospectus
the first such valuation date to be no later than 30 June 2016.
Nick
Administrator
Have asked him to confirm.
Is it in his book?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
If I read it right.
If Wasps fail then CCFC couldn't run it either.
In that respect CCFC future would be tied in with Wasps surviving.
Even more important that we bite the bullet and try and get a decent long term deal with Wasps.
If Wasps fail then CCFC couldn't run it either.
In that respect CCFC future would be tied in with Wasps surviving.
Even more important that we bite the bullet and try and get a decent long term deal with Wasps.
Sure you mean WASPS need to do a long term deal with CCFC?
Who hold the biggest financial risks - Bond holders or SISU?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Still got two turkeys.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
How do you work that out? The reason wasps are struggling is because they borrowed beyond their means and waht they needed. Pretty sure that wasps are paying more in interest than the former ACL were paying for interest and repayment on their loan. In sure they wouldn't be struggling to the extent they seem to be now had they had not done the bonds and just carried on with the existing loan. But Richardson wouldnt be £10m better off had he done that.
I don't think so. If it was tied in to wasps survival, they should drop the 'legal noise' pretence and get around the table.
If anything I would say this is a good reason for ccfc not to be tied in long term, keep the uncertainty going and not give wasps security. I doubt they will give us ang better deal long term as they would short term.
Worroed about your bonds are you?
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If anything I would say this is a good reason for ccfc not to be tied in long term, keep the uncertainty going and not give wasps security. I doubt they will give us ang better deal long term as they would short term.
Worroed about your bonds are you?
Well 45200 were traded today by someone[/QUOTE]
Worroed about your bonds are you?
Well 45200 were traded today by someone
[/QUOTE]
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Very good enjoyed that:woot:
Nick
Administrator
Well 45200 were traded today by someone
what's that in money terms?
Time/Date Price Volume Trade value
14:25:56 107.30 45,200 48,499.60
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
No need to worry social media will get the good news out there.
Simons response was not going to upset one of our biggest advertisers.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Can't be italia then unless he has sold a small part of his investment :cigar:
Nick
Administrator
Or he found some change under his sofa and bought them?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Someone has made £6000 (including 1 years interest) if they were bought at issue price.
So when they fall to 95p will the value of the assets only have to be 1.4x£35Mx0.95 ~= £46.5M
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Maybe each free Wasps ticket has a cash value of 0.001p and he's managed to get a few of the ones lying around together to trade in.....
The price will only fall if they holders feel at risk with the asset and not being repaid at 100.00. But unless WASPS planning to sell the Arena for £34m+ they must be relying on a re-issue backed by good results ( and the ability to pay )
The other factor is interest rates - if they bought at 100 the yield is 6.5%. At 95 they would get 100/95 x 6.5 = 6.8%. But the person who bought today @107 will yield 6.0%
So the seller either needed to get out , decided to cut and run or found a better investment
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
That's about the value of any of their tickets you would have to pay me to watch all that hugging they do
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
Wasps are fucked in my humble opinion.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Of course why the stadium company could succeed in CCFC hands but not Wasps could also be due to the fact that ACL was overpriced when sold, so picking it up at a more realistic price would give more disposable cash to play with.
Maybe Fisher was right that ACL was overpriced...
Plus Wasps as a club are gambling on quick growth whereas a strategy of slow, incremental growth could well be the way forward,
Maybe Fisher was right that ACL was overpriced...
Plus Wasps as a club are gambling on quick growth whereas a strategy of slow, incremental growth could well be the way forward,
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
There is always a first time for anything.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
He often has some very valid points, it's just... unfortunate they're shrouded amidst the bullshit.
I dunno, I may be against the grain but, if he was working for more... affable owners, I'd be reasonably comfortable with him as chairman.
(And yes, I do appreciate these are the same ifs that say if Richardson hadn't buddied up with Robinson, all may have been well!)
I have checked this out - the 107 price will include the accrued interest so it is not the Bond price plus £6000
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
So they are accumulating units and should bump up every time Wasps pays out?
This is not my territory but:
The price reflects the value of the bond and the current and future income from it
So the bond price does include the current accrued interim coupon. By definition as each period passes the value should get nearer to 100 - because the future income is getting less
The price also reflects the confidence in the bond holder they will get a full pay out on redemption
We need Italia's broker to clarify more
Time/Date Price Volume Trade Value Type
09:17:39 10-Nov-2016 104.00 9,500 9,880.00 Ordinary trade
09:17:25 10-Nov-2016 105.50 25,000 26,375.00 Automatic Trade
09:17:25 10-Nov-2016 105.65 25,000 26,412.50 Automatic Trade
09:12:54 10-Nov-2016 106.50 25,000 26,625.00 Automatic Trade
08:31:03 10-Nov-2016 107.00 1,800 1,926.00 Ordinary trade
09:17:39 10-Nov-2016 104.00 9,500 9,880.00 Ordinary trade
09:17:25 10-Nov-2016 105.50 25,000 26,375.00 Automatic Trade
09:17:25 10-Nov-2016 105.65 25,000 26,412.50 Automatic Trade
09:12:54 10-Nov-2016 106.50 25,000 26,625.00 Automatic Trade
08:31:03 10-Nov-2016 107.00 1,800 1,926.00 Ordinary trade
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Few facts from the accounts of Wasps Holdings & ACL
Debt levels of combined Wasps and ACL (ignoring cash deposits)
2014 £36,377,068
2015 £37,290,846
2016 £43,641,600
increase in combined debt since 2014 £7,264,532.
Interest paid by combined Wasps & ACL
2014 £967,487 (pre Wasps purchase)
2015 £1,514,107
2016 £2,276,735
Increase in combined annual interest burden compared to 2014 £1,309,248
Capital expenditure combined Wasps & ACL
2014 £ 214,636 (pre purchase of Ricoh)
2015 £ 2,127,676 (including purchase of 250 year lease £1,048,000)
2016 £ 5,821,451
Combined spending on fixed assets at the Ricoh £7,949,127 for 2015 & 2016
Bond price down to £104 today and the next interest is due for payment tomorrow
Debt levels of combined Wasps and ACL (ignoring cash deposits)
2014 £36,377,068
2015 £37,290,846
2016 £43,641,600
increase in combined debt since 2014 £7,264,532.
Interest paid by combined Wasps & ACL
2014 £967,487 (pre Wasps purchase)
2015 £1,514,107
2016 £2,276,735
Increase in combined annual interest burden compared to 2014 £1,309,248
Capital expenditure combined Wasps & ACL
2014 £ 214,636 (pre purchase of Ricoh)
2015 £ 2,127,676 (including purchase of 250 year lease £1,048,000)
2016 £ 5,821,451
Combined spending on fixed assets at the Ricoh £7,949,127 for 2015 & 2016
Bond price down to £104 today and the next interest is due for payment tomorrow
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Fisher may be proved right in the end. I don't think that ACL in itself is a failure as a company.
Its biggest problem since 2005 has been the Yorkshire Bank debt forced on it by the Council which despite refinancing has never gone away. Wasps have just refinanced it again through the bond issue.
Its biggest problem since 2005 has been the Yorkshire Bank debt forced on it by the Council which despite refinancing has never gone away. Wasps have just refinanced it again through the bond issue.
Could be set to sell after 1 year - minimum risk take
