Venezuela

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by Sky Blue Pete, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt seem right us getting involved does it? Do they have anything we want? Oh yeah lots of oil
     
  2. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    I see the US went straight in and got their grubby little paws in.
     
  3. Terry Gibson's perm

    Terry Gibson's perm Well-Known Member

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    Lots of oil there they still run massive old gas guzzlers there as it’s pennies to fill up.

    I went there a few years ago it’s a rough place
     
  4. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Worse than Willenhall?
     
  5. Terry Gibson's perm

    Terry Gibson's perm Well-Known Member

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    In Caracas they advised not to leave the airport and our guide was born in Caracas and he said he was to scare to go out.
     
  6. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    So, like Willenhall then.
     
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  7. CJ_covblaze

    CJ_covblaze Well-Known Member

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    What on earth are you going on about? Shows you know nothing about the area. Willenhall doesn’t have an airport.
     
  8. SBAndy

    SBAndy Well-Known Member

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    What’s going on with Venezuela then? What’s this supposed coup all about?
     
  9. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Can't see a problem. Normally ends well when we get involved in forcing regime change in an oil rich country.
     
  10. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    This is of course the country that Jeremy Corbyn believes is the perfect example of socialism
     
  11. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Well there was an aircraft that landed in willenhall wood a few years back.
     
  12. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    Was working so well
     
  13. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Corruption torture economic meltdown - indeed
     
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  14. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you could be describing Prime Minister's Questions.
     
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  15. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Exporting piracy now.
     
  16. torchomatic

    torchomatic Well-Known Member

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    I was in Safeway in Cov when it happened - the one by the island that's now an Asda. All the lights went out and we were told to leave. Only found out later what had happened. The plane must have, I presume, crashed into power lines.
     
  17. CJ_covblaze

    CJ_covblaze Well-Known Member

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    The replacement for the pylon it crashed into still has a red light on it now. It was to do with the pilots having a poor understanding of English (shocking even for back then), so in the fog they had to guess what they needed to set their altimeter for.
     
  18. torchomatic

    torchomatic Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. To be honest, I never really thought about why all the lights went out in Safeway. Makes sense now.
     
  19. Sky_Blue_Dreamer

    Sky_Blue_Dreamer Active Member

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    Didn't take them long to start making it about the oil did it?

    Even though there appear to be severe doubts about the legality of the election how can you just then declare the opposition leader the winner. If it was a fraudulent election the only thing you can call for is a rerun election surely?

    Not that it matters - like we've seen in Egypt and Zimbabwe deep down you know you're only replacing one lot with another exactly the same.
     
  20. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Hello, Willenhall Wood is up for sale, the cynic in me believes the line about Travellers being interested in a purchase says this is a scare story to facilitate its purchase by Persimmon who will build houses there.
    Travellers show "exceptional interest" in buying crash site
     
  21. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    This was just priceless

     
  22. dancers lance

    dancers lance Well-Known Member

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    It's not like the current regime in Venezuela is having any problems running the country...

    #1 On the worlds misery index of countries

    #1 On the list of the worlds worst ran economies

    180th out of 185 countries that are classified as the worst to do business with.

    170th out of 175 for economic freedom.

    Huge companies leaving in droves (many who invested heavily and are owed billions) due to corruption at the highest level and fiddling the figures to borrow money from other countries which will never be paid back.

    Inflation at 275% since 2015 and forecast to hit 720% this year.

    However...The finance commission of the National Assembly noted in July 2018 that prices were doubling every 28 days with an annualized inflation rate of 25,000%

    Since the country's economy collapsed in 2014, hunger and malnutrition have become a severe problem. In 2015, close to 45% of Venezuelans said they were unable to afford food at times. In 2018, this figure rose to 79%, one of the highest rates in the world.

    According to government figures released in April 2017, 1,446 children under the age of 1 had died in 2016, representing a 30 percent increase in one year. As of August 2017, 31 million people suffered from severe food shortages.

    Extreme poverty and lack of food and medicines has pushed more than three million Venezuelans to leave the country in the recent years.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg. But....... you know, oil and all that.
     
  23. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    Just awful
     
  24. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    That’s socialism
     
  25. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    The US has been involved there for years
     
  26. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    That’s corruption
     
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  27. M&B Stand

    M&B Stand Well-Known Member

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    Off to the Gulag you go Grendel.
     
  28. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    It is funny people blaming this ism and that ism it’s power and corruption it’s too manipulative
     
  29. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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  30. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    Socialist principles of nationalism everything and borrow money from magic money trees. Mmmmm interesting not!
     
  31. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Its the kind of Utopia Mr Corbyn desires - be careful what you wish for. The capitalist model is the only model that provides opportunity for all that want it. Socialism encourages the lazy to become lazier and robs the entrepreneur of his wealth to supply the indolent
     
  32. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    How’s that’s going cause I only see huge inequity and half the worlds population in abject poverty. I think there’s a balance
     
  33. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Half if the world do not have the capitalist model
     
  34. Sky Blue Pete

    Sky Blue Pete Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
  35. Sky_Blue_Dreamer

    Sky_Blue_Dreamer Active Member

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    Socialism has many problems that the theory does not address - I agree it becomes a race to the bottom because if you can't gain more for effort/hard work the only way to gain advantage is get the same as others but do less. it doesn't take into account individual will and desire or assumes these can be 'trained' ie brainwashed out of people. But who's brainwashing those in charge? That is often why it doesn't work and you end up with essentially a new monarchy or aristocracy and I find those in power in things like trade unions don't despise an elite - they merely despise they aren't part of it.

    Socialism always ends up with problems running the economy (for many reasons) but one of them is that control of economics, especially in a global society like today, still lie predominantly in capitalist hands. As we've seen with the last recession, they can create problems that don't really exist and cause a downturn if it's to their advantage.

    You often find that once these people have power they (like capitalists) think their ideas are best and if you don't agree with them you're an enemy. As it's not got the long term legitimacy of something like capitalism it has to fight harder to gain it and hence ends up with people being imprisoned on long sentences or killed.

    But isn't that how it started off for capitalism too (as well as monarchies/feudalism etc)? People being sent to prison, banished or executed for very minor crimes regarding property theft, like bread etc. Once capitalism has been in the psyche for a decent period of time (ie a few generations) they can start to relax the rules a bit as most people have by now accepted them even though they're inherently unfair. Things like trickle down economics and 'a rising tide floats all boats' are absolute nonsense. We're indoctrinated to think "tax = bad, dividends = good" when one provides things that enable society (and thus also the capitalists) to operate whereas the other sees large sums given to people/organisations who already have large sums of money purely because they were able to buy a piece of paper.

    Capitalism has almost the same problems as socialism, inasmuch as in theory it works fine, but doesn't take into account individual wants or inherent power imbalance (which handily lie with those with all the money). Those who have the money (and therefore the power) don't want to lose it, so put as many barriers in place to prevent others diluting it. It ensures people aren't able to get enough money to take advantage of the best parts of capitalism, but ensures they get just enough to live well enough to not be worth their while to complain. You talk of entrepreneurs being robbed, but what of those caught up in red tape or having intellectual property copied which the individual cannot afford to fight due to the excessive legal cost? But you rarely hear those stories because they're kept quiet and the individual often dies in poverty and destitute.

    When capitalism evolved, most of the time it involved lots of people dying to allow it to become established and once it did the history books were made to read it was a glorious and fair way to run society and this is what was taught to future generations. The people who had got hold of the money had control and prevented others from accessing it and ensuring it was passed onto their offspring via things like inheritance. This is not a meritocracy or fair - it's nouveau aristocracy. 2% of the people controlling 98% of the wealth isn't opportunity to all (unless you think 98% of people don't want opportunity).

    The way in is either:
    1. Have an idea (like social media) that the established moneymen don't see the value of and thus ignore, leaving a window of opportunity.
    2. Enable the established capitalists to have an excessive slice of the pie to allow you in, but that entrenches the position as their wealth will still grow more than that of the individual trying to fight their way in.
    3. Be even more ruthless than they are, which is not good for society as a whole.

    But the great wheeze that capitalists use it to use those fortunate enough to slip through the net as examples of how 'anyone' can make it if they work hard enough. They don't haul out all those who tried and were denied because their pathway was blocked, and for each one that makes it there will be millions who are prevented from doing so.

    Capitalism is built on a foundation of sand and like all methods of governance will eventually fail. Socialism isn't the answer but it's ideals are far more worthy than those of capitalism.
     

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