VAR needs an overhaul (3 Viewers)

[Otis]

This kinda sums it up.posted via a Leeds fan.....

Now THAT, IS a clear and obvious error.

 

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[Gynnsthetonic]

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

This makes me feel sick, in real time it's on, someone thats on his laptop 150 miles away cancels it off, ref, lino, 4th official all gave it, feel like not bothering with an ST next year if that's the way it's going

 

[Otis]

Would anyone look at that footage yesterday in the VAR booth and say immediately "Well, that's an clear and obvious error?" No is that answer. Because no-one actually could.

They had to analyse it and go looking for it in depth and if they had to go looking for it, it's not a clear and obvious error is it.

I think the real flaw is that it's been decided that every incident has to be micro analysed within an inch of its life, where at times, common sense should be applied.

Nothing is perfect and mistakes will still get made, but it WOULD be better.

Had that goal been given yesterday no-one would have complained. Even the Man U fans thought it was a goal.

Oh and just for clarification, I am not coming from a position of bitterness or injustice. When it happened yesterday, I believed it was a goal, then they said they were doing a VAR check and I felt it might not be given. When it was confirmed, I just felt sad. I didn't feel anger, or bitterness. I wasn't outraged. I just felt it really sad that it had come down to a line drawn on a screen, that still wasn't totally clear.

I have no chip on my shoulder about it and don't think we should appeal. I think we should write to the FA and tell them we believe it was a mistake.

I wasn't going to mention the offside to be honest, I was so proud of my team, but I then felt I had to defend VAR, because I am pretty certain this is not what it was intended for. If it was, they wouldn't have put in the caveat of "clear and obvious errors".

No-one in the ground yesterday believed there was a clear and obvious error

VAR needs rethinking though, not scrapping. VAR is very often right. It will be absolute carnage if they go back to the old ways, with every manager screaming even more blue murder.

Pretty much every other sport uses technology doesn't it? Cricket, rugby, American Football, racing etc.

We just need to use it properly.
Anyway, that's my tenpence worth and I am going to move on. I want to focus on the team.

Yesterday, I wasn't upset or annoyed, I was just proud of my team.

Anyway, I am done.

On to Wednesday and the rest of the season and the next season to come.

 

[Hobo]

VAR achieves so many controversial talking points week in week out. Even the experts can't agree? I don't see what it achieves and we may as well go back to trusting the referees original decision.

 

[Calista]

People are forgetting what it was like before. There were huge amounts of injustices and mistakes, players getting away with blatant cheating, and in this age of technology the only people in the whole world who didn’t know a decision was wrong were the officials and players on the pitch. And it wasn’t uncommon for wild celebrations to turn to despair after lengthy conversations between refs and linesmen.

But VAR as implemented is a shitshow, and the way we were robbed yesterday is unacceptable. As I see it, there are three main issues.

1) Spurious accuracy on offsides – especially given the judgement call on when the ball is played. Easily solved by making the lines much fatter. Any overlap and it’s onside (advantage to the attacker), and if you’re offside when you’ve had the leeway of fat lines, you really can’t complain.

2) Slow decision making. If they believe a decision is actually wrong (not if they think it may be wrong) the video guys should be made to flash it up on the screen within 10 seconds, and either overturn the onfield decision or get the ref to look. Any longer than that, it’s not clear and obvious so the ref’s decision stands and can’t be overturned.

3) Sheer incompetence. I cannot believe how many decisions they get wrong from an objective standpoint – like the penalty denied to Forest last night which was definitively a foul. And the line drawn over the player’s foot yesterday is the worst example ever. Surely it’s a provable technical error that the FA have to acknowledge and apologise for? Cold comfort I know.

 

[Nick]

How do they decide how long they look into things? Sometimes they spent half a second checking, sometimes 5 minutes. Sometimes they will look back in the lead up for anything they can find to disallow it, sometimes they don't.

Why didn't the ref get to have a look back again?

I reckon Onana waving his hands about would have played on their mind a bit as well.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

How do they decide how long they look into things? Sometimes they spent half a second checking, sometimes 5 minutes. Sometimes they will look back in the lead up for anything they can find to disallow it, sometimes they don't.

Why didn't the ref get to have a look back again?

I reckon Onana waving his hands about would have played on their mind a bit as well.

That's what I said, allowing some geek 200 miles away on a computer to cancel it, ref, lino, 4th official saw nothing wrong, against Wolves it took ages why so quick with this

 

[Nick]

That's what I said, allowing some geek 200 miles away on a computer to cancel it, ref, lino, 4th official saw nothing wrong, against Wolves it took ages why so quick with this

Probably because sometimes they try so hard to rule things out and others they don't.

 

[Nick]

They used a frame that wasn't when it actually left O'Hares foot.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

I'd love it if Doug took it further, not to change the result but to change the rules of VAR

 

[Evo1883]

In the lead up to the chance that led to the McGuire corner, was Dalot off side? He looked well off.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

He was massively off and I called it in the thread .. lino not flagging incase its a goal and they can review , obviously a corner is a different phase and deemed not fit to go back to look .. the way we use VAR Is flawed

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

VAR = match fixing. It's that simple .

The FA cup final will be a huge turn off now. Many neutrals won't watch it .
The exit of Coventry City spells the end of the FA cup this season .

 

[clint van damme]

What I'd use to overhaul VAR

 

[Calista]

They used a frame that wasn't when it actually left O'Hares foot.

I think that's how they always do it (moment of striking the ball rather than when it's left the foot). That normally favours the attacker because they are the ones running faster towards goal, but in this case it favoured the United defender.

The issue yesterday was drawing the line in the wrong place.

 

[chiefdave]

Cricket works well when the marginal decisions given not out by the umpire are never over-ruled but left as umpire's call to reflect a margin of error. Yesterday was a true umpire's call as it wasn't given on-field

Same in NHL ice hockey. To overrule a call on the ice the video review has to show conclusive evidence.

 

[Grendel]

Same in NHL ice hockey. To overrule a call on the ice the video review has to show conclusive evidence.

Exactly the opposite is true in cricket - the umpire leaves it totally to technology

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Watched the BBC highlights last night and surprised none of the pundits really questioned it. Apparently not on the live coverage either ? At very best it was highly marginal

Doesn’t really suit their narrative though… Keane was wallowing in how far ‘his’ club had fallen.

Imagine the coverage and fixation on VAR had it been Saturday’s game or Man U scored the goal?

Trying not to be tin foil hat man btw, it was convenient timing to bring out the measuring sticks and magnifying glasses.

Release the audio and show us how that decision came to be made.

 

[chiefdave]

Exactly the opposite is true in cricket - the umpire leaves it totally to technology

Cricket has umpires call because there are decisions that are too close to decide with the limitations of the technology so they don't overrule the decision on the field.

 

[shmmeee]

I want to hear the audio and see the line drawing process.

But ultimately these are the same arguments we’d be having with not VAR and have been having all season (Southampton handballs anyone?), except it seems the VAR calls piss the average fan off far more as they’re supposed to be more accurate but they get just as much wrong.

Bin the whole thing off and go back to the on field refs with at most a fourth official watching for anything blatantly obvious or where the ref wants to view a replay.

 

[Grendel]

Cricket has umpires call because there are decisions that are too close to decide with the limitations of the technology so they don't overrule the decision on the field.

Name the last time an umpire gave a run out or stumping without referring to the third umpire

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

I want to hear the audio and see the line drawing process.

But ultimately these are the same arguments we’d be having with not VAR and have been having all season (Southampton handballs anyone?), except it seems the VAR calls piss the average fan off far more as they’re supposed to be more accurate but they get just as much wrong.

Bin the whole thing off and go back to the on field refs with at most a fourth official watching for anything blatantly obvious or where the ref wants to view a replay.

If its used for goals over the line, bad fouls or ridiculous offsides then yes use var, o radio 2 earlier it was discussed calling it VaR light

 

[Ricketts]

A few years down the line we will find it is all linked to the millions staked on online betting.

corrupt as fuck

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But none of these decisions are actually “pretty obvious”, or “common sense”, or “very simple really”, are they? They’re complex and incredibly fast decisions being made in real time by humans, that are impossible to decide without someone disagreeing and getting upset. Even with slomo, replays, 3D mapping, whatever you want to use - reasonable people will disagree when it’s actual people making the decisions.

You claim that technology can actually take away all the uncertainty and the nuance - you’re really just asking someone else to make the same human, flawed decision in front of their computer instead of on the pitch. You’re just outsourcing people’s inevitable anger at decisions to people further and further away from the game itself, slowing the game down more and more, changing the rules bit by bit. Are you happy with the results?

Actually the only people claiming that are the ones saying that we can give fact based accurate offsides with no degree of uncertainty

 

[Sick Boy]

Don’t think there’s any place for var , go back to the ref and linesman doing their jobs

I think I agree with this but unfortunately it’s not going anywhere now, especially with the amount of money involved in the game.

 

[clint van damme]

Doesn’t really suit their narrative though… Keane was wallowing in how far ‘his’ club had fallen.

Imagine the coverage and fixation on VAR had it been Saturday’s game or Man U scored the goal?

Trying not to be tin foil hat man btw, it was convenient timing to bring out the measuring sticks and magnifying glasses.

Release the audio and show us how that decision came to be made.

Which ties in to what I said, that desicion goes the other way against united and the scrutiny level is ramped up 10 notches, I can't help but think it plays into the decision making, even if sub consciously.

 

[Sick Boy]

A few years down the line we will find it is all linked to the millions staked on online betting.

corrupt as fuck

It’s hard not to believe it’s corrupt at this point but we’d not have got the penalty if that was the case.

 

[shmmeee]

There’s a genuinely a market gap for a league like the Championship to make proper football their brand. Sensible rules, no tech, FFP, whatever. The international/PL game is drifting so far from what anyone involved in the game in a real sense wants.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Probably because sometimes they try so hard to rule things out and others they don't.

Thanks the pic that’s compelling
What are the lines like for that one

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Name the last time an umpire gave a run out or stumping without referring to the third umpire

They normally give a soft signal don’t they

 

[Sick Boy]

There’s a genuinely a market gap for a league like the Championship to make proper football their brand. Sensible rules, no tech, FFP, whatever. The international/PL game is drifting so far from what anyone involved in the game in a real sense wants.

To be fair though, a lot of posts on here are dedicated to unjust decisions from the refs.

 

[Grendel]

They normally give a soft signal don’t they

They hand over responsibility to the third umpire even when it’s obviously in.

In other words they opt out in case they are wrong, no assistant is ever making a decision that tight when someone does it for them

 

[blunted]

You can stick VAR up your arse is my go to song now.
Big clubs have always got the majority of the controversial decisions and nothing has changed with VAR.
Really doesn't look offside when the ball left O'Hares boot.

 

[shmmeee]

To be fair though, a lot of posts on here are dedicated to unjust decisions from the refs.

It’s seen as part of the game though. You call the ref shit and move on. It’s the illusion of infallibility that’s the issue.

 

[Grendel]

It’s seen as part of the game though. You call the ref shit and move on. It’s the illusion of infallibility that’s the issue.

Loads on here wanted VAR against Southampton