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USSR invades Ukraine. (14 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,471
shmmeee said:
Because NATO doesn’t want war and thought it could do it without. They 100% want to shift the balance, but Russia has shown they’re a million miles from military capability to do so. The Chinese economy is fucked and the last thing they need is a trade war with the west. Their army has basically never fought in anger. The idea of WW3 is the preserve of weird old men with too much interest in military history who believe China and Russia are some great military superpowers.
Click to expand...
In that case, why aren’t those funding Ukraine sending in troops? If there’s no risk of WW3, what’s the issue?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,472
Sick Boy said:
In that case, why aren’t those funding Ukraine sending in troops? If there’s no risk of WW3, what’s the issue?
Click to expand...

Indeed
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,473
Sick Boy said:
In that case, why aren’t those funding Ukraine sending in troops? If there’s no risk of WW3, what’s the issue?
Click to expand...

Surely you can see the difference between sending arms/aid and sending in soldiers to be killed?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,474
Sick Boy said:
Read that earlier and it’s grim but unfortunately the only way Ukraine will get Russia out is with western support on the ground, which won’t happen.
Click to expand...
Naive to think that no,there'll always be a member of Eton dreaming of charging down the step?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,475
PVA said:
Surely you can see the difference between sending arms/aid and sending in soldiers to be killed?
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If there’s no risk of it sparking a wider conflict, surely it makes sense for the USA and its allies to crush Russia and restore Ukraine’s territories.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,476
Sick Boy said:
If there’s no risk of it sparking a wider conflict, surely it makes sense for the USA and its allies to crush Russia and restore Ukraine’s territories.
Click to expand...

Better to do it without having any Americans killed though, which is exactly what they were doing until the Republicans shat their pants.
 
Reactions: Grendel and SIR ERNIE
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,477
Only when the increasingly found out Yank's say so!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,478
PVA said:
Better to do it without having any Americans killed though, which is exactly what they were doing until the Republicans shat their pants.
Click to expand...

You are really making a nonsense of your own argument here
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,479
PVA said:
Better to do it without having any Americans killed though, which is exactly what they were doing until the Republicans shat their pants.
Click to expand...
What about the ambassador who was hounded out of it a couple of year's before it all kicked off, don't find that questionable,or see it as Trump aligning with his mate so he can focus his energy on Europe?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,480
Grendel said:
You are really making a nonsense of your own argument here
Click to expand...

The US were crippling one of their main adversary's army without losing a man, without having to declare war, just by sending over a load of outdated (to them) kit.

Why would they risk all that by putting boots on the ground?
 
Reactions: duffer

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,481
PVA said:
The US were crippling one of their main adversary's army without losing a man, without having to declare war, just by sending over a load of outdated (to them) kit.

Why would they risk all that by putting boots on the ground?
Click to expand...
It was hardly crippling them, the whole thing was just a stalemate, especially as the counter-offensive failed.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,482
Sick Boy said:
It was hardly crippling them, the whole thing was just a stalemate, especially as the counter-offensive failed.
Click to expand...

Of course it was. We're over 2 years into a 3 day war in which time they've lost:

Over 300,000 men
Goodness knows how many thousands of tanks
Half of their black sea fleet, including the flagship of that fleet, to a country with no navy
Lost more men taking one small town in 4 months than they did in 10 years of the Soviet afghan war

That is not sustainable.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,483
PVA said:
Of course it was. We're over 2 years into a 3 day war in which time they've lost:

Over 300,000 men
Goodness knows how many thousands of tanks
Half of their black sea fleet, including the flagship of that fleet, to a country with no navy
Lost more men taking one small town in 4 months than they did in 10 years of the Soviet afghan war

That is not sustainable.
Click to expand...
And yet the war is still ongoing and Russia has the upper-hand. At this point it is just going to capture more territory and and turn Ukraine into a wasteland.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,484
Sick Boy said:
And yet the war is still ongoing and Russia has the upper-hand. At this point it is just going to capture more territory and and turn Ukraine into a wasteland.
Click to expand...

I said it *was* being crippled.

And Russia has the upper hand purely because US support has dried up. There is a direct correlation.
 
Reactions: duffer

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,485
PVA said:
I said it *was* being crippled.

And Russia has the upper hand purely because US support has dried up. There is a direct correlation.
Click to expand...
…you were using it for a reason as to why they wouldn’t put boots on the ground now. Even when funding was in place it was nothing other than a stalemate that neither side was going to win.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,486
PVA said:
I said it *was* being crippled.

And Russia has the upper hand purely because US support has dried up. There is a direct correlation.
Click to expand...
Nothings by accident, this is American policy!
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,487
wingy said:
Nothings by accident, this is American policy!
Click to expand...
I imagine there’s reluctance after seeing what happened with the counter-offensive. Obviously they’re not going to openly say it.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 10, 2024
  • #8,488
Sick Boy said:
…you were using it for a reason as to why they wouldn’t put boots on the ground now. Even when funding was in place it was nothing other than a stalemate that neither side was going to win.
Click to expand...

A stalemate which was unsustainable for the attacking side taking hugely disproportionate losses.

With funding in place the Russian army was being crippled. Even if it was a stalemate in ground it was not a stalemate in losses, that's what you don't seem to understand.

Without funding they can advance.

This is on Trump and his loyal arse sniffers.
 
Reactions: Flying Fokker and Grendel
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2024
  • #8,489
There's been a lot more of this sort of rhetoric in the last week or so. Europe seems to be finally waking up to what's happening.

Shame we've missed the best chance to drive Russia out of Ukraine (largely thanks to the Republicans, not the EU of course)


EU leaders urged to put economies ‘on war footing’ at Ukraine negotiations

Prime ministers to examine plans to confiscate billions of euros in interest from frozen Russian assets and send the money to Kyiv
amp.theguardian.com
 
Reactions: djr8369 and duffer
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2024
  • #8,490
No
Sick Boy said:
In that case, why aren’t those funding Ukraine sending in troops? If there’s no risk of WW3, what’s the issue?
Click to expand...
You can surely see things could escalate without it turning to WW3? Putin is constantly being quoted saying he’ll escalate things and take revenge on any country that puts boots on the ground, not to mention the political ramifications back home of any leader who sends their soldiers to die.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2024
  • #8,491
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2024
  • #8,492
Sick Boy said:
…you were using it for a reason as to why they wouldn’t put boots on the ground now. Even when funding was in place it was nothing other than a stalemate that neither side was going to win.
Click to expand...

It obviously wasn't a stalemate until the Russians pulled back and then had time to dig in. If the West had been willing to provide F-16s and long range ordnance from the start, that might not have happened.

As for the situation now, Ukraine isn't asking for NATO troops, just for enough weapons and ammunition to continue the fight themselves.

Ukraine has already "won" to some degree, given the fact that there's not a puppet Government in Kyiv right now. What they're asking for now is sufficient support to defend what they hold and inflict as much damage as possible on their invaders.

You could reasonably argue that the quickest way to end this could be to give Ukraine as much material support as it asks for. Long range ordnance, aircraft, and ammunition, inevitably makes it considerably more painful for Russia to press on or even keep what they've got.

Putin might want to keep going, but sooner or later the poor bastards on the front line and their families won't. If Ukraine has to negotiate a peace, they need to be able to do so from a position of relative strength.
 
Reactions: RedSalmon, CCFCSteve, Macca1987 and 1 other person

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,493
So, the last 5 mins make for chilling listening.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,494
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,495

Russia preparing 100,000 soldiers for major offensive as Kremlin says it is ‘at war’

Russia is amassing a new force of 100,000 troops for a potential summer offensive, the commander of Ukraine’s ground forces warned on Friday.
uk.yahoo.com

Islamic State claims Moscow concert hall attack

Islamic State claimed responsibility on Friday for a deadly attack that saw gunmen in combat gear burst into a concert hall in Moscow, spraying bullets into the crowd and throwing explosives.
uk.news.yahoo.com
 
Last edited: Mar 22, 2024
X

xcraigx

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,496
It wouldn't be the first time Putin has orchestrated a false flag on his own people. Sounds like dozens have been killed.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,497
Early reports sound absolutely horrendous
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,498
Flying Fokker said:
Click to expand...
It's not really worth me spending the weekend putting in some new fence posts then..
 
Reactions: wingy and Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,499
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
It's not really worth me spending the weekend putting in some new fence posts then..
Click to expand...
If you’re on your own, maybe you’re right. Otherwise, keep to plan.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,500
What vote did they veto today and why?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,501
wingy said:
What vote did they veto today and why?
Click to expand...
In the UN? It was on a ceasefire in Gaza and Russia and China either abstained or voted against it, which I think ultimately leads to the same result in UN votes IIRC.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,502
skybluetony176 said:
In the UN? It was on a ceasefire in Gaza and Russia and China either abstained or voted against it, which I think ultimately leads to the same result in UN votes IIRC.
Click to expand...
Yeah it was more what was the actual vote about really? Did it have conditional clauses of any type?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,503
wingy said:
Yeah it was more what was the actual vote about really? Did it have conditional clauses of any type?
Click to expand...

Yes - hostage releases
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,504
There’d been rumours about dissidents working within Russia, not sure it’ll be a false flag operation. The initial reports coming out about it sound horrendous.

Didn’t the USA issue terror warnings for Moscow relatively recently too?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 22, 2024
  • #8,505
Ukraine already declaring it a false flag. Very early, so either they know it was or they just preempting Russia calling it.

Теракт у Москві - спланована і свідома провокація російських спецслужб за вказівкою Путіна. Її мета - виправдання ще більш жорстких ударів по Україні та тотальної мобілізації на росії.

gur.gov.ua
 
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