USSR invades Ukraine. (2 Viewers)

duffer

Well-Known Member
It’s looking increasingly unlikely that’s going to happen. It’s inevitable that there will be some kind of settlement - unfortunately for Ukraine it’s out their hands due to reliance on the West.

There's always some kind of settlement at the end of a conflict, the key thing is on whose terms.

It's not exactly out of Ukraine's hands, they're clearly willing to fight on against what they see as a threat to their existence as a sovereign democracy.

They could fight more effectively and have a better chance of a settlement on their terms if the West offered greater support, of course.

This war won't end just because the US gets cold feet though, it'll just become longer, more brutal, more savage, and with an even higher cost to both innocent civilians and combatants.

Ukraine isn't going to quit fighting for its survival, and Putin isn't going to stop until it becomes too painful to continue. That much must surely be obvious by now.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
As would defeating Russia so that they aren't replaced by an even more corrupt government!

They would be owned by the US
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
There's always some kind of settlement at the end of a conflict, the key thing is on whose terms.

It's not exactly out of Ukraine's hands, they're clearly willing to fight on against what they see as a threat to their existence as a sovereign democracy.

They could fight more effectively and have a better chance of a settlement on their terms if the West offered greater support, of course.

This war won't end just because the US gets cold feet though, it'll just become longer, more brutal, more savage, and with an even higher cost to both innocent civilians and combatants.

Ukraine isn't going to quit fighting for its survival, and Putin isn't going to stop until it becomes too painful to continue. That much must surely be obvious by now.

Putin will never stop and the more Western involvement the greater their peoples resolve will be. The biggest fear for Russians is a more western leaning leader than Putin
 

SBT

Well-Known Member
Why not? Are there rules that must be obeyed
Not at all. I just think the choice of venue for his Very Serious Concerns about Ukraine’s EU accession may tell us more about his general sympathies than he’s willing to admit.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Not at all. I just think the choice of venue for his Very Serious Concerns about Ukraine’s EU accession may tell us more about his general sympathies than he’s willing to admit.

Why? He lives in the EU and is a firm supporter of the Union. I doubt many people would want a basket case like Ukraine fast tracked into the group just for political aims.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Kowtowing to the US or wiped off the map. Hmm yes, difficult choice.

Oh so you don’t value Ukrainian independence at all but see it’s future as a puppet state funded and owned by the US - that’s actually some admission
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Oh so you don’t value Ukrainian independence at all but see it’s future as a puppet state funded and owned by the US - that’s actually some admission

And you accuse others of making childlike arguments. Fuck me.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Not at all. I just think the choice of venue for his Very Serious Concerns about Ukraine’s EU accession may tell us more about his general sympathies than he’s willing to admit.
Ridiculous.
How does having concerns about Ukraine being fast-tracked into the EU equate with having sympathies for Russia?
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
And you accuse others of making childlike arguments. Fuck me.

With respect presenting the option of Kowtowing to the US or being wiped of the planet as the two binary choices is hardly a credible debate is it?
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
The MAGA clowns probably think that US soldiers are woke traitors (they do celebrate pride after all) and part of the new world order and see Putin and his allies as MAGA allies so it was fair game. I know it sounds like I’m being flippant but there’s a video going around of MAGA supporters at Trump rallies saying they’d rather live under an invading Putin dictatorship than Biden. It’s like the BUF being pro Nazi in WW2 hoping that the UK would lose so they could be a Nazi Vichy government.
As an ex-serviceman I was browsing a military forum this week to see what people’s views were on some of the recent comments by generals on our military numbers and funding.

There were MAGA tainted Brexit supporting clowns claiming that the British government wants to turn the UK into and Islamic state so why bother turning up if you were conscripted, we’d be better off under Russian rule as they have Christian values.

You’d hope it was Russian bots but the accounts weren’t throwaways and the posts had plenty of likes…

Putins hybrid war seems to be working. Look at some of the brain dead whataboutism in this thread. Liberal democracy is in serious trouble.

Cue, “yeah well do you trust the yanks after Vietnam!?”
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
As an ex-serviceman I was browsing a military forum this week to see what people’s views were on some of the recent comments by generals on our military numbers and funding.

There were MAGA tainted Brexit supporting clowns claiming that the British government wants to turn the UK into and Islamic state so why bother turning up if you were conscripted, we’d be better off under Russian rule as they have Christian values.

You’d hope it was Russian bots but the accounts weren’t throwaways and the posts had plenty of likes…

Putins hybrid war seems to be working. Look at some of the brain dead whataboutism in this thread. Liberal democracy is in serious trouble.

Cue, “yeah well do you trust the yanks after Vietnam!?”
Careful, I made the same point was marked down as a Putin lover.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
As an ex-serviceman I was browsing a military forum this week to see what people’s views were on some of the recent comments by generals on our military numbers and funding.

There were MAGA tainted Brexit supporting clowns claiming that the British government wants to turn the UK into and Islamic state so why bother turning up if you were conscripted, we’d be better off under Russian rule as they have Christian values.

You’d hope it was Russian bots but the accounts weren’t throwaways and the posts had plenty of likes…

Putins hybrid war seems to be working. Look at some of the brain dead whataboutism in this thread. Liberal democracy is in serious trouble.

Cue, “yeah well do you trust the yanks after Vietnam!?”

The issue really is very simple.

Do you consider Russia a military threat to the West or not. I don’t.


If you look at my posting history on here there is numerous occasions when I have scoffed at the idea that a puffed up gangster like Putin and his weakened economy could ever - in reality - re-enact the Cold War and start to control former Soviet States.

It can’t and he is no threat. Ukraine given it’s history is always a powder keg especially when the democratically elected president was removed in 2013 I believe - and Russian language in the eastern states was banned.

This is a faded superstate having its day.

Russia is no threat. China is the ultimate threat and clearly the US potential escalation of involvement in the Middle East is of far more concern

I am more concerned about the US and it’s policy actions than the Keystone Cops of Moscow. Their days are long gone.

Our involvement in this squabble is pointless and the understanding of Russian thinking (by which I mean it’s population) is utterly misguided and ignorant.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Erm. You do realise that when he says 'braindead whataboutism' he's talking about you and Sick Boy?

It was a good post and I agree with every word of it, of course I liked it.
You labelled me a Putin fanboy for suggesting his strategy at diving the West was effective.

Everything is always black and white with you.

The laughable thing is that I’d wager I’ve been personally affected more than most of on here by actions in that part of the world.
 

SBT

Well-Known Member
Ridiculous.
How does having concerns about Ukraine being fast-tracked into the EU equate with having sympathies for Russia?
I have the same concerns about Ukrainian corruption and its EU ambitions, but they wouldn’t change my stance on support for Ukraine against Russian invasion, so I wouldn’t post about them in this thread. Choosing to do so suggests to me that you see more of a link between the two stories, but you can tell me if I’m off base there.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
You labelled me a Putin fanboy for suggesting his strategy at diving the West was effective.

Everything is always black and white with you.

The laughable thing is that I’d wager I’ve been personally affected more than most of on here by actions in that part of the world.

No, I think I called you that for labelling Putin a genius, when he's wrecked his country for years to come. Not that he'll be around to suffer the consequences.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
No, I think I called you that for labelling Putin a genius, when he's wrecked his country for years to come. Not that he'll be around to suffer the consequences.
Can you share a post where I’ve labelled Putin a genius? I can show you one where I called him a c**t, if you like?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
No, I think I called you that for labelling Putin a genius, when he's wrecked his country for years to come. Not that he'll be around to suffer the consequences.

Gorbachov wrecked Russia far more than Putin ever will
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
No, I think I called you that for labelling Putin a genius, when he's wrecked his country for years to come. Not that he'll be around to suffer the consequences.

You really have zero idea about Russia and its stoicism and patriotism do you?
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
The issue really is very simple.

Do you consider Russia a military threat to the West or not. I don’t.


If you look at my posting history on here there is numerous occasions when I have scoffed at the idea that a puffed up gangster like Putin and his weakened economy could ever - in reality - re-enact the Cold War and start to control former Soviet States.

It can’t and he is no threat. Ukraine given it’s history is always a powder keg especially when the democratically elected president was removed in 2013 I believe - and Russian language in the eastern states was banned.

This is a faded superstate having its day.

Russia is no threat. China is the ultimate threat and clearly the US potential escalation of involvement in the Middle East is of far more concern

I am more concerned about the US and it’s policy actions than the Keystone Cops of Moscow. Their days are long gone.

Our involvement in this squabble is pointless and the understanding of Russian thinking (by which I mean it’s population) is utterly misguided and ignorant.
I don’t disagree with most of that but the one point I do disagree with is that it’s a binary choice between is Russia a threat to the West, yes or no.

The most likely scenario, which most people seem to be worried about, is not that Putin will wage full scale war on the west but that he will gradually claw back parts of the former soviet states, bit by bit, over a period of years. This is something that is literally in process.

It wouldn’t take much for that to start to bubble over and pull in more and more countries in and conflict start to spread. It’s better (and cheaper) for everyone if this is nipped in the bud sooner rather than later.

The Middle East and China are absolutely as dangerous or more so but that doesn’t mean we should let Russia waltz through Ukraine. If anything, letting it go on emboldens China to do something like take Taiwan. The implications on the global financial system to China seizing such a large portion of the world semi-conductor manufacturing ability are of Covid magnitude.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Can you share a post where I’ve labelled Putin a genius? I can show you one where I called him a c**t, if you like?

You said he's played a blinder and shifted the balance of power to the east.

Blinder
British, informal : something dazzlingly excellent or remarkable
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
You said he's played a blinder and shifted the balance of power to the east.

Blinder
British, informal : something dazzlingly excellent or remarkable
Christ. Not even sure where to begin with this.

I think I said we're at the very start of a global shift in power with the American-led western dominance slowly starting to end. To put it in black and white, this will likely be a very slow process that will take decades and we're seeing countries outside of the West forming alliances to swift the balance of power.

From a Russian/Putin perspective, the misinformation and attempts at dividing the West, especially Europe, have been highly effective. To make it really clear for you, that doesn't mean I support the objectives of what they've done and are trying to do.
 

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
The issue really is very simple.

Do you consider Russia a military threat to the West or not. I don’t.


If you look at my posting history on here there is numerous occasions when I have scoffed at the idea that a puffed up gangster like Putin and his weakened economy could ever - in reality - re-enact the Cold War and start to control former Soviet States.

It can’t and he is no threat. Ukraine given it’s history is always a powder keg especially when the democratically elected president was removed in 2013 I believe - and Russian language in the eastern states was banned.

This is a faded superstate having its day.

Russia is no threat. China is the ultimate threat and clearly the US potential escalation of involvement in the Middle East is of far more concern

I am more concerned about the US and it’s policy actions than the Keystone Cops of Moscow. Their days are long gone.

Our involvement in this squabble is pointless and the understanding of Russian thinking (by which I mean it’s population) is utterly misguided and ignorant.
It is funny that you think you have a unique insight into the thinking of the whole population of Russia.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
To make it really clear for you, that doesn't mean I support the objectives of what they've done and are trying to do.

I didn't call him a genius, I just called him remarkably excellent!

As for that last comment, you've got a really funny way of showing it.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
It is funny that you think you have a unique insight into the thinking of the whole population of Russia.

He claims polls of Ukrainians are worthless because they don't speak for every single Ukrainian, whilst claiming to have a thorough understanding of how every single Russian person thinks.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree with most of that but the one point I do disagree with is that it’s a binary choice between is Russia a threat to the West, yes or no.

The most likely scenario, which most people seem to be worried about, is not that Putin will wage full scale war on the west but that he will gradually claw back parts of the former soviet states, bit by bit, over a period of years. This is something that is literally in process.

It wouldn’t take much for that to start to bubble over and pull in more and more countries in and conflict start to spread. It’s better (and cheaper) for everyone if this is nipped in the bud sooner rather than later.

The Middle East and China are absolutely as dangerous or more so but that doesn’t mean we should let Russia waltz through Ukraine. If anything, letting it go on emboldens China to do something like take Taiwan. The implications on the global financial system to China seizing such a large portion of the world semi-conductor manufacturing ability are of Covid magnitude.
I think that's where I'm at. I'm uncomfortable with the whole thing, but probably on balance I see resistance now as the least bad option, even though in isolation I'm not convinced.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
As an ex-serviceman I was browsing a military forum this week to see what people’s views were on some of the recent comments by generals on our military numbers and funding.

There were MAGA tainted Brexit supporting clowns claiming that the British government wants to turn the UK into and Islamic state so why bother turning up if you were conscripted, we’d be better off under Russian rule as they have Christian values.

You’d hope it was Russian bots but the accounts weren’t throwaways and the posts had plenty of likes…

Putins hybrid war seems to be working. Look at some of the brain dead whataboutism in this thread. Liberal democracy is in serious trouble.

Cue, “yeah well do you trust the yanks after Vietnam!?”
It doesn’t surprise me. I recall when Russia was massing its forces on the Ukrainian border ahead of its attempted full invasion. The British forces held an LGBTQ day and no end of people including so called right wing commentators and wannabe politicians pointing to Russia saying look at them, they’re not having a day to celebrate LGBTQ, that’s how a military should operate. Just before they got their arses handed to them on a plate by an ill prepared Ukraine making Molotov cocktails in the street expecting a guerrilla warfare. Their was no shortage of people in this country salivating at the prospect of Russia having a quick decisive victory showing the woke west how it’s done.

Ironically I was reading an article the other day how LGBTQ Ukrainian soldiers fighting on the front line is playing a part in seeing a shift in Ukraine on opinions of the LGBTQ community. Gay soldiers in Ukraine even have their own insignia, a unicorn IIRC.
 

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
It doesn’t surprise me. I recall when Russia was massing its forces on the Ukrainian border ahead of its attempted full invasion. The British forces held an LGBTQ day and no end of people including so called right wing commentators and wannabe politicians pointing to Russia saying look at them, they’re not having a day to celebrate LGBTQ, that’s how a military should operate. Just before they got their arses handed to them on a plate by an ill prepared Ukraine making Molotov cocktails in the street expecting a guerrilla warfare. Their was no shortage of people in this country salivating at the prospect of Russia having a quick decisive victory showing the woke west how it’s done.

Ironically I was reading an article the other day how LGBTQ Ukrainian soldiers fighting on the front line is playing a part in seeing a shift in Ukraine on opinions of the LGBTQ community. Gay soldiers in Ukraine even have their own insignia, a unicorn IIRC.
Me thinks conscription would not work. Interestingly, one of my nieces was in tears at the prospect of being called up. I can’t imagine any of the under 30’s volunteering for war. But they risk their own freedoms by refusing. Not that Putin would worry about that. Most would step back a few feet. Our society is diverse. Many people in this demographic hold different core values to their great, great grandparents generation.

I guess most of the West would be the same. Our message to Putin will therefore be something along the lines of ‘hit me, I’m not going to hit back.’
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
The brass neck on this c**t


The Ukrainian armed forces are shelling civilians to take the focus off the failure of their counteroffensive and provoke Russia into tit-for-tat actions, Incumbent Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is up for re-election, said at a meeting with his election campaign activists.

"One can still ponder why they have been shelling peaceful cities and towns. There are several objectives, which are to divert the attention of their own population and sponsors from the failures of the so-called counteroffensive and to show that they can to do something, to provoke us into tit-for-tat actions in order to hit civilian and peaceful targets on the territory of Ukraine," he said.

Putin pointed out that no matter how you look at it, this is a crime.

"What do we do? We use long-range precision weapons to hit infrastructure - first and foremost, military infrastructure, as well as the military industry. They want to provoke us into retaliating, I think so. You can imagine why they are doing this. Although it is undoubtedly a crime. A bloody crime," he stressed.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Anyway.

This is good news



Great for the funeral pyres in Ukraine

Death and misery really excites you doesn’t it?
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Interesting that Schapps introduced this into the dialogue of the nation just like they dreamt of with the Eton posh boys begging for it get ready to lose the election!
 

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